the illusion of utopia equality or end of hierarchy

[diamondpenguin]

@electroBeam how can you leave your body if you already are your body and everything around it? Wouldn't you just fully merge with what you already are? 

[The observer]

@Leo Gura @electroBeam in other words physical death is the ultimate truth and love. interesting thought that comes to mind is that then whats the point of talking about it and working towards it? isnt this act itself hypocritical since it will eventually happen to every one and not only the seeking?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, The observer said:

@Leo Gura @electroBeam in other words physical death is the ultimate truth and love. interesting thought that comes to mind is that then whats the point of talking about it and working towards it? isnt this act itself hypocritical since it will eventually happen to every one and not only the seeking?

There is a point in becoming more conscious as it improves life.

Also, just because death happens to the body does not automatically mean you stay in Infinite Love forever. You may still not be ready for that and reincarnate as a Nazi or something.

Infinite Love is the ulitmate destination, but how long it takes you to get there is up to you. Maybe you'll need 100 lifetimes.

[electroBeam]

6 minutes ago, diamondpenguin said:

@electroBeam how can you leave your body if you already are your body and everything around it? Wouldn't you just fully merge with what you already are? 

But you're not the body and everything around it.

There's no such thing as a body and everything around it. We are all pretending there's a body and everything around it. 

Contemplate what a body is. Find evidence it exists. Do that for every object, both physical and metaphysical. 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by electroBeam

[electroBeam]

@The observer Have you got anything better to do?

[Harikrishnan]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a point in becoming more conscious as it improves life.

Also, just because death happens to the body does not automatically mean you stay in Infinite Love forever. You may still not be ready for that and reincarnate as a Nazi or something.

Infinite Love is the ulitmate destination, but how long it takes you to get there is up to you. Maybe you'll need 100 lifetimes.

@Leo Gura you in other post,  soon after coming from healing said reincarnation is imagination. And people who says about past life are not fully enlightened 

[The observer]

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@The observer

 

Sorry if my message came across like that and it’s nothing to do with being like me, each being is a unique expression of the absolute. And if everyone was like me the world would be a disaster. 
 

haha no dude it wasnt ur message but a way of explaining my point by implying ideology 

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@The observer

 

 

What I am talking about is more and more people realising absolute truth, becoming more conscious and developing further etc, nothing to do with me, as it’s simply consciousness becoming conscious of itself. 
 

i explained in my opening post why becoming conscious doesnt help and i repeat here b cuz it does not automatically change the world nor suddenly neither gradually. b cuz theres desire that needs to be got rid of and theres programming ie karma that needs to be worked through but these two things are opposites if u want to maintain the system. however if u want to merge them u have to leave the system entirely and go live in a cave and basically every one has to do the same thing for that to happen but thats not realistic b cuz ppl are not conscious enough to consider that and also theyre addicted to and dependent on the system and also most ppl wont intuit that it will be rewarding so that is that. so if ppl completely left their lives and went to meditate in caves that would make a utopia like im describing 

but lets assume all ppl wanted to pursue god and purify them selves it still wouldnt happen b cuz they would have to leave the system collapse and no body including me and u would want that b cuz ppl want to preserve the system b cuz at the very least its serving a psychological function (addiction) let alone all other physical and what not services that are simply only possible b cuz of the system and if ppl could let go of them then that would make a utopia like the one im describing 

on the other hand if we start with working on the transcending the system by following our desires without resistance that would create a huge back lash and the human life would become more or less like a jungle until we burn through all of our karmas and theres no desire left if thats even possible (this scenario is not likely)

now u might say again that it will happen gradually one human at a time as were developing (which is obviously the most realistic trajectory tbh) but what im saying is that gradually is a infinite process and will not ever end b cuz first awakening is infinite so even if everyone awakens thats not the end and second b cuz a child is not born awake he has to go through delusion first and then transcend it in to awakening b cuz thats the nature of awakening b cuz delusion is a prerequisite for it and so the cycle goes on for ever and ever and so

also i have another hypothesis its that when some one dies his awakening goes away with him so some one else has to awaken to that truth otherwise it will be forgotten and then the loss will create a deficiency that needs to be fulfilled in order to maintain the system as it is and so until it is resolved the system will be unstable which will manifest in unconsciousness and so on. but of course ppl dont die once a day a lot of ppl die every day and thats why its never gonna be stable 

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@The observer

 

 

When the system is geared towards people actualising, living their purpose and awakening to their true being I feel society will look very different compared to when the system is geared towards creating cogs in a machine. 

I understNd your point and you’re talking about ideologies people have. As you know by now awakening isn’t an ideology, it isn’t a belief system, it is THIS. For example love isn’t something you believe in, it’s what you are. And then naturally from this place you live life from love, that’ll be very different, that’s all I’m saying. 

it wont be any different if u dont have an ideology.

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@The observer

 

Im also not saying I have all of the answers on how and when it will happen, and the exact system and how many years etc. But, as more people awaken it will change. Just like as more people developed and realised slavery was wrong, or that racism shouldn’t be the norm, or that Women should vote, etc.

from a bigger picture nothing is changing at all. but again from ur pov (desiring to end racism and to equate with women) it seems like its changing for the better when in fact its simply taking place on the expense of other things i cant even intuit but for example its like cutting down forests to build cities and thinking that the forests are not decreasing and that were only increasing luxury. bottom line is that luxury cannot increase without consequences if ur living a luxurious life some other being is definitely not and so on. u cant make every one live in luxury its just a law of life

1 hour ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@The observer

Turquoise wants what is best for humanity overall and what is best for the Planet and it’s people, you think it can’t push for political change? Not all Turquoise beings will just go and meditate on a mountain forever. 

it can but dont forget that any political change by definition hinges on ideology u cant get rid of ideology even if ur realised

sry for talking a lot thank u for taking the time to read and contribute it was a great discussion feel free to add whatever u want i will read but probably not reply cuz im done explaining my pov

Edited April 17, 2020 by The observer

[The observer]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a point in becoming more conscious as it improves life.

haha but my awakenings have shown me that improving one pov necessarily deteriorates other povs b cuz of balance ie since ur growing urself some things must die and when u die other things will grow so in a sense awakening is a selfish act haha

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Also, just because death happens to the body does not automatically mean you stay in Infinite Love forever. You may still not be ready for that and reincarnate as a Nazi or something.

Infinite Love is the ulitmate destination, but how long it takes you to get there is up to you. Maybe you'll need 100 lifetimes.

idk about that. i think its a interesting story but what i know is that right now im in infinite love and cant not be in it unless ur implying some thing else which im not aware of yet

Edited April 17, 2020 by The observer

[The observer]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

@The observer Have you got anything better to do?

better? idk but i have many things to do 

[The observer]

@Leo Gura

haha

[LfcCharlie4]

@Leo Gura @electroBeam

I would add I don't think everyone wants to 'drop the body' just yet, and as you two know it can take serious training to do so consciously. 

Therefore, for those who wish to remain living, I feel the teachers you mentioned are your best bet for this domain of life. 

Do you guys genuinely want to drop your body already? 

I feel I have a LOT of living and giving to do in this realm before that is the case, I also don't see the need to rush into it, since Infinite love is well, Infinite and all, so goes on for Infinity. 

I guess it's an individual thing and I understand why you'd want to, I mean Sadhguru's wife was like what in her 20s/30s, I think it's a knowing you have that your time in this realm is completely over. 

I recommend watching the 'Good Place' on Netflix, 1) it's funny 2) I don't think it's made with this intention, but you could see the 'Good Place' as true awakening and enjoyment of life, but after a while even this gets old, and then they essentially choose when they want to merge into infinity. I think that's the perfect metaphor for this. 

Awakening (as hard and challenging as it can be) will lead to living life in the 'Good Place' but eventually once you have lived life to the fullest, completed your mission here on this realm and feel it's time to go, that's where merging with Infinite Love& Mahasamadhi can come in, it will happen to all eventually, but it will still take 'work.' 

@Leo Gura You know yourself better than anyone, but I still feel you have decades of work left here, especially in the realm of Psyches& Spirituality and helping introduce more young people into this domain of life. I wouldn't run off into infinity before it all really gets going, that would be a bit selfish now wouldn't it  , Either way, I thank you for your teachings and this incredible forum, I'm sure you'll leave it in good hands if you do decide to leave! 

@electroBeam I don't know you that well of course, but it seems you change your mind a fair amount, is this truly what you wish to pursue? You have nothing left in life you wish to give yourself to, no contribution/ mission before you leave forever? Maybe, this is selfish of me, but if you do pursue this/ the hermit life, will you be documenting it here at all? I feel it could be very interesting. 

I'm not denying Mahasamadhi and merging with the infinite is the highest awakening, however, I feel it certainly isn't for everyone and is only for those who intuitively know it is the end of the road for them, and like I said I think it would come as a certain knowing. 

For me, that is not the case at all, who knows maybe when I'm 70 and bored of Earth, that knowing will happen, but right now I just fucking love life, and feel I have so much more to give in this realm before rushing off to Infinity

Love guys! 

[apparentlynoself]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There is a point in becoming more conscious as it improves life.

Also, just because death happens to the body does not automatically mean you stay in Infinite Love forever. You may still not be ready for that and reincarnate as a Nazi or something.

Infinite Love is the ulitmate destination, but how long it takes you to get there is up to you. Maybe you'll need 100 lifetimes.

Does the level of consciousness stay when you "die" and reincarnate in your next lifetime. 

E.g. when a hippie "dies", will he be reincarnated into something more conscious or will he be reincarnated into a nazi

[LfcCharlie4]

@apparentlynoself  Personally, I feel you don't lose your spiritual progress if you become truly awake, but ultimately is there a way to know? 

If there is I'd love to check out some resources on this! 

I know people who have claimed to contact/ channel awakened beings like Ramana, Nisgardatta etc, but could of course be BS so who knows!

[LfcCharlie4]

@Meta-Man I like this a lot, very well said my friend. 

[The observer]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You may still not be ready for that and reincarnate as a Nazi or something.

Infinite Love is the ulitmate destination, but how long it takes you to get there is up to you. Maybe you'll need 100 lifetimes.

i can intuit that this reincarnation concept is not meant to be taken literally but rather metaphorically. if u read between the lines u realize that whoever created the concept was more or less saying that u will never be able to transcend death unless u accept reality as it is right now. i strongly believe he was talking about ego death not physical death. so if u want infinite love stop waiting and just be infinite love right now. thats it!

Edited April 17, 2020 by The observer

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

@Leo Gura you in other post,  soon after coming from healing said reincarnation is imagination. And people who says about past life are not fully enlightened 

Yes, all of life is imagination.

Nothing is stopping God from imagining all sorts of lives.

2 hours ago, The observer said:

haha but my awakenings have shown me that improving one pov necessarily deteriorates other povs b cuz of balance

That's silly.

You can improve yourself and others will benefit from it.

There are many win-win situations. Life is not a zero-sum game.

1 hour ago, Meta-Man said:

You’re still talking as if you are the body. You seem to be unable to see the possibility of there not being a ‘you’ inhabiting a body. The body and life is just a movie appearing IN you. With true transcendence the body is just living on its own. You are not in it. You are infinite love choosing to dream up this world and this body. Because you want to! This world and body is an expression of infinite love. It is not apart from it. It IS it. You are not inhabiting a body!

Unity and the appearance of separate objects are one and the same thing. Duality and nonduality are One. You can transcend all dualities while the show is still running.

Yes, the body is appearing in you. But this appearance is a certain state of consciousness with certain limitations. You experience being a human but not a kangaroo, etc.

Yes, the world is an expression of infinite love, and yet there are deeper levels of infinite love in which there is no world at all because the world is still too limited for the highest levels of infinite love.

The human dream is fundamentally limiting.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Not when you realize you aren’t in it.

It's still limited as long as there is form.

When you a dreaming of being a human, this excludes the dream of being a kangaroo, a rabbit, a tree, etc. Consciousness is limited to that limited dream.

Quote

You created this world because you got bored of a blank canvas.

Maybe. But maybe now I'm bored of the limited world.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Form = formless

Of course. And yet, the highest form of love is a totally formless singularity.

[electroBeam]

7 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

The colors you paint are.

And for some, there is no desire to paint colours, because painting colours itself is so limited compared to not painting colours at all.

To paint means to limit. Limit is suffering. Its as simple as that. 

No matter what you paint, the paint is made of limited-ness fundamentally.

There's no way to paint unlimited, so the solution to painting the unlimited, is to not paint at all. 

Some people go about their life with the desire to paint the unlimited, to create something unlimited. It then finally dawns on you that to paint that means to put away the paint brush.

Edited April 17, 2020 by electroBeam

[electroBeam]

2 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Or perhaps not painting feels limited, so you paint with your infinite creativity. 

to paint with infinite creativity = no painting at all.