Ridiculously Strong Desire to abandon society

[electroBeam]

Have a question around spiral dynamics and my life.

For the past 3 months there's been a ridiculously strong desire to abandon society and live as minimally, as naturally, and as peacefully as possible.

My dreamboard progressively changed from living in a house, to living in a tent, to living in a cave. The kitchen utensils change from some kitchen utensils to ancient utensils to good old wood fire and stick. My dreamboard changed from buying groceries from a shop, to having my own garden, to eating stuff directly from nature. My business changed from a successful, highly impactful business, to a lifestyle business, to no business at all, to meditating, contemplating all day and to using occult techniques to survive like changing body temp instead of blanket and occult techniques to reduce food consumption. My alarm clock on my phone changed to waking up when the sun rises and a sun dial. My bed changed from a normal bed, to a floor.

About 2 months ago I started acting on these dream board ambitions. I bought very ancient kitchen utensils. I replaced my blender with pestle and mortar. My pots with ancient clay pots. Pans with ancient chinese pans, forks and knives with chopsticks. It doesnt make any sense logically why i did this. efficiency is suppose to be king, but I just love the simple life and I love the old way, it makes me feel good to feel the food i make on a deeper level, to touch the food. I get a whole array of feels from doing things from the ground that you dont get when you abstract it away with technology. I think the other reason I love using it is because I'm less attached to these utensils. The more manual, the less attached and need I have for external attachments.

Started sleeping on the floor and taking cold showers. Felt great, felt like I was feeling the ground and going back to the origins of life.

Started meditating and doing yoga much more. 

Reduced cravings of worldly desires, used less water, food, smaller house. 

Right now I'm living this life and absolutely love it. I feel like I finally found the life I was looking for and always was. The closer my life gets to being raw, simple, natural and meditative, the more I love it. It feels amazing to sleep on the earth, you feel like you are the earth every night, its paradise.

My god damn passion isn't to be a fucken scientist! famous artist! soccer player! engineer! fucken spiritual guru! fucken business man! No! My passion is to feel the beautiful breeze on a winter night, and to feel how its the earth and to feel the earth and planet entirely, to feel the beautiful rocky surface of my pestle and mortar as I crush my grapes and strawberries. To feel how those rocks are the earth and to connect with the whole earth through feeling it. To feel the food from my garden enter the body and to feel the body's connection and integration with the soil and plants and whole earth. To feel every sensation of the earth, as if I was the earth, from feeling the wind, to the trickles of water, the heat gazing on it, feel the feelings of all of its plants and the entire ecology of it. To feel the love and connection with the soil and earth, like the earth is my womb. To feel the rocky surface of the ground as I sleep on it. To feel the beautiful, cold and natural water of my shower(and river in the future) touch the body making me feel as if the body is a part of the earth. To meditate and feel the omnipresence of imagination and what its made of, how it works, to feel the atmosphere of the surroundings, to feel bodily sensations to the fullest, to be God, just delve into being it. To feel its love, to know everything about it. To love it and be it. Thats my fucken passion! That's what I want to master! That's what I want to be world class at!(if I need to be world class at anything). That's all I want. Just that. 

And now im looking into having my own plants and finding a sustainable way to survive off the grid.

After meditating for a while I realize that all suffering, big and small, can be healed just through awareness. You can heal sadness by placing awareness on it. All cravings and desires(not to offend the tantra boys on here, this is for me) are simply suffering, its wanting what you don't have. Be it sex, food, money, whatever. And I've really seen and accepted now that no desire will fulfill you. None. Totally accepted this to be the case. And I see now that the best way to fulfill your desire is to place awareness on it, till it dissolves, or till you realize you don't need it/already have it. And if you need extra ammo, love it. Love it to bits. Hug it and make it feel better. And I've totally seen now that for me(and me only) no type of life will ever truly fulfill me. Not a millionaire life, successful guru teacher life, none. It all suffers the same problem: you can't truly attain it. And I've fully seen now that I don't care about trying to attain it anymore. But I already know what will happen even if I do attain it. It will be a pot at the end of the rainbow. I'm just not interested anymore.

I have a strong urge to let go of all attachments: food cravings, sex and everything in between. Let go of all career goals.

At this point, unfortunately, there's no interest in helping the world or others. I wish there was, I really do. I tried Leo's life purpose course for 2 years intensely, doing it 100s of times to find that thing. But in the end, what I always wanted was to live in a cave and disconnect for a while. I hope that in the future I will find the desire or need to help others, but right now its solitary confinement and isolation in beautiful nature that I want. 

The prospect of leaving my country and living in the Himalayas is bearing on me. I don't know why, but have an urge to go there and live there for a while. Its not for enlightenment, more for the beautiful nature and connectedness. Also have an urge to learn offline yogic techniques and occult techniques.

 

The question is, and I know ultimately no one will know more about what i should do than i, and im totally aware of that, but 1 question i have is, it feels like im trying to live a stage purple life, or regress to purple LOL. 

I am concerned that by going to the himalayas I will be choosing to live in a less developed society, that will prevent me from living a very simple, nature raw, meditative life. I will be too busy fending off thieves, negotiating with other people over land, being restricted and opressed by the society there. Stage purple of blue shit. 

At the same time, while i could technically save up to buy a big patch of land in my home country and live there off the grid, due to the himalaya's spiritual energy, it seems like a cool thing to experience.

So I'm wondering what's your perspective from a spiral dynamics take on my plans for the future? Is this plan Ive got missing some key spiral dynamics understanding? I admittedly am not a student of spiral dynamics and havent really researched it beyond a few of Leo's vids, and am looking for some input from some spiral dynamics experts on here. Thanks for answering!

Edited April 12, 2020 by electroBeam

[Preety_India]

 

I think your fears of a third world country are imagined fears. 

I've personally never seen an American struggle in the city I live in, in fact they are treated above native citizens. 

I haven't personally lived in the Himalayas but it would be really cool, as of now I can't afford it, I'm sure the prices won't be low there. And I can't imagine living in a cave because I am not used to it. 

The second thing is that nature is the same everywhere, it's only that the western media always has to put a divine spin or exotic spin over something that is Asian, probably this is a cheap tourist attraction technique or because they find it super cheap so they have to find ways to exemplify their journeys to Eastern countries to a divine status, just to feel like they made it to the ethereal Lala land. It's just imaginary shit. 

Nature doesn't discriminate. It's not like the mountains in other countries are less peaceful than the Himalayas. 

And if you are worried about getting caught in third world country politics and social structure then understand that living in one won't help much with your spiritual journey, in fact it will reverse the benefits you are trying to attain. 

The ability to connect with nature is everywhere. That's why I created my journal called the ability to connect with nature because I wanted to find my own ways of connecting with nature in whatever way I can. I can't survive in nature, that's why I will have to keep working, keep doing my job to feed myself. I don't have the luxury to create my own life in the remote jungle or a mountain side. 

You don't need to leave your country in order to experience nature. The earth is everywhere. You could buy a ranch or a big patch of land, probably in the outbacks where it's greener and have your own life in peace. Nobody is gonna bother you there. 

And if this is your true purpose, then go for it, there will be challenges to that kind of living because it doesn't have the ready-made comforts of city life. 

I wouldn't call living in a remote place as Stage Purple because it's like saying I became a child because I went to Disney or I am a doctor because I am wearing an apron and stethoscope. You know what I mean. It's the aesthetic part you're clinging to.. like donning a role that you must play a certain way. It's like I need to play the role in a period drama so I immediately change the curtains and buy myself a gown and hat and change the interiors to suit that Era. It does nothing to my soul, it only changes the exterior. 

You can't be stage Purple (if that's your goal) by simply copying the lifestyle of some guru you came across. The change has to be from within also. It wouldn't suit for me to play the role of a Texan ranch owner without the Texan accent. It's not just the exterior but also the " inner," for this you need to switch your thinking and consciousness to stage purple and that's a lot of effort, hard work, beating ego resistance, basically it means true spiritual shit. Doing the actual "off the grid" work. 

I can't become Dalai Lama by simply wearing what he wears and eating what he eats. I need to be his mind also. 

You need to be deeply involved in your spiritual growth. For that you won't need the Himalayas.. You can do inner work which is mostly you changing and working on your consciousness and then adjust your life to your needs and pursuits by living in your own country and creating your own world. 

You're thinking that living in your country is not  that great or appealing because your mind is fixated on the exotic appeal of the Himalayas. Notice that this is also a desire.... "I want that, I want that, I only  want that and only that"..... It's like the inner child saying I want a pecan pie but I only  want Texas grown pecans. 

When you will focus your awareness on this unnecessary desire of you fantasizing living in a distant exotic land you will see it just  as fruitless as other desires. 

Focus more on inner work, obviously you can tune your lifestyle needs to match the life you want but it can be done in your home country as well. 

 

Remember that the earth is the same everywhere, America, Australia, India, China or Japan, it's the same everywhere. 

Your ability to connect with nature depends more on you and what you find closest to you.. 

 Best wishes on your journey. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Preety_India

[Parththakkar12]

Spiral dynamics is a model of psychological evolution which you can apply to masses of people, or the average person. You are a special case. I have never heard of someone wanting a life like you want! Models have their limitations, i.e. they can track general trends and they're used to generalize.

4 hours ago, electroBeam said:

I am concerned that by going to the himalayas I will be choosing to live in a less developed society, that will prevent me from living a very simple, nature raw, meditative life. I will be too busy fending off thieves, negotiating with other people over land, being restricted and opressed by the society there. Stage purple of blue shit. 

At the same time, while i could technically save up to buy a big patch of land in my home country and live there off the grid, due to the himalaya's spiritual energy, it seems like a cool thing to experience.

So I'm wondering what's your perspective from a spiral dynamics take on my plans for the future? Is this plan Ive got missing some key spiral dynamics understanding? I admittedly am not a student of spiral dynamics and havent really researched it beyond a few of Leo's vids, and am looking for some input from some spiral dynamics experts on here. Thanks for answering!

This sounds like a challenge you'd have from excesses of Stage Green. You sound like you're trying to run away from a system, which you'd otherwise be reliant on for survival, but you don't trust to be on your side to help you create what you want. You are trying to isolate yourself from society. Now that's an absolutely respectable preference, but if you're facing issues with this, this would be my interpretation. This is a major shadow of asceticism in general.

If you're interested, my suggestion for you would be to learn systems thinking. My hope for you is that it will help give you context to the aspects of the system you're resisting. Maybe you can learn to connect with the system and understand that it is also a part of you! This could help you create inter-dependent relationships and also give you creative power in the world.

[LfcCharlie4]

Not regards to SD here. 
 

but, follow your heart and go with whatever your heart is telling you to do, but make sure you’re in a good head space when you are deciding. 
 

Everyone is completely different awakening or no awakening. 
 

some wish to carry on a normal life (think Rupert Spira) 

 

some wish to live in their ashram forever (think Ramana) 

 

This could also change, so right now living like a monk could be what you desire more than anything, but in 5 years you may now be ready to start a family or build a business, so it’s not like you have to stick to anything forever. 
 

If you’re enjoying It, go for it man!

 

I just wanted to add, no path is right or wrong, it’s what is best for you right now and what you truly desire. Don’t do something because you “should” do that, do it because you’d love nothing more than to spend your days like that. 
 

like for me, I’m the total opposite (but I’m An Enneagram 7 which explains a lot of my tendencies) and my main focus right now is growing and building my business That helps people, because I absolutely love it, and it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. Although the motivation has “evolved” post awakening, I used to think spirituality meant an end to “normal” life but it doesn’t at all, it just means life is an expression of happiness, and no longer a search for happiness/ peace/ love etc, so do whatever you love and enjoy most right now. 
 

it seems to me you are craving solitude and complete focus on sustainable living and awakening, so go after that, document your journey it’ll be cool! 

Edited April 12, 2020 by LfcCharlie4

[electroBeam]

4 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

This sounds like a challenge you'd have from excesses of Stage Green. You sound like you're trying to run away from a system, which you'd otherwise be reliant on for survival, but you don't trust to be on your side to help you create what you want. You are trying to isolate yourself from society. Now that's an absolutely respectable preference, but if you're facing issues with this, this would be my interpretation. This is a major shadow of asceticism in general.

If you're interested, my suggestion for you would be to learn systems thinking. My hope for you is that it will help give you context to the aspects of the system you're resisting. Maybe you can learn to connect with the system and understand that it is also a part of you! This could help you create inter-dependent relationships and also give you creative power in the world.

Yeah its not that I hate society, its more it just feels 'heavy'. For the past 2 years I've had to travel to china every 2 months for work, a poor part, and don't know what it is, but I just love how 'light' it feels. In my home country its highly developed, the roads are made with lots of material, paths made with lots of concrete, there's metal everywhere, everything is super complicated, its detached from nature. Society in general is very intellectual. In China lots of houses are small, made of bamboo, simple outside markets, emeshed with nature, etc. And life is very simple. I could get into systems thinking but the point is really to live simply and with nature. 

I totally appreciate how society has solved so many security and safety issues, I just wish there was a safe society that used a lot less resources, was way less complicated, and focused more on being in nature. In places like Kathmandu for example, when I last went there, lots of people were materialistic because they were poor and had not experienced how material possession will not help them. So lots of surivival issues there.@Preety_India Yep. It was more from learning from a sadhu, but definitely agree about location not mattering. 

 

4 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Not regards to SD here. 
 

but, follow your heart and go with whatever your heart is telling you to do, but make sure you’re in a good head space when you are deciding. 
 

Everyone is completely different awakening or no awakening. 
 

some wish to carry on a normal life (think Rupert Spira) 

 

some wish to live in their ashram forever (think Ramana) 

 

This could also change, so right now living like a monk could be what you desire more than anything, but in 5 years you may now be ready to start a family or build a business, so it’s not like you have to stick to anything forever. 
 

If you’re enjoying It, go for it man!

 

I just wanted to add, no path is right or wrong, it’s what is best for you right now and what you truly desire. Don’t do something because you “should” do that, do it because you’d love nothing more than to spend your days like that. 
 

like for me, I’m the total opposite (but I’m An Enneagram 7 which explains a lot of my tendencies) and my main focus right now is growing and building my business That helps people, because I absolutely love it, and it’s something I’ve always wanted to do. Although the motivation has “evolved” post awakening, I used to think spirituality meant an end to “normal” life but it doesn’t at all, it just means life is an expression of happiness, and no longer a search for happiness/ peace/ love etc, so do whatever you love and enjoy most right now. 
 

it seems to me you are craving solitude and complete focus on sustainable living and awakening, so go after that, document your journey it’ll be cool! 

nice you're ultimately right i think!

 

[Preety_India]

@electroBeam  do you live in Australia? Just curious. 

I don't mind if you don't wish to answer. 

But if you do live in Australia, that's such an amazing place and so close to nature on all sides. I mean it's like heaven there. They have all the wonderful animals and bird and mountains and shores.. 

I'll include some Aussie animals and birds in my journal. 

They are too cute. 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Preety_India

[bejapuskas]

@electroBeam  Congratulations on your growth man, I noticed you've been making a lot of progress, I'm glad you are getting the results you want. I just wanted to point out to you - isolation from others really means connection with yourself. Don't seek disconnection, seek connection. You got it!

[Preety_India]

18 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@electroBeam  Congratulations on your growth man, I noticed you've been making a lot of progress, I'm glad you are getting the results you want. I just wanted to point out to you - isolation from others really means connection with yourself. Don't seek disconnection, seek connection. You got it!

You nailed it! 

[electroBeam]

54 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@electroBeam  do you live in Australia? Just curious. 

Yep

54 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@electroBeam . 

But if you do live in Australia, that's such an amazing place and so close to nature on all sides. I mean it's like heaven there. They have all the wonderful animals and bird and mountains and shores.. 

Yeah definitely, especially Nimbin and Byron Bay. I saw an echidna crawl up to me while meditating in the bush a few days ago but didn't take a pic They are cute animals even if they are spiky. I find that meditation seems to attract animals.

@bejapuskas definitely dude good point!

Edited April 13, 2020 by electroBeam

[remember]

@electroBeam how nice – from a designer aspect i love all of these. its exactly what it is about to start understanding. i see some similarities, although for me it’s a fascination for simple tools and a fascination about how to make every day life more simple, also yes the use of body and mind energy instead of a complex electronic object - but i wouldn’t want to miss a washing machine, a refrigerator –  the experiences of how life would feel different without all of that i think it’s worth an experience and help you settle in what you want and need and how you really want to live then afterwards - so if you feel like experiencing something like that, i’d plan a retreat, you will probably more gain from it than loose. don’t underestimate though the romantic illusion about this being even more easy - in some sense yes in my perception you are starting to experience purple with a strong drive going back to beige completely. purple and beige non ethnological materially experienced tends to have a romantisation about its idea more than about what it entails additionally.

object consciously i have had similar experiences, already years ago – born out of wish to simplify objects in every day life not only for myself but especially for others. although this was more created out of a reflection about the nature of object. i didn’t go back that far into time - i think it might be a phase were you reconnect to simplicity of life but still deny life’s hardship in a rougher environment. the contrast is sometimes harsh. maybe you really would need to experience the harshness to find the will to help others assuming then you would find a way to do so.

really grasping the subject object relationship - understanding that this solipsism thing sticks and stinks like your most basic needs. there is probably nothing better than gathering experiences - exposing yourself radically to aloneness and then maybe radically to a group experience.

Edited April 13, 2020 by remember

[bejapuskas]

@electroBeam  I tried sleeping on the ground today, you inspired me. It felt like doing yoga at the beginning, very nice, but after a while... Man, how do you do it? xDD

[PenguinPablo]

Have you considered subconscious aversions towards life it self?

A hedonist may indulge to much in life.

But a cynic that rejects everything because "I'm spiritual" is the other side of the coin. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by PenguinPablo

[remember]

@bejapuskas stable side position is a good start if it hurts at the beginning.

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, PenguinPablo said:

Have you considered subconscious aversions towards life it self?

A hedonist may indulge to much in life.

But a cynic that rejects everything because "I'm spiritual" is the other side of the coin. 

Depends of the intent.

The ego works through resistance. Its bread and butter is resistance. If you resist what IS, you create worlds, dimensions, societies, and life. 

The Truth is Love and Light. The Truth is no worlds, no separation, just IS. 

Hedonists indulge as a form of resistance. To indulge for them, means to resist Truth in favour of the rosy picture of all Joy, Love and Truth being in the Sex, Money, Fame, Food of what they seek. They create worlds by doing this, worlds of the woman or man of my dreams containing all the Truth and Love I could hope for, western science containing all the Truth and Omnipresence one needs to be happy, fame and sex containing all the Joy and Truth I need to be fulfilled.

Cynics, and fundamentalists, abstain from indulgence as a form of resistance. To abstain for them, means to resist Truth in favour of the rosy picture of what they think god and spirituality means. They create worlds by doing this, worlds of a God in the sky containing all the Love and Truth I could possibly need, Shiva yogic deities containing all the Love and Truth I could need, special Gurus containing all the Love and Truth I could need.

Both sides of the coin create worlds, worlds that cannot be realized, precisely because they are resistance to IS.

 

IS does not abstain from Sex, Money, Fame. But neither does IS indulge in Sex Money or Fame. 

IS has nothing to do with abstaining or indulging. IS, is not resisting, not creating worlds, not chasing worlds. Its a regression of both abstaining and indulging. 

For me, this regression looks like abstaining from the outside, but its simply a retreat back from creating worlds, back to BEING. In practice, that looks like an effort to not have sex, money, fame, or to indulge. But its completely different and independent. Rather, the ego has been conditioned for so long, has been in power for so long, that it resists and take control of consciousness out of instinct. To regress from worlds means to let go of the ego's need to control, need to resist. God naturally does not indulge or abstain, both of them are egoic. God does not need to abstain, but he does not need to drink wine or have sex either. Those are worldly affairs, affairs done as pretending to not BE. And creating and taking worlds seriously, confusing them for IS. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by electroBeam

[remember]

nothing does and does not matter. everything matters. not doing matters and doing also matters therefore all being matters in a certain way if that is or is not isness, it usually still matters in a certain way. everything that is will also somehow materialize in the future there is no thing which does not. even though nothing will materialize in everything in a certain way. not having done anything will matter and having done something will matter - in what way that’s what is depending on consciousness, because even ignorance matters.

Edited April 13, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

@electroBeam I have a particular doubt. 

You mentioned about your interest in both nature and the occult. Occult can mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you? 

What exactly are you looking for in the occult world and how do you decide to go about with it? 

 

[electroBeam]

32 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@electroBeam I have a particular doubt. 

You mentioned about your interest in both nature and the occult. Occult can mean different things to different people. What does it mean to you? 

What exactly are you looking for in the occult world and how do you decide to go about with it? 

 

Once consciousness raises to a certain level, different ways of perceiving the world becomes accessible at ease. Different ways of perceiving the world leads to bending the rules of the world in ways that it cannot through a traditional materialistic view. This is what I generally see as the occult. You could say its engineering on another dimension.

I haven't looked, as its not generally an interest to me, even if it does exist and leads to many possibilities. But there is undeniable suffering in the world at large from the survival of the human race. And with no particular moral intent, I wish to reduce that suffering as much as possible by bending the rules of reality to allow me to survive on less food, and cause less suffering. I have a strong urge to use as little, if any of this earth. I want to consume way less, food, natural resources for tools and equipment, house materials, etc. Its not really a logical or preemptive thing, its just a desire or something I'm drawn to doing. 

I've just heard of certain yogic techniques for living off very little food, for sleeping less, and for surviving in very cold climates by using kundalini energy to produce temperature to make the body survive, rather than consuming from the earth and making blankets and stuff. 

I don't know why, and I know it must sound very stupid and strange, but the idea of consuming less, having barely any possessions, and bring all survival back to the body (through the occult) sounds very beautiful to me. 

Maybe a way to describe it, is karma. All possessions and indulgence has a karma to it. Nothing wrong with that, but it does, and by exiling those possessions and indulgence from your life, you are purifying yourself from karma. 

If you view karma as a mental or intellectual construction and limitation, you can see how relying on blankets adds karma. The subconscious, hidden fear of the blanket being taken away from you is always there, adding suffering. You need the blanket to survive, and as survival is a source of suffering, the blanket adds suffering. The blanket also reinforces the sense of being a human. To be a human means to need a blanket to survive, otherwise you freeze to death. But see this is not your true nature, and there is no need to limit yourself in this way. You are not a human, and you can use the occult to warm yourself up in a superhuman fashion. You can see how all materialistic possessions add this karma. Houses are more than your shelter, the fact that you need a house defines who you are, and adds karma to your life. The fear you get of losing your house is because your house isn't simply some objective thing where if you lose it you die, no. The house on a metaphysical level IS the ego. A house is part of an ego. Without an ego, there is no house. 

For me personally, stuff like these realisations have fuelled this new lifestyle I want to live. This is why the thought of it endows me in Love. The possibilities from taking these steps is awe striking. So much karma can be freed from living this way for a few years. It sheds the identity significantly and adds so much bliss and love. Just imagine barely any material possessions, and all survival that was outsourced to these possessions are embodied within you through mind training and the occult. Its a very blissful way to live. 

The more you do this, the more you also heal others. The less you take, the more you give to others. So it works to help you and others. And the compassion and knowing that you're not taking, makes you feel like you're not hurting anyone, not hurting the wildlife, other people, etc. There's also a lot of subconscious suffering from taking if you're sensitive to it. When you take food, there is a lot of karma in that even if its not visible. It adds suffering. You relieve it by taking less. 

I'm not saying you must change your life to the extreme I want to, to free yourself of this karma. You probably don't have to. But not only is this a way of freeing myself, but I also want to do it and am drawn to living like it. So I'm simply going with the flow. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by electroBeam

[remember]

with a simple reductionistic approach you will only matter less and less though you won’t really change anything - change is only happening if you really also change the choices you make and  support that which is already making changes or a difference you could say.

Edited April 13, 2020 by remember

[Leo Gura]

You can run but you can't hide. It is not possible to live outside of society. You're gonna have to make peace with that fact sooner or later.

The real question is, how do you want to relate with society?

[electroBeam]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You can run but you can't hide. It is not possible to live outside of society. You're gonna have to make peace with that fact sooner or later.

The real question is, how do you want to relate with society?

The way self sufficient old men and women on the hill did, and the way yogis in cave did, sounds pretty enticing.