Leo, you are doing it wrong!!

[TimStr]

Now this is porbably going to get lots of hate, but I just have to say it:

@Leo Gura: You are doing it wrong!!

This first part goes directly to you. I don't want to piss you off, but I am about to get really offensive. You helped me out so much in my life by always being straight to the point. Now I strongly feel, that I have to do the same for you. All this comes from a place of genuine compassion for you. What you are trying to do with your work is amazing and I really want to see you succeed. And thats why I have to say it!

You are doing it wrong!!

You are trying to realize nonduality by being in some oneness with god state all the time that you found on psychedelics. But you fail to see, that this state (can be called "small nonduality") is based on the assumption of a duality between nonduality vs. duality. "Big nonduality" would involve both, that nondual oneness with god psychedelic state and the dual, seperate from god "normal" state.

Being in that oneness with god state is NOT awakening. Awakening is realizing, that oneness with god is everpresent, and that taking a psychedelic cannot bring you any closer to that.

This is one of the main pathology of working with psychedelics. They show you these profound states. But the mistake is to build up an identity in that state and then get attached to that identity.

That is the main blindspot that you have and that is holding you back.

 

Here are two main things, that I think are really harmful about all that:

 

Firstly, and this is just my personal belief: You won't realize "big nonduality" that way. If you continue to use psychedelics the way you are doing right now, you're only going to fuel that identity, you created for yourself in the psychedelic state, that you are so attached to. You will probably try to prove me wrong by taking even more psychedelics. And honestly, I think that I can't really help you with that and that you just have to learn that the hard way.

The real problem here is not that you are getting stuck, but that you are misleading people. Over the last yearsworth of videos, I saw you developing a strong hybris and, dare I say, messiah complex. You are just way too serious about that shit, dismissing any practice other than psychedelics! Which is really ironic because you have been talking about cult psychology and zen-devilry in your videos. Now your in that position yourself and you fail to see it because of your seriousness!

Thats why the spiritual journey demands a great sense of humor. Allthough you have to be very serious to get anywhere, being able to laugh about yourself is crucial to not get stuck.

All your really doing right now is blasting yourself nuts with 5-MeO to scratch that God-addiction itch of yours. And you are totally loosing that down-to-earth-ness which was one of your greatest qualities.

Stop doing that! Its not going to work and its harming people, that try to follow you and getting them stuck!

 

Secondly, and this is way more important imo: You are making the stigma of psychedelics even worse. If we ever want to get them legalized we have to advocate for responsable use. You did that in your first few videos about psychedelics. But lately that psychedelic evangelism of yours went way over the top. I bet if you could, you would go around the world and plug 5-MeO into everybodys ass, starting with mine...

This attitude is not going to help! Stop it, please! We all really want to live in a world, were these substances are legally and openly avaliable to everybody for responsable use. What we need for that is a significant number of people, that show how to make use of these substances without causing collateral damage. We need you to be an example by taking a very nuanced and careful approach.

We don't need another hippie, frying his brain with substances. And we definately don't need another spiritual teacher, that is getting lost in the rabbit whole of his own teachings and possibly even dragging other people with him.
Please be very aware about how people recieve your teachings, Leo.

 

You will probably dismiss what I am saying by means of some epistemic assumption, that I am making. Something like "Notice, that you are just god talking to itself". Or you will say to yourself, "This is just the devil, trying to use gods teachings against god himself." Yeah, if you do that, you totally failed to see the point that is to be understood here:

You are doing it wrong!!

 

My last piece of advice is something that a fellow actualizer and good friend of mine once said:

"I think the best thing for Leo would be working some stupid job, refilling the shelves at wallmart or something!"

I am serious! Stopping to do psychedelics and still maintaining total presence while living a profundly mundane life, would require an enormous spiritual realization.
Blasting yourself and talking about how awake you are does not.

I challange you: Don't do any psychedelics for at least one year!

Face the grief that will be coming up over the illusory seperation from god and simply be with it, until you realize, that there was no seperation in the first place. This will benefit your teachings, both in maturity and profundity.

 

Just to be clear: I am not interested in having a discussion about the personal behavour of Leo or  of any teacher for that matter. I want this to be about learning whatever we can about the spiritual path. And in my opinion the main thing Leo is teaching us right now is, how NOT to do it!

This thread is probably going to get locked or deleted. I don't care. All I really want is to help you out, Leo, by sharing my honest opinion. Please spend some time thinking about what I wrote.

[RedLine]

As long as I understand you, you basically mean that Leo states that God is only present in the mystical non-dual state and it is not present also in separte ordinary life. Am I wrong? I think definetly he doesn't think that way.

Edited April 11, 2020 by RedLine

[DivineSoda]

I agree with the essence of what you said, but then again I have never taken 5-MEO so it's difficult to fully understand Leo's perspective.

Have you?

[VeganAwake]

Non-duality points to everything being it. Everything that happens is it. There isn't an inside of it or an outside of it because everything is literally it...

There's no positions for everything...

Hallucinations and mystical experiences are it, eating a taco is it, walking outside in the rain is it, eating a jelly donut is it, a piece of grass with a ladybug on it is it, a pile of dogshit on the sidewalk is it, dropping your kids off at school is it, a virus sweeping the planet in claiming numerous lives is it, sitting in your house wondering how things are going to turn out is it. Your kids waking up and giving you hugs is it, your daughter getting raped when she's 19 years old at college is it.

Everything is it and it's completely ordinary and extraordinary simultaneously...it is Infinite = 0

A conditioned body/mind looks at something and assigns meaning purpose and value to it so it can put it into a box, label it, and now know it and understand it. 

But knowing is a trap because there isn't anything missing that needs to be understood... everything is already as it is... whole complete perfect.

The trick is Basking in the Unknowing..

It's like there are billions of apparent individuals running around the planet with separate dreams, believing their dream is the center of the universe... there is nothing wrong with it... it's what's happening and it's also everything its also it. This has been called (Maya illusion of the self)

When Awakening occurs and it's recognized the separate individual was never real to begin with,  everything can be viewed clearly... without a story attached to it... without an egoic self agenda determining the value of it for the 'ME'. (what can 'I' get out of this)

It's Unconditional Love for everything.. whatever this everything is. ❤

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TimStr]

23 hours ago, RedLine said:

As long as I understand you, you basically mean that Leo states that God is only present in the mystical non-dual state and it is not present also in separte ordinary life. Am I wrong? I think definetly he doesn't think that way.

@RedLine I mean, that Leo thinks, that being in psychedelic, only-god-is-present states IS being enlightened or at least getting you there. And while I cannot possibly know, what might work for him on his spiritual path, I see the way he is teaching and endorsing psychedelics lately as a pathology of that.

Basically, I am saying that while psychedelics are extremely powerful tools, they have the potential to corrupt you massively. And I believe, that @Leo Gura has unknowingly fallen into that trap. Which is sad in and of itself, but can become really harmful to people that follow him and to the stigma of psychedelics.

[TimStr]

@RedLine  Adeptus Psychonautica did a great video about all that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BOSwQAM27M
 

[TimStr]

23 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

I agree with the essence of what you said, but then again I have never taken 5-MEO so it's difficult to fully understand Leo's perspective.

Have you?

@DivineSoda I have worked with a variety of psychedelics including mushrooms, AL-LAD, ALD-52, N,N-DMT, 5MeO-DMT and Salvia. And while I wouldn't consider myself to have anywhere near as much experience as Leo, I got enough of them to see that they also hold the potential to massively corrupt you. They can work wonders by showing you states of awareness that you couldn't imagine, but they can also have the trendency to get people way lost in the psychological head trip.

I think, thats also the reason, why people like Martin Ball, Octavio Rettig and most shamans I know work with psychedelics purely on an energetical level. They don't talk about insights and things to be understood and sometimes actively dismiss it. For them, its not about getting into a state. They think of them as medicine, that does something to the human body and energy system.

[neovox]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:08 AM, TimStr said:

I bet if you could, you would go around the world and plug 5-MeO into everybodys ass, starting with mine...

YES, please!

Leo has recently made statements that I interpreted as his intention to stop psychedelics because of him having outgrown the need. Tho I could be mistaken in my interpretation.

Edited April 12, 2020 by neovox

[Aaron p]

I don't believe leo anyway...he actually instructs you to not believe him in a number of his videos...

I only follow the intuition. Since 5meo can only be appropriately assessed by you in your direct experience you will have to do some science to assess it. A normal scientist (with a normal hypothesis) will set up *actual* scenarios in which the hypothesis is either proven or disproven. He doesn't read a book, or watch a video...he has the actual test in his direct experience. So for you that would look something like this;

*Don't take 5meo*: look around, analyse how you feel, analyse your mind how everything feels.

*Take 5meo*: look around, analyse how you feel and what you see. 

A scientist will repeat a test multiple times to gain a consistent measurement. So you would do this multiple times (if your being scientific) and then after further thorough research into questions like "what is leo referring to when he says the word god?" Etc. Then you'll be qualified to talk on the matter. Until then, you might as well believe that the carona virus doesn't exist...after all, have you seen it? Have you directly experienced it's actual existence? At this point saying "covid 19 doesn't exist" and saying "strategic use of 5meo isint mature or correct" are of the same calabar. 

Don't believe anything! However, observe the fruits of Leo's practises, what he has accomplished. Man I'm tired of taking like some kind of child. It's completely obvious that Leo is on the ball. Look at the way he talks. He is transcendental. He doubts himself more than anyone. You have to be smart enough to see it. If your not...then go watch mooji

Edited April 12, 2020 by Aaron p

[RedLine]

2 hours ago, TimStr said:

@RedLine I mean, that Leo thinks, that being in psychedelic, only-god-is-present states IS being enlightened or at least getting you there.

It will be useful for you to understand the differente between stages of consciusness and states of consciusness developed by Ken Wilber. I created a thread about this. It could fix you confussion. I don´t know if Leo has that phenomenology he talks about permanently or just when he is on DMT. He never specified this.

 

2 hours ago, TimStr said:

 And while I cannot possibly know, what might work for him on his spiritual path, I see the way he is teaching and endorsing psychedelics lately as a pathology of that.

I don´t think so, he got tremendous gains using psychedelics and he transmits that truth to us. It would be hypocritical to get big gains by using pshychodelics and then tell people that they can get there through meditation. He express what works for him.

 

2 hours ago, TimStr said:

Basically, I am saying that while psychedelics are extremely powerful tools, they have the potential to corrupt you massively. And I believe, that @Leo Gura has unknowingly fallen into that trap. Which is sad in and of itself, but can become really harmful to people that follow him and to the stigma of psychedelics.

What he says is something like: "meditation is great but I could only achieve very very deep levels of consciusness by using psychodelics". It doesn´t mean mediation is not useful or we should quit meditation and use psychodelics.

Edited April 12, 2020 by RedLine

[Thewritersunion]

I’m gonna leave these Tier 2 Forums. The problem with Tier two is that is focuses on self-deception instead of the even more self-breaking reality of God.

[VeganAwake]

Tier two forms is also your God...

When everything being Everything is Everything, You will be home ?

[zeroISinfinity]

1 hour ago, Thewritersunion said:

I’m gonna leave these Tier 2 Forums. The problem with Tier two is that is focuses on self-deception instead of the even more self-breaking reality of God.

Well Reality is ME. So sorry but it's unbreakable. Love is unbreakable. Formless can't be destroyed hehehehe. (have to say want to jack off at this fact/truth) 

Most wonderful owe inspiring efin thing and it is eternal and Absolute. 

[The observer]

hehe u silly boy do u think it matters at all? hes doing what hes doing cuz he knows reality is groundless and that hes free to do any thing he want. enjoy the things u have. y not? desire knows no logic and no limits. let the divine love guide him home or lead him astray cuz theres a plan weather u r aware of it or not.

[Aaron p]

;-)

[Jacobsrw]

@TimStr I fully admire your courage and authenticity in this post. I feel we should all take some insight from this.

It’s so easy to become deceived by the efforts of assuming “your doing it all right to begin with. Often the very deception we assume we are free of, is the very deception we are holding. 

Leo is holds a lot of wisdom on this path but I would say, it would be wise to tread the path in this work carefully beyond heresay.

It’s important not to assume those more experienced or primed are any less deceived than you. The biggest self-deception will always be ones own mind not others.

 

[Verdesbird]

to adress correctly the issue we must go back to leo's last video...


the ''map'' that he gave us is that we are only one being and that being creates all the universe 

now.. i manage to schedule my 5meo trip with a shamam,but the ideal world would be that mankind(us) could experience what he's talking about wihtout going to the extremes,

i dont plenty feel actually that i do create the universe..i mean..look at the planets and tha galaxies,i dont remenber to built any of these

i think that this ''map'' should be revisioned ,maybe he will do this in the next videos,maybe he will go deeper and deeper into chedelics and leave everyone in the dust,perhaps even himself 

[Verdesbird]

4 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

You are coming at this from the pov of your human brain, which is extremely limited. First step is to discover you’re not the body/brain/thoughts/feelings, but Consciousness. Next step is to discover this Consciousness is unlimited.

thats why i schedule a session with a shamam,to check it out all of this and to experience the bufo

lets see if i see ..