The answer to non-duality is "Choice"

[WHO IS]

Non-duality teachers, who say statements like "there is no Self/I". "I don't have any expectations and judgments" 

However, when one carefully analyzes them and what they are saying, you see the elephant in the room, and that is "choice". Even though they are denying their own I/Being`s existence, they make choices, they choose a certain way to dress, they choose to speak a certain way. They still want to look a certain way "A proper haircut, a stubble/beard, accessories, etc". Which usually involves a choice made by someone, which shows that there IS someone. 

If what they are saying they truly believed in, they would care about nothing, there would be no-one to care to do any caring, if as they say their "I/Being" don't exist they hold to be as truth. 

But they themselves and the choices they make, show that they do care, and they do actually exist, making conscious choices. 

 

"Choice" indeed seems to be the most important puzzle-piece in all of reality. "Seems", I wrote, because, my understanding is still in progress. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by WHO IS

[fridjonk]

@WHO IS They are not in the absolute state all the time. Of course they have to think about survival and other things, like eating and dressing up, and not breaking traffic laws. 

That's why the highest state one can reach (infinite love, infinite consciousness) is a state, and not an ongoing experience, because you are in a human body after all within this illusion. But you can have an ongoing experience of no-self (no attachment) within the body.

 

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

But they themselves and the choices they make, show that they do care, and they do actually exist, making conscious choices. 

 

They consciously go on a lower level to make these choices, they are aware of them basically. 

[WHO IS]

 

 

3

 Advanced issues found

▲

 

1

3 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@WHO IS They are not in the absolute state all the time. Of course they have to think about survival and other things, like eating and dressing up, and not breaking traffic laws. 

That's why the highest state one can reach (infinite love, infinite consciousness) is a state, and not an ongoing experience, because you are in a human body after all within this illusion. But you can have an ongoing experience of no-self (no attachment) within the body.

They consciously go on a lower level to make these choices, they are aware of them basically. 

If what they say is true, there should be "no-one" there to "go on a lower level to make these choices, they are aware of them basically." 

[fridjonk]

@WHO IS Because you have to be in absolute state to be free of all self and ego. 

When they are operating in the world, they are not in an absolute state. They'd get themselves killed very quickly if that were the case. 

[arlin]

@fridjonk I don't believe they are enlightened 24/7. Jim newman and tony parsons for example. They speak just words. I don't think all non dual teachers have had direct experiences.

And i don't believe a human being can be in an enlightened state  24/7 .

[WHO IS]

30 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@WHO IS Because you have to be in absolute state to be free of all self and ego. 

When they are operating in the world, they are not in an absolute state. They'd get themselves killed very quickly if that were the case. 

Exactly, if they belived in what they are saying/telling others, they wouldn't care if they would get killed or not, because if as they say there is no "I", then there would be no "I/me"  to care about the death of "I/me". 

But they still care, which shows that they themselves don't buy their own teachings to the full extent. Which is a big thought provoker.

Edited April 6, 2020 by WHO IS

[fridjonk]

@arlin Yes that's exactly what I was saying. And I was more so speaking of people like Rupert Spira. 

3 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

Exactly, if they belived in what they are saying/telling others

They don't believe in these things, they are aware of them. 

6 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

they wouldn't care if they would get killed or not

They don't care...WHEN in those peak states of awakening.

7 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

But they still care, which shows that they themselves don't buy their own teachings to the full extent.

No, the teachings they are speaking of are those of peak states, not the relative illusory world. 

[WHO IS]

1 minute ago, fridjonk said:

@arlin Yes that's exactly what I was saying. And I was more so speaking of people like Rupert Spira. 

They don't believe in these things, they are aware of them. 

They don't care...WHEN in those peak states of awakening.

No, the teachings they are speaking of are those of peak states, not the relative illusory world. 

Who are "they", if there is no-one? They are aware that they exist but they deny that. 

[WHO IS]

If they became aware of something, and then preach it to others as ultimately true, how right is it?

Because we know, that people can have direct-experience which are not ultimately true. A guy on salvia, putting his hands into a shredder, because while he was on salvia for his POV the shredder was a river of immortality and putting his hands into would make him immortal (true story btw), did he have a direct awareness of this "truth" from his POV while he was high on Salvia? yes from his POV at that moment it was very true.

However, that led him to lose both of hands. Reality did not care whatever he imagined/was aware of while he was on high on salvia. Thus from this example alone, we can deduct that individual POV experiences/awareness can be misleading. 

 

[fridjonk]

7 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

Who are "they", if there is no-one?

We somehow have to talk about it, so don't take the language too seriously. 

8 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

They are aware that they exist but they deny that. 

"They" are aware they exist within the illusion, but "they" know there never was such a thing ultimately, it was all imagined. 

[WHO IS]

3 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

We somehow have to talk about it, so don't take the language too seriously. 

"They" are aware they exist within the illusion, but "they" know there never was such a thing ultimately, it was all imagined. 

Then what drives them to do anything after the point of being aware of such a realization? If there is no one behind the steering wheel, what drives the car?

[fridjonk]

2 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

If they became aware of something, and then preach it to others as ultimately true, how right is it?

It's true only for those who have realized it, it's not true for you unless you are aware that you are god. For you it could all be a big fat lie, and you should treat it that way. Not-knowingness is the most powerful thing you will ever find. Knowledge is an illusion. 

You're judging losing your hands. That's not a bad or a good thing. It happened ultimately out of love. 

6 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

did he have a direct awareness of this "truth" from his POV while he was high on Salvia?

No, he was probably deluded and acting out of fear, so running away from love in a sense. 

[fridjonk]

2 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

Then what drives them to do anything after the point of being aware of such a realization? If there is no one behind the steering wheel, what drives the car?

LOVE!  Love drives the car. This is your creation, once you realize that, you will want the best for it. 

[WHO IS]

2 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

LOVE!  Love drives the car. This is your creation, once you realize that, you will want the best for it. 

But if there is no better or worse and all judgment/differentiation is illusion, then how could one "want the BEST for it"? 

[fridjonk]

@WHO IS Because reality is made out of pure LOVE! THERE IS ONLY GOODNESS. When you realize this, you will drop down to your knees and cry your soul out. It's too good to be true! It doesn't make sense there is such goodness. You are safe no matter what, God has got your back for eternity!

 ?

 

[arlin]

33 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

However, that led him to lose both of hands. Reality did not care whatever he imagined/was aware of while he was on high on salvia. Thus from this example alone, we can deduct that individual POV experiences/awareness can be misleading.

Maybe he clearly experienced what leo is talking about. That everything is ultimately imagination and he turned his into reality such that he lost his hands when he came back in the real world. I mean, only a god could do this.

Could this be it?

[WHO IS]

2 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@WHO IS Because reality is made out of pure LOVE! THERE IS ONLY GOODNESS. When you realize this, you will drop down to your knees and cry your soul out. It's too good to be true! It doesn't make sense there is such goodness. You are safe no matter what, God has got your back for eternity!

 ?

 

But God destroys/kills his own creation, no?

[arlin]

4 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Because reality is made out of pure LOVE! THERE IS ONLY GOODNESS. When you realize this, you will drop down to your knees and cry your soul out. It's too good to be true! It doesn't make sense there is such goodness. You are safe no matter what, God has got your back for eternity!

Be aware jim newman for example which is a non duality teacher does not believe this.

I am aware that there is many degrees of awakening. How do you know if he has had a more profound awakening than leo's and has discovered the truth further? That ultimately reality its not this big love that you are talking about.

 

[fridjonk]

@WHO IS You bet he does! Only because it has forgotten it is god, god operates on fear until death is realized. Because everything leads up to fear of death. And he has no problem killing his own creation because he is the killer too. So he doesn't have to judge anything or anyone, because he is all other things. It never dies. 

[WHO IS]

 

 

2

 Advanced issues found

▲

 

1

Just now, arlin said:

Maybe he clearly experienced what leo is talking about. That everything is ultimately imagination and he turned his into reality such that he lost his hands when he came back in the real world. I mean, only a god could do this.

Could this be it?

He put his hands into a shredder which as turned on, so when you could guess what happens when you put your hands into a shredder? Yeah, they got shredded and he lost his hands. He did it while he was high on salvia, so while he was high he had a direct experience that putting his hands into the shredder, which on salvia looked like a immortality river, that by putting his hands into the "immortality river" he would become immortal. 

But when his "high" wore off, he came back to see that he has no more hands. So basically what I'm trying to say is that reality doesn't care what one experience in ones own POV.