Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

[gswva]

Can God die? Does God want to live? How did it come to existence in the first place?

Or are we trapped for eternity in this absolute mess for no apparent reason?

(I don't mean death/life in a biological or dual way, I mean "not being")

Edited April 6, 2020 by gswva

[gswva]

@Meta-Man By existence, God, or "we", I mean all awareness there is. Can't consciousness just "stop doing its thing"?

if you mean the concept of forward/backward motion in time is a duality, is true lack of awareness possible?

Edited April 6, 2020 by gswva

[gswva]

@Meta-Man I'm not enlightened, but I somewhat superficially make sense of it. The issue isn't that I fear death or life, my experience of self is pretty neutral. But based on your words, I'm really profoundly afraid of infinity and eternity. I guess that concern is a dualistic mindset as well. When we communicate the idea of "Nothingness", what are we talking about exactly? Is it the absence of every dual state? Being one with the whole?

41 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

There is no lack of Awareness, because Awareness is That. Awareness is God. God is Infinite and Eternal.

I understand. If there is a lack, there is already awareness. It's not really a satisfying answer though.

Can awareness not be? 

[gswva]

@Meta-Man I already understand what my ego is (or at least, it pretends that it does). I'm not afraid of death. I want "true" death.

My consciousness is melting. I feel like being suck out of the movie. I'm desperately in need to know what I'm expected to do once I will have to face the truth. But since we're talking in this dual system and we both have the same awareness, no matter how restricted or infinite, I don't even know if this going to be of any help.

Seems to me that the ego isn't the problem, it's the only solution found by infinity.

[WHO IS]

If self-consciousness dies at the moment of physical death, then what's the point persuing enlightenment? To get the same answer that any other atheist already convinced of?

Edited April 6, 2020 by WHO IS

[gswva]

5 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

You still don’t realize what the ego is.

You still don’t have a firm understanding of death and its implications.

Isn't this unappreciative way of writing another layer of defense mechanism to the ego? Isn't all the talk about enlightenment from Leo, pure imagination? Isn't this forum dual as well, else I would not even able to read it in the first place? Isn't everyone pretending, to lure me back to my untangled state? As long as I'm not one with the whole, how could anything else be?

5 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

have the ultimate fearless joyride

Joy/pain grows out of duality, right? Or is it some kind of deep sense of satisfying creation akin to what we experience during a psychedelic trip?

Why can't awareness not be? Realistically speaking I'm only talking to myself here, which leads to an even weirder point: Why is my ego the only one who seems concerned about Eternity, and its implication? The idea that misunderstandings might be an inherent trait of duality, and that those answers could only be found in the "Truth", as one, is even scarier.

It's horrifying. I'm physically and mentally perfectly fine (who cares about reality at this point though), but I can't even kill myself to escape out of consciousness.

[Mu_]

8 hours ago, gswva said:

Can God die? Does God want to live? How did it come to existence in the first place?

Or are we trapped for eternity in this absolute mess for no apparent reason?

(I don't mean death/life in a biological or dual way, I mean "not being")

Oh, I thought this was about elephants...  What makes eternity a mess?

[Bennn]

9 hours ago, Meta-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

@gswva

All your fears stems from fear of death. It can always be traced back to fear of death. Make no mistake about that.

Death = Infinity/Eternity. 

Who you currently take yourself to be is someone limited, temporal, that will die. Infinity/Eternity is the death of that identification.

By my definition Awareness = Consciousness = God = Infinity = Eternity = Nothingness = Reality. It is not a product manufactured by the human brain.

If by awareness you mean self-consciousness, then yes, that will end. That is the ego. 

 

 

 

How does awareness=nothingness 

 

[Bennn]

Formless does not equal nothingness. Nothingness by it's very nature does not exist. As far as I can see it cannot equal awareness 

[gswva]

@Mu_ It's about elephants though. There is no deeper mess than infinite layers of everything, but that's my opinion.

@Meta-Man Why are you avoiding the questions? I already understand everything there is to understand: nothing. I don't even care about enlightenment, aside from the inevitable untangling of my own self. We are the only one consciousness here, so why isn't my fear of eternity reaching you? Well putting those ideas into words already exclude the answers from being anywhere near the truth. Still, I wish myself would understand and create any story-like approximation that would stop this absolute madness of my ego.

Can "being" not be? What does the "being" want? Why "is" it?

[gswva]

@Bennn Those are just words, or symbols as Leo puts it. Some people here assume Nothingness to be the lack of form, thus awareness. But really, the point of this thread is about what can't be put into words without undermining itself: "not being".

[gswva]

8 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Being is all there is. 

Being has no agenda.

It simply is.

It ‘is’ because it cannot not be.

I see, it's that bad. I really didn't want to read it which might explain why you didn't want to tell me, I'm sorry for everything. So this is it. Do we just keep creating more stuff and pretend everything to be fine?

11 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Your fear of eternity is your fear of death. It’s the same thing. If you realized yourself as Eternity right now your ego would drop dead. It is what you fear the most.

You have a point, but I think it still goes deeper than that. I didn't fear death until learning about its true nature. "Not being" is a really convenient escape. If this really is out of reach then

just 

WOW.

[arlin]

this is very interesting. Keep going!  

[PlayTheGame]

This thread I made might have something to do with this

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by PlayTheGame

[r0ckyreed]

How can we know that consciousness or nothingness exists? Isn’t it circular to say that we know consciousness exists because it is the space of that which all knowledge and experience is possible? If this is the case, can consciousness know itself to exist? If everything known to exist can only take place in consciousness, then what does it mean for something to exist, let only for consciousness to exist? 
 

How can I have an experience or know the nature of this Void, Consciousness or Nothingness? Can this Void be known through contemplation? Meditation? How? How can I contemplate that which I have never experienced? I assume that I have not experienced nothingness. If so, how can I get this epiphany of my true nature? Thanks.
 

 

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

What happens to consciousness when we go to sleep?  It goes back to natural state?  I guess there is no such thing as no-consciousness when we sleep.  If there is no-consciousness when we "lose" consciousness, then how can we wake up?  If there is no-consciousness then how can consciousness come to be?  So consciousness in its natural state is like that state which was before we were born, when we are in deep-sleep and when we die?

 Thanks for your reply! I am new to this work, and I am willing to take any advice you have or any book recommendations!  Thank you!

[SoonHei]

 

[gswva]

On 10/04/2020 at 11:48 PM, Meta-Man said:

Consciousness appears prior to the brain/body and world. In fact it never had a beginning. It has always been. It is eternity.

You are implying the notion of time itself is imaginary therefore there is no such thing as a past before consciousness. While it should be accurate, I think we can explore further ideas. We say consciousness always existed because the concept of existence itself depends on it. It's clear that a relative point of view is required: What if an hypothetical outside observer, beyond the realm of possibilities, could report any state of "being" and "not being". Would it be able to identify an origin to the singularity? It's tricky since we are reasoning outside of time, but let's just assume.

Not to mention, before this topic is submerged in dual noises, how is non-existence impossible for God when it's already as absurd as existence itself? Does God memorize all the forms it creates or everything is forgotten when the relativity is gone? Does God know how to "be" or "stop being"? Is this correct to assume God wants to live since this is exactly what Love is? Is eternity only an issue for my selfish self or it's also troublesome for God as a whole?

Even if the answers could be exposed by the state of nothingness, it probably is still interesting to review them. Reality itself is designed in opposition to truth, so actual understandings always help to dismantle the tangle we are trapped in. Also it might be the only chance to experience the illusion of sharing mutual emotional states about it which is fun. I've tried waking up, but my ego is pretty thick for some reason. It readily handles high-dose psychedelics. I'm thinking meditation practice and sustained effort toward selfless awareness should help.