Why doesn't Leo agree with conspiracy theories?

[roar]

On 7.4.2020 at 8:58 PM, LfcCharlie4 said:

@roar Have you ever watched any of Ickes videos and read any of his books or? 

I checked him out about 20 years ago, and saw straight through is narcissistic, greedy soul.  I hope you will someday, too. He's clearly a very gifted charlatan, since he still keeps his shit going after all these years.

[Consept]

13 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

Eric Weinstein just recently put out a podcast episodes regarding conspiracies. If you don't know who he is, look him up. Fully credible scientist, among other things. He does it in a refreshing way he calls, "responsible conspiracy theorizing". It's worth a listen. He was also recently on the Joe Rogan podcast and it was one of the most inspiring episodes I've ever watched (mostly at the end). Check it out:

 

Yeah nice share, this is the stuff im talking about, if he doesnt know something he says i dont know but this kind of thing is in the realm of possibility as something similar has happened before. This is the method conspiracy theorists should use but i dont see much of it. I guess thinking about it now, it would come down to what level of consciousness youre on, for example if youre at stage blue its likely that youll swap one religion and make something else fit into the structure, this could go for any 'movement', truthers, pick up, feminism, veganism, whatever. Youre likely to have that 100% certainty and create in groups and out groups and probably have disparaging names for the out group (sheeple, hethen etc), amongst other traits.

So as a journey its probably good for people as theyve shed at least one false belief system, but ultimately they would need to get to the point where they see the fallacy of any belief system. 

[LaucherJunge]

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[diamondpenguin]

@Flowerfaeiry if I've learned one thing. It's that we need to grow ourselves not focus on other people's beliefs. That's what I do anyway. Watching leo talk is cool. But it's nothing in comparison to putting his techniques into use. I have a lot of respect for leo gura. But I don't worship him or put him on a pedestal at all..the mods on here might call me a demon or.diluted. or whatever. But hell they need to stop judging me. We got bigger fish to fry. I almost died in a car crash.  We gotta use all the energy and put all that energy into helping the penguins. The ice melting is not a conspiracy I've seen it with my own eyes. We gotta do something about it.

[LfcCharlie4]

@roar  The pinnacle of greed is living in a small one bedroom apartment in the Isle of Wight. 

I'll give you that he likes hearing himself speak! 

However, I think you've listened to/ read very little of him, have you read 'The Trigger' or another of his more recent books? Or listened to one of his 10 hour lectures? 

His overall message is that we are infinite consciousness and are all the same, therefore, all of these divisions and arguments on X, Y and Z are not helpful at all. That all that exists is Infinite Love, and by understanding this and realizing the nature of reality we can set ourselves free, and create (relatively) the world we deserve to live in. 

Doesn't sound to different from most spiritual teachers to me? 

[Billy Shears]

I would not describe myself as a conspiracy theorist, but I do sit down with them and try to form my own picture from different perspectives from different sides. I think that's very important, not just to insist on one opinion. You have to find the right mix. Many conspiracy theories are bullshit, but unfortunately many are true. It is just as wrong to believe any conspiracy theory as to accept any public media opinion. Both sides tend to be stubborn, to insist on their opinion and worldview and to describe the other side as crazy or asleep. Ultimately, we're all in the same boat, so it's best to have a constructive discussion and admit yourself when you're wrong. It is more important to get information correctly than just to exercise your ego and to consistently reject all theories. That would be strength.

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, anonuser131 said:

Cause Leominati is part of the cult. That's why he pushes synthetic substance use to delude you from real Enlightenment so your minds are kept under control There is CIA documentation for this

LMAOOO

[Consept]

After looking into it, specifically the Bill Gates conspiracy theories that he wants to depopulate the world starting with Africa and also chip all of us, I can see that there is not much weight any of the theories at least i havent seen anything, still have an open mind though. This article sums it up with a French doctor going viral for warning Africans not to get any vaccines from the west, this was debunked by a Fact Check group in France after they contacted the place he works and they stated he didnt write that post -  https://medium.com/dfrlab/bill-gates-trends-in-south-africa-after-coronavirus-anti-vaxxer-conspiracy-theory-goes-viral-4b4ca22ff6d6

Obviously i havent seen everything but most of the negative stories tend to be from sites like info wars which will also site from other similar sites. The worst story i found was one about a meningitis vaccine that allegedly paralysed 50 kids, although the source is a single newspaper clipping from a chad publication, theres no sources further than that, but of course it could still be true, however if it is it doesnt really speak to the theory that hes trying to kill africans as none of them died (although still a horrible outcome) and also 500 took the vaccine, so its not the most effective way to depopulate if thats his goal, if it is true it seems like more of an issue of bad testing or not checking pre existing conditions, a fuck up basically. But most of the over arching stories are easily debunked. 

Now heres the problem, lets say the conspiracies arent true, so Bill Gates is just trying to do philanthropy and help those in poverty at least get decent protection from diseases, if people in the west or wherever make these posts go viral worldwide which then Africans also believe, its very likely they may reject all vaccines. If they do reject all vaccines not only will the situation continue, (botswana for example has a life expectancy of 41 mainly because of diseases) but it will increase significantly as theyve found families have more kids because of poverty as so many people die parents want to make sure some live through to look after them when their old (this article explains better - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255510/). If there was better healthcare and parents felt more secure that they wont have their kids die its likely they would have less children, for example in Niger the average kids per household is 7 whereas western countries in tends to be around 2. So of course a strategy would be to improve healthcare and in particular vaccines for things like polio which we take for granted and good hiv/aids treatments which are big problems. If this isnt done then overpopulation will be a serious problem as their healthcare systems cant handle the amount of people already imagine what the numbers will be in 30 years. So looking into where conspiracies come from a lot are from very questionable sites and social media, if i was to have my own conspiracies id say they came from far right people who themselves want to destroy Africa because the best way to destroy Africa would be to stop all intervention from the west in regards to healthcare, an even better way would be to get Africans to reject it themselves(i have no way to prove that though). But people on social media continue to share these type of things with no research or context or anything and this could lead to a lot of suffering, death and destruction just based on a hunch that Bill Gates is evil. Keep in mind if Bill Gates doesnt do the vaccines someone else needs to and that someone will also likely be a billionaire and most likely be taken down in the same manner as there is a general distrust for them, but then who is gonna sort this problem out?

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
They are debunking what exactly? They are debunking that a message from some random guy that was spread over the internet was actually written by him, they are not debunking whether the message was correct or not, not to mention that they were asking the institute he was working in not even the guy himself, obviously that could have easily been a cover up and even if it wasn't I again don't see how this claim was of any significance what so ever, didn't even know about this to be honest. That Bill Gates is in the vaccination industry is well documented and there is enough video of evidence of him promoting vaccines, so the point here is not digging into Bill Gates himself but into the dangers of vaccines and so you'll establish the link of the negative effects of vaccines which get burried on a regular basis and normally don't make it into the mainstream obviously, a lot of studies are being doctored and that is very obvious if you dig into that, you should actually watch the vaxxed movie couldn't be more obvious. Now if you know that vaccines are dangerous in many ways and see that Bill Gates is one of the main financial investors and promoters of this stuff, do I need to say more?

Don't forget your critical thinking when reading such debunking articles.

From what I've heard the main critique of vaccines is not about killing people just like that, don't know why you think that would be the case. It's about vaccines making people impotent. Also hearing a lot of autism in relation to vaccines and many people having really bad side effects. Some stories of people being healthy all their life and getting sick only just after getting vaccinated. Just see the damn content in vaccines there is damn mercury in the vaccines which the body will never be able to get rid of, do you seriously think this has no effect on the body?!
The craziest theories I've heard and honestly don't see a way of checking for their validity, is that the metals put into your body by vaccines can actually kind of implode due to 5G frequencies and so cause the terrific "corona" symptoms we see in some people just dropping dead in the middle of the street. Test runs for this were supposedly with birds, that's why there were so many birds dying recently having very similar lungs damage as severe corona patients. So by having a monopoly on vaccines Bill Gates would potentially have the power of killing anybody he wanted to when also using 5G technology, also people speculate about RFID chips being in vaccines which would give them additional control over the population.
http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/030902.html

"If there was better healthcare and parents felt more secure that they wont have their kids die its likely they would have less children"
I've seen Bill Gates make this claim multiple times, is it that they would have less children because of their health or less children because their measure of being healthy in theirs studies was being vaccinated(vaccinated=healthy) and so people vaccinated were impotent and couldn't have any children anymore.
That people in the west have less children has many factors, now saying that it's mainly due to their health would also be a bold claim.
Overpopulation being a serious problem is very real indeed, but this doesn't justify a few people in the elite using such shady strategies to depopulate, also considering other conspiracy theories, overpopulation might be much less of a problem with many technologies that are being kept from the public. Just as an example google TR3-B, these damn things have been top secret for years and are working with damn anti-gravitation technology and there are so many people who write they've seen them with their own eyes, they are 100% silent and fast as heck in any direction. The witness accounts go back to at least 1996. The technology that has been hidden from us could save many of the worlds greatest problems. You really think there is no cure for cancer? Think again.
But of course you can take most of these things with a grain of salt, since you haven't been digging as deep as I did.

You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole on Bill Gates goes. But he is only one of many.
The most powerful widely known families or people responsible for a lot of these shady happenings are George Soros, Rockefeller and the Rothschilds. While the Rothschilds are pretty much screwd now since Trump has basically fused the FED with the treasury.
We are in the middle of WW3 right now and we don't even see it.
One side is pushing forced vaccinations, 5G and many controlling instances, while the other side is taking their power busting pedophile rings, cartels, basically attacking all of their empire, I honestly don't understand how so many people are blind to what's happening around the world at the moment.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[Consept]

@LaucherJunge

What i was highlighting is how quickly a fake story can go viral when there is no backing for it, i found many other stories like this that ive seen doing the rounds on social media, the moment you start looking at the sources the story disintegrates and yes i am very critical, im not just accepting the debunkings. The issue is i cant find any information that counters the debunking of the stories at all. 

Now i appreciate at least you seem to be doing some deeper research than what i come across from most people which appears to be nothing. I agree with you on a few points, yes i know Bill Gates puts a lot of money into vaccinations in poorer countries so your point as i understand it, is that vaccines are inherently bad, so if Gates is involved in it he must be part of the conspiracy to make people in Africa impotent or have autism. So really what we're talking about is an anti-vaccine argument. 

I also agree that those in power are probably not telling us the whole truth, we've seen conspiracies come out before although I dont think theres been a conspiracy as big as making millions of people in Africa impotent but of course maybe theyre hiding it. But we've definitely seen some crazy stuff like pedophile rings and the issue with data and all that. So i agree its not that its impossible for a conspiracy to exist, of course it could. 

However looking into the vaccine thing, its apparent that vaccines do need to happen, if you look at this article its about a measles outbreak in the Amish community as they dont believe in vaccinations, somebody came into contact with them from the outside and infected the whole community which couldve been avoided with vaccines -  https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1602295

Also what we can see is that in 1980 polio had about 350,000 paralytic cases per year world wide, this has now gone down to 42 due to vaccines - https://ourworldindata.org/polio  So vaccines are important they will have to be created in some form. The argument might be that we need better vaccines or less damaging or whatever. Most of the science does say that  theyre safe but of course it would say that if there was a conspiracy behind it. But what i find a bit strange about the anti vaxx movement is that if they are dangerous there still needs to be some kind of vaccines because if no one takes them and lets say polio just comes back that could be devastating, so there needs to be some kind of solution proposed, not having vaccines is not a solution, there has to be an alternative. 

The other thing is that a lot of the research comes back to a doctor called Andrew Wakefield, hes been discredited and was shown to artificially change the results of his papers which led to his papers being thrown out - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3136032/ Even the other people who co-wrote the paper admitted no casual link between mmr vaccine and autism. They even found out that Wakefield was funded by the lawyers of the parents that had lawsuits against vaccine companies. You might say well vaccine companies are just trying to shut him down, but you must admit that all sounds very suspicious. 

I also another thing i noticed you did that a lot of people do is theyll post up an article about some new technology and then say this is what theyre going to use to control us with 5G, now thats a big leap because new technology is being developed all the time to then fit it into an already existing narrative despite the fact that theres no evidence or no one claiming thats the case is not very critical. You have to be careful of confirmation bias where you already have your mind made up and then fit random information into it. 

Yes there are many factors for people having more kids and its probably not just the fact they dont have vaccines, however lets assume that the vaccines dont have negative effects for a second, the life expectancy is 41 in some countries partly because of diseases that are preventable by vaccines, so we either need to get them vaccines or come up with a different way to cure them. Just saying they shouldnt get vaccinated is not a solution 

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
That's absolutely correct, now consider how many fake stories the media fabricates. Now taking this same media as the only measure of trustworthy source doesn't seem like a good idea, not that this automatically makes other sources trustworthy, as always this principle should be applied to all sources, no matter how popular or how out of scope.
I'm actually really seeing this a lot with some people I've kept track with on my social media, that they do post stories which are actually fake ones, sometimes they will acknowledge that though and personally for me, this doesn't mean that everything they share is fake, there indeed is this kinda bias where they start looking into a story and share every single bit of information related to this, now is this an issue? surely it is. But a way bigger issue for me would be an instance that can censor absolutely anything they wish to just for it being controversial. This is dictatorship. I would rather have fake stories go around than everything that's not mainstream being censored, the danger in that is very obvious and to a high degree already realized. How many people got killed, discredited, lost their jobs and existence for trying to uncover such things. how bad is the impact of fake stories in comparison? Not even mentioning the actual damage being done by the things being covered up, just the process of covering up and getting rid of such people is already causing more damage.

So my point is, you are stuck at a very unimportant issue in my mind, I absolutely agree with you that it is the case, but in my mind we have bigger problems and this problem would be a necessary side effect of a much better world. By fighting the shadows of the new you are sticking to way bigger shadows of the status quo.
We as actualizers are probably all mostly aware that there is no such thing as a perfect system, of course there will always be some problems and they are not solved by sticking to something that's even worse, they are solved by embracing the new and eventually improving upon it when you manage to outgrow it.

Conspiracy theories are too wast for people to limit themselves to debunking silly debunking articles that completely miss the point. I already pointed it out to you twice, with the last post from Snopes too. The debunking might be correct oftentimes but it completely misses 99% of the evidence and is so focused on the details of a single argument that's unimportant. This is the strategy I see with debunking mostly. It's exactly the problem I see, people gather tons of evidence and they come along pick out a single thing that's incorrect and now claim your whole story is false.
Imagine you have a certain theory about something, I google up that theory and pick out a random piece of evidence for that theory and debunk it, it's as if I put words into your mouth that you never spoke and pretend to have disproven your whole theory. Pick out the most stupid facts or fabricate them yourself only to disprove them after, anyone can do that. Especially when you twist the whole thing and the argument isn't even about the actual content of the theory but just the origin of the story being fake.

Also you have to always consider blackmail and corruption playing a big role in the whole thing, since we are talking about the most powerful and influential and evil people on the planet basically. That's also how they state it in the out of shadows doku, they put you into compromising situations to then be able to blackmail you, once you are in even unwillingly, you'll not be able to get out of this alive, free or with your reputation intact.
As for research and studies, when does money not play a major role in all of this? As long as money is not a concern I am very sceptical about any studies and research, the more money flew into it, the more powerful the beneficiaries the more I doubt it to be honest.

Indeed, you got that right it being an anti-vaccine argument.
I never said though that it's the vaccines in of themselves that are the problem. Can there be actually safe vaccines? Do maybe some few instances of safe vaccines already exist? I have no clue to be honest. This is absolutely not the point, it potentially could be a point but only after you can really be sure that it has been tested independently of finance and exterior influences.
I also consider it to be highly likely that there wouldn't actually be much of sickness at all if all those dark influences weren't there in the first place.
Imagine a world without damn poison in every corner, a world without the big pharma. A world with actual medicine not medicine that's based on profit. Are vaccines even needed at all in this world? I don't know, but it's a valid question to ask for sure.
Do you know how much of all known illnesses is actually of psychological nature in the first place? Now we could ask the question why does our psychology lead to sickness? Maybe we live in a system that is making us sick? A sick society.

There is also another factor at play here that many people overlook. Sickness is there for a reason, our immune system is very very remarkable.
Imagine you have been vaccinated every single year for the flu and were "lucky" enough to not get sick. Getting sick is the best training for the immune system there is, now imagine your immune system always had very little work because it was infected by these mild versions of the illnesses that are inside the vaccine, now after lets say 10-20 years you get a seriously bad flu and your body is not able to handle it at all, so that you might even die in certain circumstances.
I would rather get sick and train my immune system properly. This is something I noticed with different antibiotics and stuff. I got sick so often in the past but then I just stopped taking all that stuff, let my immune system do all the work and strangely I've rarely gotten sick since, of course this is in no way a study, just a single personal case, but that's kinda obvious for me to work this way. Where is the limit for the strength of the human immune system? I would say it's in the poison that's all around us, including vaccines.
If a child never gets sick, its immune system will be very poor.

Now 350,000 or maybe a few million together with all the other illnesses is a very small number, if you consider how much damage could actually be caused by vaccines, not to mention the potential deaths it causes from people not having a well trained immune system.
Vaccines will never be able to keep up with a decent diet, exercise and a healthy psyche. Vaccines are always very specific, the immune system works for basically everything.
People dying from someone foreign bringing a new illness is nothing surprising, that's something that happened many times in the past but with globalization it's mostly a thing of the past.

Now it's funny how him being financed by families who were damaged by vaccines is questioned. Who else would be funding him? Big pharma? I would consider the big players not the small fish to be the fraud here.
"Families whose children became autistic supposedly due to vaccines are paying for doctored studies". Hope you see how silly this actually sounds.
If a few families had enough influence to do so, what the hell do you think is really going on with the big fish with serious money and power?

I didn't claim truth on these things, I specifically wrote that these are the crazier things which are hard to prove. Things I consider to be a possibility lets say.
How is accepting the mainstream narrative because it fits your beliefs different from confirmation bias?

Or maybe we take vaccines out of the picture and the life expectancy is solved in all the other ways I suggested above.

I Really appreciate the more objective talk than I am used to. I see that you actually are considering what I'm saying, while in most of such discussions people seem absolutely blind to 90% of what you write, exactly as the debunkers, they'll focus on a tiny aspect of your argument that they find easiest to argue against and just leave out all the rest.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[Consept]

Likewise i appreciate you taking the time to answer points and not being defensive. Id like to say though im not a debunker and a definitely dont side with the mainstream narrative at all. All im saying is that we have to really scrutinise when we put out conspiracy theories and i think people dont realise the impact if theyre wrong, the potential impact to those that could be affected directly but actually all of us that are searching for truth because if you put something that is quite easily proved to be untrue it means that the next time someone puts something out that might be true its easier to dismiss. Its no secret the russians have started loads of groups on facebook specifically designed to spread fake stories and destabilise usually american society but probably the whole world as well. This is a very effective tool and from what ive seen in my own feeds we're playing right into this. 

I didnt really want to get bogged down in the debunking because that could be kind of endless, i pull something you question it bla bla bla, i really did to make the point that certain whole theories are based of evidence that just doesnt really hold up. Now if you said, like you have, i have a theory that big pharma are doing this or that, then that makes a lot more sense to me, its when its presented as facts without evidence i think what are we talking about? It makes sense logically that big pharma would want to make people kept in a sick state and also mainstream news to keep us in a fear state as this is what makes the money, these all make complete sense from a financial perspective and logically they should be the case. But people take that and add about a million to it which then discredits the original point when theres nothing backing it up.

Regarding your points on health, i 100% agree ideal world we'd focus on diet, exercise, being psychologically and spiritually healthy, the placebo effect accounts for 20% recovery which science cant work out, which is one of the many limitations of science. This should be promoted 100% but as you know with spiral dynamics that might not happen to people get to high orange or green, if were talking about this poverty stricken african towns youre talking about stage red and blue mainly, so its just not a workable solution to promote that, try convinces some of them that believe in witchcraft just to eat healthy(im nigerian and a lot of people still believe in that). Maybe vaccines arent the answer and maybe theyre dangerous but either way something needs to be done.  Same goes for the immune system i agree with you there but with such low life expectancies obviously that strategy is not working there, you have to appreciate we are very privileged in the west