Why doesn't Leo agree with conspiracy theories?

[Jahmaine]

The reason I think @Leo Gura doesn’t entertain conspiracy theories is because it’s not his field of expertise (and you don’t know what you don’t know), plus he puts all of the earths populations faults down to just not being developed enough on the spiral (which is technically true) and just happening naturally. As he’s said in a spiral dynamics “there’s not some global reptilian race” “it’s not like the evil queen has decided to do this”. 

 

What stage would a global reptilian controlled cult that’s psychopathic, scientifically intellectual, into the occult and would go to any extent to achieve a global fascist state and depopulated the world be? 

 

If we looked at them through the lens of spiral dynamics, it’d be interesting to consider what transformational dilemma they’d need to go through to maybe reconsider. - providing they exist  

[Inliytened1]

 

My take is one shouldn't be naive about stuff but when you are coming from a perspective of paranoia and that everything is lies that is the reality you will have as your viewpoint will always be skewed because you come from a place biased that everything is conspiracy off the get go, rather than being unbiased.  You in fact are creating the conspiracy yourself not anyone behind the scenes.  

 

 

[brugluiz]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

 

My take is one shouldn't be naive about stuff but when you are coming from a perspective of paranoia and that everything is lies that is the reality you will have as your viewpoint will always be skewed because you come from a place biased that everything is conspiracy off the get go, rather than being unbiased.  You in fact are creating the conspiracy yourself not anyone behind the scenes.  

Makes sense, but this kind of idea is also a very good weapon for gaslighting. For a sexually abused woman, she may say: "that guy raped me." Then people may think: "oh, no, that guy is such a good person. He would never do that to anyone. She's a lier." And people who were sexually abused can feel harshly how it is to be called a lier by other people even if they are telling the truth.

It may seem extreme, but the same thing can happen with conspiracy theories. I'm not saying conspiracy theories are true, or right, or wrong, whatever, I'm just saying that, just because you think it's not true, doesn't mean it's not valid or even not true.

Let's remember how people such as Galileo Galilei and Darwin suffered from the status quo.

P.S.: I don't believe conspiracy theories are true, but I just read about them and consider their points of view (I'm very open-minded).

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

Makes sense, but this kind of idea is also a very good weapon for gaslighting. For a sexually abused woman, she may say: "that guy raped me." Then people may think: "oh, no, that guy is such a good person. He would never do that to anyone. She's a lier." And people who were sexually abused can feel harshly how it is to be called a lier by other people even if they are telling the truth.

 

Well we have laws and court systems for that.

14 minutes ago, brugluiz said:

 

Let's remember how people such as Galileo Galilei

That really wasn't a conspiracy   More of a paradigm shift.  The Church refused look in the microscope!

[brugluiz]

17 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well we have laws and court systems for that.

That really wasn't a conspiracy   More of a paradigm shift.  The Church refused look in the microscope!

Yeah, but you may agree that women feel disencouraged to report the guy because, you know, she may be seen as a lier even if she tells rhe truth(since going to the court is also dangerous because, if she didn't win or get enough proofs, she may have to face disapproval of society and be at risk of the own perpretrators)?

Aren't conspiracy theories about paradigms shift? Or is Bill Gates always a good man no matter which paradigm you believe?

[Consept]

One thing just to throw in though, theres no real non-duality teachers, that ive heard anyway, speak about conspiracy theories, so Leo isnt alone in this, make of that what you will. Either they dont think theyre important or relevant or theyre part of the conspiracy. 

I just searched for Sadhguru and conspiracy theories on youtube, theres one where he answers a direct question, the answer is quite vague to be honest, but the comments section is interesting as many of the comments which usually support him are against him on this one saying that he has been 'gotten to' so i found that interesting. Anyway video link below -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUJ9jA8XWM

[DivineSoda]

Quote

One thing just to throw in though, theres no real non-duality teachers, that ive heard anyway, speak about conspiracy theories, so Leo isnt alone in this, make of that what you will. Either they dont think theyre important or relevant or theyre part of the conspiracy. 

That's the problem with relinquishing your ability to truly think freely to external authority/expert figures.. whether they be scientists, institutions, or non-dual teachers. You like so much what they say about certain things, that all their words now have some impact on your own belief and thought structure. You lose the ability to freely distinguish and discern truth for yourself. 

Personally, if someone like Sadhguru says something.. my internal reaction is something like "huh, is that so?". Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Consept]

9 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

That's the problem with relinquishing your ability to truly think freely to external authority/expert figures.. whether they be scientists, institutions, or non-dual teachers. You like so much what they say about certain things, that all their words now have some impact on your own belief and thought structure. You lose the ability to freely distinguish and discern truth for yourself. 

Personally, if someone like Sadhguru says something.. my internal reaction is something like "huh, is that so?". Nothing more, nothing less. 

9 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

 

20 hours ago, brugluiz said:

 

On 09/04/2020 at 1:55 AM, DivineSoda said:

 

@brugluiz

@DivineSoda

I mean a few assumptions there, I never said I agreed with non-dual teachers on this, I would never take whatever they say wholesale, in fact how I see the teacher isn't and shouldn't be important, only the teaching. The title of this thread is why doesn't Leo believe in conspiracy theories and I was pointing out that its also the case with many teachers. The only conspiracy person that I've come that resonates with me a little is David Icke and of course not everything he says. 

You're projecting on me how I feel about certain things, which is cool you can do it but it doesn't really further the debate 

[brugluiz]

@Consept can't remember what I said. I think we haven't chatted yet.

[DivineSoda]

24 minutes ago, Consept said:

@brugluiz

@DivineSoda

I mean a few assumptions there, I never said I agreed with non-dual teachers on this, I would never take whatever they say wholesale, in fact how I see the teacher isn't and shouldn't be important, only the teaching. The title of this thread is why doesn't Leo believe in conspiracy theories and I was pointing out that its also the case with many teachers. The only conspiracy person that I've come that resonates with me a little is David Icke and of course not everything he says. 

You're projecting on me how I feel about certain things, which is cool you can do it but it doesn't really further the debate 

Please don't take what I said personally. Your comment had utility to the conversation so I had to quote it, and I'm glad you said it ?.

There are non-dual teachers that speak of conspiracies. They exist. But it's not just about the teaching is it? It has something to do with the teacher, that's why you picked another prominent, well-respected expert-figure like Sadhguru. 

That's the essence of this conversation. We place extra value (however minuscule) on the words of authority figures we respect (consciously or unconsciously). I realize you never said you agreed with Sadhguru. But you also said make of it what you will.

I'm saying, make nothing of it. Not Sadhguru, not Leo. 

And again, this isn't a comment about you personally. I'm speaking generally to all including myself. ❤️ 

[Parththakkar12]

There is one thing David Icke said which I can confirm is 100% accurate : The mainstream leadership DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT about the general public. They will propagate whichever 'truth' serves their agendas, damn the consequences to everyone else. Now I haven't done a lot of research, but I have done a little bit of contemplation. The conclusion I've come to is that it's perfectly possible that the elites are lying through their teeth about a bunch of important stuff. What he says is not only very well within the realm of possibility, it is the logical conclusion of the way people live and the system we have. Look at my posts on the threads 'Collective Ego Mega-Thread' and 'Creating Social Change' for my reasoning behind this.

People expect the leadership to be just, fair, responsible people who govern them democratically, without understanding the brute realities of collective survival. We have a part to play in the proper functioning of democracy, and that is to do our own research and find the truth for ourselves. If people don't take responsibility for their citizenry, we get an authoritarian totalitarian state which uses every trick under its sleeve to gain control of people's minds, their realities. At Stage Orange, they won't overtly take away your freedoms, they'll instead control your reality, what you believe according to the materialist paradigm and use technology to their advantage. There are oligarchs up there who will not bat an eyelid when it comes to peddling a narrative which serves their agenda.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Parththakkar12]

Another important thing : The demonization of 'conspiracy theorists' or whstle-blowers is something that is used by the mainstream leadership as a Blue/Orange tactic to suppress perspectives that go against the narrative they try to peddle. There's a very specific reason this works : Most people are ideological, i.e. by definition, SD Tier 1 cannot hold 2 opposing ideologies in their mind without getting attached to either one of them. They will be attached to the authority meeting their needs. In exchange for this, people (especially SD Stage Blue) will buy into the narrative hook line and sinker and get attached to it cuz they essentially worship the authority! If they don't buy into the narrative, they have to admit that they're being deceived by their leaders, who are supposed to have their best interests at heart (like a parent would), which is waaay too painful to admit for them. It would mean massive change in their perspectives and in the world/system they live in, which they fear the most.

What this means is 'conspiracy theorist' becomes a pejorative term and it can be used as a term of collective slander. Slander tactics are employed by the leaders in order to create a perception of us vs them, like 'Those evil conspiracy theorists/quacks/hacks/phonies/nutcases/traitors/heretics/cult leaders/money-greedy people will try to corrupt/infect/fill your mind with all sorts of nonsense BS, but we're here to protect you from them as we care about our civilization/culture, which is the best civilization...'

Slander is a well-known tactic used by mainstream media to create collective distortion of your perception in order to collectively incite panic/hatred/disdain/contempt/disgust/fear/anger relative to the object of your slander. A prime example of this is Fox News. They will slander people who are against Trump and call out his shenanigans, people who are pro-choice, people who want any sort of change. They will sneak in their judgements in their 'objective reporting' and create potential for rumor.

There is only one solution to this : The whole society evolves to understand that morality is relative and judgements are subjective. Because we are attached to being good people at all costs, being judged negatively is equivalent to death. Only raising of the collective consciousness can resolve this situation. As far as conspiracy theorists go, I think they deserve a fair chance because of the nature of our hierarchical systems and the way our collective survival works.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Consept]

10 hours ago, DivineSoda said:

Please don't take what I said personally. Your comment had utility to the conversation so I had to quote it, and I'm glad you said it ?.

There are non-dual teachers that speak of conspiracies. They exist. But it's not just about the teaching is it? It has something to do with the teacher, that's why you picked another prominent, well-respected expert-figure like Sadhguru. 

That's the essence of this conversation. We place extra value (however minuscule) on the words of authority figures we respect (consciously or unconsciously). I realize you never said you agreed with Sadhguru. But you also said make of it what you will.

I'm saying, make nothing of it. Not Sadhguru, not Leo. 

And again, this isn't a comment about you personally. I'm speaking generally to all including myself. ❤️ 

No worries i take your point and i agreed with your earlier article as well which i thought was very good.

However i feel that we should put the same scrutiny on conspiracy theories and theorists, not to make them look bad for the sake of it but to actually seek the relative truth without a load of nonsense distracting everyone and making conspiracy theorists look crazy. As @Parththakkar12 said and agree with the mainstream does not give a shit about the public thats very obvious if you think about it for a second, so no doubt there are plenty of conspiracies all over the place designed to get people to work so those above them can profit (slavery with more steps as Rick & Morty say lol). What i find with the conspiracy culture is theres just too much involved in it that makes an objective take on them near impossible.

I use the world culture because thats exactly what they evolve into, with that comes so many blocks to truth, including confirmation bias, paranoia, the fact that for some their whole lives are wrapped up in whether the earth is flat for example, that means they make income, have their social groups tied up in their beliefs. This all means they are not coming at it from a truth seeking perspective, they need this to be true. For me this just echoes something like religion which is why people think theyre crazy. In reality there are probably some strands of truth in what they say but because its so clouded in all these other issues theyll never get to the truth. 

 

[LaucherJunge]

I also really feel like people are not careful enough with the distinction here.
According to conspiracy theories the term conspiracy theory was invented by the CIA, make of that whatever you want, just wanted to mention it.
Just notice how you create this label conspiracy theory and now can just put anything you wish to under that label, nobody is gonna check for evidence nobody is gonna oppose it because he is going to get discredited and ridiculed.
It's become one of the main strategies of authorities nowadays to use such labels in order to shut people up. Racism or sexism is another good example for this, not that there is no factual base for racist or sexist people to exist, but somehow the media manages to create deep deception on these topics and label whatever they want in such terms without really going into any evidence and facts what so ever or just taking doctored facts at best in some cases. So this is basically the same. Do sexists exist? Yes, but not everyone who is termed a sexist really is sexist, same goes for racism and same goes for conspiracy theories as well. What gives you the right to discredit and ridicule people if you don't even know what they know? What if you dug that deep into these topics and had the same information as they do? It's simply a weaponized use of prejudice to shut up anything that's opposing the narrative of whoever is benefiting from this system the most.
What is this discussion even about, believing in conspiracy theories or not? What a silly question if you think it through really.
Many "conspiracy theories" have been proven to actually be FACT and who was it that decided it wasn't fact?! Ask yourself these questions and you actually might wake up to a whole new world of conspiracy facts. I would encourage to actually keep this term conspiracy theory out of your belief system and just research for yourself what is true and what is not true if you even care about it. Obviously not everyone cares to dig deep into such things and that's totally fine, but why would such a person even be allowed to discredit others who actually do?
What actually should be censored are people who oppose free speech and research on such topics.
 

Edited April 11, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[Consept]

@LaucherJunge

Very good points, ultimately we have to have a society that allows us to question what the powers that be tell us and yes it would make complete sense for those powers that be to discredit all theories esp if theyre even a little bit close to truth. I also agree that we shouldnt make an identity for theorists which put them in a different class of people that should be dismissed as 'crazy'. But and this is just from what ive seen speaking to people and looking at different perspectives, not all but a lot of people are almost doing the work of the government in discrediting themselves. How? By not researching properly and just taking memes or hearsay and not holding it to any scrutiny just because it fits the narrative that they have in their head.

Examples of this ive personally experienced, in 2015 there was a viral video posted on youtube of a naked man climbing out of buckingham palace, it was quite easy to debunk this as it was a promotional, fake video for an upcoming tv series "The Royals". Now this was posted on facebook to back up conspiracy theories about the royal family, that theyre hiding stuff etc, but when people who posted this in that way were presented with the debunking they clung onto their theory claiming that the show was just made up to cover their tracks. (heres the debunking - https://www.thatsnonsense.com/naked-man-escapes-buckingham-palace-video-debunked/?fbclid=IwAR2DgAxex96QoL9G-99-RvLt1nvCnTR6eo12_tsdOpxUXf_WyUktj7Js92Y)

Now there maybe many valid theories about the royal family, we're seeing some come out now with Prince Andrew, but the fact that theres so much disinformation spread by those that claim to be truth seekers means that someone like Prince Andrew can operate for longer because we dont know truth from bullshit. So this is where theorists are dangerous, they do the job for the powers that be by just throwing a ridiculous amount of things out there which they claim with 100% assurance, im always suspicious when someone is so sure about something that they havent direct experience of anyway. 

During this current situation there is a lot of info being thrown out about corona virus, and im seeing the same patterns of very little research and just ideas being thrown out. I dont think the ideas themselves are dangerous but its how sure people claim to be about them and how many people jump onboard. 

 

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
It's true that oftentimes people share such fake stuff and some really do claim it to be 100% true which is a problem for sure. I don't see a problem with sharing such material if you don't claim it to be 100% true, I would see it more as a kind of community mind storming effort, because there is so much material and you can't possible check everything youself, you could share it in a community and other people might check for its validity or if it's even a possibility. 
But this problem is honestly not really just with conspiracy theorists but with people in general, even mainstream news is sharing a lot of fake and even fabricated stuff... So this argument actually would go for both sides.
And keep in mind this can always be used as a strategy to further discredit the actual truth seekers by deceiving forces. Anybody can spread such rumors it doesn't have to be real truth seekers.
For me it's just logical that this is happening, when you see that the mainstream isn't being truthful and transparent with the situation people are going to grasp at every single bit of information they can receive outside of this narrative, people oftentimes rely on having someone they can trust and now they need to decide do I trust the fake media or do I trust the truth seekers, now the question is how do you distinguish a truth seeker from a shill.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept
It's true that oftentimes people share such fake stuff and some really do claim it to be 100% true which is a problem for sure. I don't see a problem with sharing such material if you don't claim it to be 100% true, I would see it more as a kind of community mind storming effort, because there is so much material and you can't possible check everything youself, you could share it in a community and other people might check for its validity or if it's even a possibility. 
But this problem is honestly not really just with conspiracy theorists but with people in general, even mainstream news is sharing a lot of fake and even fabricated stuff... So this argument actually would go for both sides.
And keep in mind this can always be used as a strategy to further discredit the actual truth seekers by deceiving forces. Anybody can spread such rumors it doesn't have to be real truth seekers.
For me it's just logical that this is happening, when you see that the mainstream isn't being truthful and transparent with the situation people are going to grasp at every single bit of information they can receive outside of this narrative, people oftentimes rely on having someone they can trust and now they need to decide do I trust the fake media or do I trust the truth seekers, now the question is how do you distinguish a truth seeker from a shill.

Yeah i agree with pretty much everything you said, the mainstream media is just as bad if not worse because the masses listen to them, any and everything is adapted to fit their narrative. But the truth seekers if they want to replace that system have to better in that they are 100% on the side of truth, if not its the same thing dressed as something else. From what ive seen most a willing to bail on the truth the moment their narrative is tested. Yes ideal world we should just brainstorm and those that want to research in depth take those theories and debunk or prove some validity but in most cases that just doesnt happen unfortunately. 

[DivineSoda]

Eric Weinstein just recently put out a podcast episodes regarding conspiracies. If you don't know who he is, look him up. Fully credible scientist, among other things. He does it in a refreshing way he calls, "responsible conspiracy theorizing". It's worth a listen. He was also recently on the Joe Rogan podcast and it was one of the most inspiring episodes I've ever watched (mostly at the end). Check it out:

 

[Epiphany_Inspired]

@Flowerfaeiry @DivineSoda, @LfcCharlie4, @TrynaBeTurquoise, etc. It seems there is somewhat of a consensus that the most relevant theories have to do with censorship/ freedom. Though there also appears to be a perceived division here between the spiritual path folks and the freedom/ rights folks... from a meta perspective perhaps they are different views of the same coin/universe. Like various religions, are all ONE LOVE. Perhaps caution is warranted if our ability to undertake our ego smashing rituals and access crucial wisdom may at present be hindered. One thing which keeps coming to mind is Leo's bear hike: be cautious/ prepared not fearful/ in panic. As actualizers, we have the benefit of extensive training in the the overcoming of our fears of death and uncertainty THANKS LEO!!!. So, how does an actualizer remain cautious and prepared, regarding our freedom/ rights, without succoming to fear of oppression, harm, and distraction?

[Parththakkar12]

One of the implications of Oneness is that everyone has a part in themselves that sees what's true. Some resist it more than others. So, all conflicts in perspective/perception are resolvable and will be resolved given enough time. In a Blue/Orange society though, there is no fundamental belief in the Absolute Truth of Oneness. Say we have a situation in which 2 people perceive 2 different things. The one who agrees with the mainstream more will be considered 'true/right' and the other person will be called 'crazy, deluded, conspiracy theorist'. This is the opposite of what we want to do if we're to raise the collective consciousness.

Once we understand what this whole process of evolution/expansion is, we understand where ideas come from. Original ideas come to you universally as a result of open-minded questioning, contemplation and exploration. The ideas that come to you will be the ones that naturally serve the expansion of the universe, which is all the universe cares about. This is the whole basis of trusting your intuition in consciousness work. In our society though, there is also no awareness of how intuition works, where ideas come from. Stage Blue especially, hasn't stepped into logical autonomy/conceptual autonomy/mental creativity so they don't know what an original idea even means. In fact they don't really believe in original ideas, why would they if their forefathers have figured it all out?! They believe in indoctrination so strongly, that if someone comes up with a crazy idea, they'll say that it's a product of wrong indoctrination. So if someone comes up with crazy-sounding ideas, it will automatically be dismissed as delusion, when in fact the one with the most original ideas is the closest to the truth!