Why doesn't Leo agree with conspiracy theories?

[Moreira]

12 hours ago, SamueLSD said:

No, look how you theorise and become paranoid over subjects which you can never  and will never actually prove in a desperate attempt to feel as if you aren't being lied to, played,  or used as a pawn by "them".

Quit wasting your time and use your mind to do more productive things, and refrain from rudely telling me 

because I have been there and done that, it doesn't take any sort of genius to come up with a fucking conspiracy theory. 

Now being concerned about my health and have an innate hunger of knowledge is "being a paranoid", nice.

Of course this theories will be proven in the future, this has happened already in the case of old dangerous drugs that created malformation and abortions, and the responsabiles are doctors that are already dead and will not pay for it. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Moreira

[Light Lover]

@Flowerfaeiry I don't think he is against them per-se, it is just that this forum is not the place to discuss them (in his opinion) otherwise this forum could end up discussing literally every subject imaginable. From my personal experience MOST 'conspiracies ' are definitely true or have a hint of truth, but that is just me of course, I don't post anything on here anymore about them as I know I will just be ridiculed or it will be taken down. People like Alex Jones doesn't help of course, with his bizarre ranting and raving...giving them a bad name.

[Consept]

My issue with conspiracy theories is that they aim to uncover truth but they actually obscure the truth more than anything else. There's a faith based logic to a lot of claims, they start off 'I believe this theory because someone told me or a watched a YouTube vid or whatever' and then any argument or evidence to the contrary is dismissed ie they planted that evidence to make it look like that etc. 

So if the theorist is not willing to change their mind under any circumstance or any evidence then how would they or anyone know what's true, it then turns into a debate on faith. 

Personally Im always for real truth and that means keeping an open mind both ways, if there's a theory that obviously isn't true then debunk it and move on. Right now there's so much information pouring in, I've heard the dumbest most easily debunkable claims shared as if they're fact, this takes away from any truths that could be uncovered. 

There needs to be challenges to the current system as there's a lot of corruption and probably conspiracies but the way its been done is just making it so that no one has an open mind about them because 99% of the time it's nonsense 

[LfcCharlie4]

Make of this what you will. 

https://www.davidicke.com/article/567615/headline-robert-kennedy-jr-slams-bill-gates-sterilisation-paralysis-vaccines

Using Africans to test Vaccines seems very moral! What a man Gates is! 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/12/23/bill-gates-develops-new-id-tattoo-to-check-for-vaccinations/

Can you not see the issues with these things? 

https://newspunch.com/bill-gates-coronavirus-means-need-digital-certificates-prove-who-received-vaccine/

Do I need to say more?

I also agree many theories are BS, however, researching the truth is what I'm interested in and finding out what is really going on. 

We all want to find existential truth, so why is the relative truth suddenly of no importance? 

[Consept]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Make of this what you will. 

https://www.davidicke.com/article/567615/headline-robert-kennedy-jr-slams-bill-gates-sterilisation-paralysis-vaccines

Using Africans to test Vaccines seems very moral! What a man Gates is! 

https://21stcenturywire.com/2019/12/23/bill-gates-develops-new-id-tattoo-to-check-for-vaccinations/

Can you not see the issues with these things? 

https://newspunch.com/bill-gates-coronavirus-means-need-digital-certificates-prove-who-received-vaccine/

Do I need to say more?

I also agree many theories are BS, however, researching the truth is what I'm interested in and finding out what is really going on. 

We all want to find existential truth, so why is the relative truth suddenly of no importance? 

Relative truth has value, the issue I have is the method that's being used to get there, its like throw as much shit to the wall and see what sticks, the problem is even if something does stick you don't know what's true. 

The articles you posted are essentially just opinions, that's fine but you can't really base these on any kind of truth. A lot of the stuff said about bill Gates has been debunked many times but the thing with the truthers is that they can never accept that they either don't know or that they're wrong, which is what keeps these things going which really makes them faith based ideologies. 

If you check this article it debunks some of the bill Gates stuff and there's are direct misquote that have led to conspiracies - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bill-gates-vaccinations-depopulation/

[DivineSoda]

I wrote this article the other day regarding this exact topic. If you have time, I think it's worth a read:

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During the Coronavirus pandemic, a lot of conspiracy theories have been floating around the Internet ranging from it’s a man-made bio-weapon virus, to it’s a 5G radiation thing.. either way Bill Gates is involved. Most people would automatically roll their eyes at these theories, because they’ve heard them many times before and have already made up their minds about how they feel about the subject. If someone were to ask me I would say: I don’t know. I simply don’t know for sure either way, and neither do you. You believe, one way or another. And there’s a big difference. To the people who believe in conspiracies, and to those who do not: this is for you.

TO THE CONSPIRACY THEORISTS…

Okay I get it, why must I pick on you first? Don’t worry, I will get to the non-believers in a minute. But I have a special soft spot for conspiracy theorists because I myself was once one. You may be thinking, impossible! Once you’re awake you don’t go back to sleep! Suspicious! Well just hold your horses. I never said I’m going back on what I once learned to be true. The things I’ve seen have very much shaped who I am today and how I view the world.

But I will admit, after years of intensely reading up on all the classic conspiracies and fully going down the rabbit hole, I’ve dropped it. Discovering difficult truths in my external world compelled me to go inward and discover the truth of who I am as an individual. As within, so without. Here’s what I learned.. ready? There is a higher truth/order that is above even the wildest overarching conspiracies. You thought you knew everything, and then there was more. Life is multi-dimensional and you are stuck in this one dark version of reality. To all the truth seekers out there I plead, don’t stop there.. keep going.

Look, I get it. There is no higher aspiration in life than truth. Truth = Consciousness = Light = Love = God. If truth is all we have, then there should be no higher aspiration than to go around preaching your beliefs about conspiracies to everyone you know, right? Very noble. But let me ask you, how is that going for you? Do you feel more connected to the world? When you look around and see what’s happening in our society, do you like what you see? Are you truly happy? I know what it feels like. It’s a bitter-sweet concoction of utter despair and simultaneous sense of grandeur that you know something others don’t. And that makes you better, or more “woke”.

But the thing is, you don’t know. You believe. You can clearly see the lies, illusions and cover-ups.. and so do I. But you don’t really know the truth behind it all. That much you speculate. For example I hear, “Oh the Coronavirus is a man-made virus designed to crash the global economy and usher in the NWO’s Agenda 21. I know this.. because 9/11.” It’s like, what? It’s certainly plausible given all the other crazy things they’ve done. But you can’t possibly know that for sure. You watched a few videos, read a few articles, put 2 and 2 together, and you’re on-board. You believe, and thus have exchanged one delusion for another.

But I invite you to take a step back from all of this for just one moment. Ask yourself some deeper questions. What is the meaning of life? Why are you here? What happens when you die? Are you just a mere human living out a finite life in a fixed timeline? When the powers that be finally wipe us all out and go on living their utopia on Earth, is that it? You believe you’re a separate individual from other people, especially TPTB.. but is that so?

If there’s one thing I’ve learned on my journey, it’s that this thing we call reality is far stranger than we could ever imagine. Ancient wisdom suggests that this entire experience is akin to an illusion or dream. So who are you to say that others are asleep when you yourself could be dreaming? You have no idea what is real and what is not. Nobody does. Always leave room in your understanding for the unknown. There has never existed on the face of this Earth a human being that knew it all.

Now let me digress. Despite everything I just said, I feel you.. very much. You are just trying to spread the truth and end the suffering on this planet for yourself and all beings. There is indeed a certain nobility to that. But going around exposing conspiracies is not the only way. What do you think is going to happen if all the secrets get revealed once and for all? We can then live in a utopia? No, we wont. Sooner or later we will end up creating the same mess for ourselves, over and over again because we haven’t addressed the root cause. You. What happens in our reality is a reflection of what goes on inside you. Inside all of us. It’s a co-creation. As within, so without.

You cannot expect to fully understand your external reality without understanding the truth of who you are inside. They are intrinsically connected, you cannot escape that. In that regard, this whole fucked up reality we’re currently experiencing is a blessing. It’s forcing us to wake up and face the truth (inside and out). This is a process and it’s happening right now, all over the world. We are in fact, waking up. It’s happening. And that process doesn’t end with revealing the secrets of those who govern us. It’s a revelation that goes far deeper than that.

So to all the conspiracy theorists out there, stop isolating yourselves from the world. You are one in the same. Go deeper in your mission to seek the truth. Be humble and know that you don’t know it all. Speak your truth when it feels right in the moment, but don’t waste all your life force energy on conspiracy theories. Be smart about it. This process is unfolding as it may and there is every reason to be optimistic, even in the face of such chaos.. because if you open your eyes (and I mean really open them), you will begin to see the unseen.

TO THE NON-BELIEVERS…

You too believe you know it all. It’s so very obvious how silly conspiracy theories are right? You’ve looked into them before and they don’t pass your bullshit test. Well, you’re certainly in good company. You have the vast majority of the world on your side, especially the experts and people smarter than even you. But you believe in conspiracies too, you just don’t realize it.

For example, the way the U.S. convinced the world that we needed to invade Iraq in 2003. That was a conspiracy. People conspired to garner consensus based on false information. The media was complicit, whether they were aware of it or not. And they did it, just like they always do. They say the war is for one reason (to get rid of bad guys), and it turns out there were other motives all long. That one was obvious, but do you know how many other wars were played out like this? Have you really studied our history deeply? Studied meaning spent a substantial amount of time and effort into research. And not just the books you like, but the ones that try to tell the truth that you will never read in our approved history books (Noam Chomsky, for example). Have you given these books a chance? How many?

I know.. who really has the time for that these days? Besides, other people have studied those things and have already given you the gist of what/how to think. What you do accept is how badly the world is in decline. That much you can see (and complain about). Our politics are corrupt, mainstream media is biased, we’re destroying our environment, our climate is changing, we’re constantly being warned how much time we have left to fix things before it’s too late, they screwed Bernie Sanders once again, Donald Trump is a maniac. Etc. Etc. You can see that. But then your ego gets in the way. You think you know the solution, because whatever ideology you subscribe to rants about how to fix it all the time. And you parrot this to others as if these were original thoughts.

We just need the right President, Obama was good, Trump is bad, more people need to vote, we all need to drive Tesla’s and buy more re-usable bags and recycle more, the Republicans are holding us back, we need to believe in science more, war is bad but sometimes necessary, Communism is bad, Capitalism is better, China/Russia/Iran are evil, the U.S. is a force for good, other people’s stupidity and ignorance is the problem, Wall Street is the problem, middle America is the problem, religion is the problem, etc, etc. You more or less have it figured out.

"They call it the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

Back to conspiracies.. what ideas or words come up for you when you hear the term “conspiracy theory”? Crazy? Fake news? Not real? Tin-foil hat? What if I told you that those ideas were not your original thoughts? You got them from outside and have adopted them as your own. That’s exactly what is happening. Conspiracies exist, often. I’m not talking about aliens, or reptilian overlords, or the flat earth. I’m talking about exposed truths that you hear about in even the mainstream news. When stuff like that leaks into the public domain, you are getting just a taste of the truth. Just enough so the pressure is released, but not enough to compel you to dig deeper.

Conspiracies and cover-ups exist, that is a historical fact. But one of the biggest fallacies that prevents people from mentally accepting the bigger ones like 9/11, is the notion that so many people have to be in on it. So it can’t be possible. In reality, they don’t all need to be in on it. Perhaps a few key players, sure. But everyone does not need to be in on it. Many will play their role in the lie/illusion without even realizing it. Why? Because the system itself is based on a false paradigm of reality. One where in general, there is trust that the government cares about it’s own people. Incompetence sure, but never direct malice. That’s just not possible, right?

The bottom line is, if you’ve looked into these things and not seen anything earth shattering, you’re not looking deep enough. Your simple google searches aren’t going to do it. Your YouTube videos aren’t going to do it. Reading online discussions and comments are not going to do it. If you want the real truth, you have to dig deeper. There are plenty of books that will cover this kind of stuff, some better than others. Some are absolute shit. I’ve yet to come across one that isn’t biased and speaks only truth. But the information is there in plain sight. You just have to do the work.

A truly self-actualized, free-thinking individual is one that consciously practices radical open-mindedness. Only then can you even have the opportunity to consider the real, in-depth information. Not just the superficial “Here’s what you need to know” stuff. This is what’s lacking in today’s world. We’re too distracted. Too stressed. Too afraid to ask questions, especially those that are not socially acceptable. But that’s the most important thing in a free society. It’s the only thing that can hold our leaders accountable for what they do. It’s even one of the paramount founding principles of this country. Things like a free press. We don’t have a free press today. Not on TV, not on the Internet. We have censorship. And it’s getting worse. This is exactly what books like 1984 warned us about.

FREE YOUR MIND

At some point, we have to let go of our ideas of right and wrong. Our self-righteousness. We have to open our minds, especially if we believe they are already open. Go further. Question everything. Don’t shame others for doing so. Let go of all ideologies, no matter how noble they may seem. Let go of your allegiances to your identities: your political party, your social cause, your nation, yourself. Accept that you do not know everything, and then fulfill your moral obligation to know more. There is always more. Never stop growing. Always leave room for the unknown.

In this process, go inward. Look at yourself and your own actions. Are they in alignment with the world you claim to wish to see? Become aware of your judgments of others. Even if you think you are right and they are wrong. Know that people out there are slaves to their own minds. They are victims of their own intellect and imagination. And so too are you. So am I. That’s okay. We can come together at a place where we can be compassionate where we differ, and respect each other for where we are the same. This is the only way we can truly create a better world for ourselves. Through love, not fear. The time is now.

Free. Your. Mind. ❤️

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
Are you serious about this snopes article?
That's really the problem with people who are much against conspiracy theories. There are all kinds of nuts people out there obviously and just because a few people jumped to conclusions and believe in him saying a specific quote even though he didn't is now supposed to be a debunk of that theory? That's complete bullshit.
Anyone can make claims that can be disproven, Snopes is actually known to be one of the only so called "fact checkers" who censors all around the net, censors for who with what authority? How do they decide what a conspiracy is, who gave them the right to do so?
Everyone can fabricate a claim that's simply false and easy to disprove and as a result discredits the theory the claim was pointing to.
Same with every conspiracy, just because some people speculate doesn't mean they claim 100% truth on everything and it doesn't mean that you disproving one of many possibilities of the theory makes the bigger picture theory invalid.
Just imagine there are dozens or hundreds of points of evidence some stronger then others and you don't even necessarily know about all of them personally and someone comes along and disproves a single of of these points of evidence that you don't even know and tells you your theory is wrong because of that. It's like, what mate? I don't even know what you are talking about.

[DivineSoda]

1 hour ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept
Are you serious about this snopes article?
That's really the problem with people who are much against conspiracy theories. There are all kinds of nuts people out there obviously and just because a few people jumped to conclusions and believe in him saying a specific quote even though he didn't is now supposed to be a debunk of that theory? That's complete bullshit.
Anyone can make claims that can be disproven, Snopes is actually known to be one of the only so called "fact checkers" who censors all around the net, censors for who with what authority? How do they decide what a conspiracy is, who gave them the right to do so?
Everyone can fabricate a claim that's simply false and easy to disprove and as a result discredits the theory the claim was pointing to.
Same with every conspiracy, just because some people speculate doesn't mean they claim 100% truth on everything and it doesn't mean that you disproving one of many possibilities of the theory makes the bigger picture theory invalid.
Just imagine there are dozens or hundreds of points of evidence some stronger then others and you don't even necessarily know about all of them personally and someone comes along and disproves a single of of these points of evidence that you don't even know and tells you your theory is wrong because of that. It's like, what mate? I don't even know what you are talking about.

Correct. Snopes is mostly garbage, do not fall for it. 

[Consept]

3 hours ago, LaucherJunge said:

@Consept
Are you serious about this snopes article?
That's really the problem with people who are much against conspiracy theories. There are all kinds of nuts people out there obviously and just because a few people jumped to conclusions and believe in him saying a specific quote even though he didn't is now supposed to be a debunk of that theory? That's complete bullshit.
Anyone can make claims that can be disproven, Snopes is actually known to be one of the only so called "fact checkers" who censors all around the net, censors for who with what authority? How do they decide what a conspiracy is, who gave them the right to do so?
Everyone can fabricate a claim that's simply false and easy to disprove and as a result discredits the theory the claim was pointing to.
Same with every conspiracy, just because some people speculate doesn't mean they claim 100% truth on everything and it doesn't mean that you disproving one of many possibilities of the theory makes the bigger picture theory invalid.
Just imagine there are dozens or hundreds of points of evidence some stronger then others and you don't even necessarily know about all of them personally and someone comes along and disproves a single of of these points of evidence that you don't even know and tells you your theory is wrong because of that. It's like, what mate? I don't even know what you are talking about.

I wasn't attempting to disprove any particular conspiracy theory and I'm not even necessarily against conspiracy theories. My point was that majority of theories I see are just people throwing out wild claims or things they've heard from someone else, when I look into it they have no evidence or even reasoning really. Now that's cool anyone can say what they want but if there are true conspiracies out there which I'm sure there are, it diminishes their believability by having so much false information about. It's like people are doing the work of the government or whoever for them by making themselves sound unbelievable. 

Like I said they start off with an idea and then manipulate and change evidence to back up that idea, to me that's not truth seeking, if you're seeking truth on this level your research should take you where it takes you. It's very important to question what we're being told but I just think the way it's being done has almost turned in to religion in of itself 

[DivineSoda]

Quote

It's like people are doing the work of the government or whoever for them by making themselves sound unbelievable. 

Bingo. And on the Internet, you don't know who is real, and who is not. It's designed to look crazy so you look the other way. Also of course, there are legit lower consciousness people peddling this stuff.

But like you said, let your research take you where it takes you. I'm convinced you have not looked into this deeply. It takes a lot of work. A lot of reading and open mindedness. Google searches, online comments, and YouTube videos are not going to do it.

Forget about Corona conspiracies. There is not enough evidence as of yet. Go back in our history and start there.

[Consept]

11 minutes ago, DivineSoda said:

Bingo. And on the Internet, you don't know who is real, and who is not. It's designed to look crazy so you look the other way. Also of course, there are legit lower consciousness people peddling this stuff.

But like you said, let your research take you where it takes you. I'm convinced you have not looked into this deeply. It takes a lot of work. A lot of reading and open mindedness. Google searches, online comments, and YouTube videos are not going to do it.

Forget about Corona conspiracies. There is not enough evidence as of yet. Go back in our history and start there.

I'm not blind to it, in fact I used to be quite into it. I understand the structure and I like to piece things together it's just for me personally, I didn't really see the point in just finding more content especially when you have to sift through so much rubbish to get there. I think a better pursuit for me is going within and really contemplating things from that space, this leads to a better understanding of people in general. Things like conspiracies can be a distraction not just from that but from actual real issues that you could change, for example is it that important whether we went to the moon or not, if you're gonna protest why not fight for a universal basic income which will wipe out the issue of poverty (I know there's arguments for and against, just an example). Or why not fight to get a better quality of life esp in the states, many European citizens have fought for that in their respective countries and gained it from their jobs with extra paid holidays, reasonable work hours etc.

To me it's like there's plenty we can change but the conspiracy movement seems to just want to complain about issues true or not and it can be damaging as it takes away from real issues going on. But I understand its a part of the journey people go on and maybe its unavoidable but just throwing in my opinion 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Consept Funny you mention UBI, wouldn't it be amazing to know that UBI could be an incredible thing, but in reality could also be rolled out as a form of control in the transition to AI taking most jobs and people having no other form of income, so having to behave like the Gov tell them.

I agree whether we went to the moon or not who cares. 

Who is really running and controlling the world and the truth about this relative reality is what I'm interested in. Just like we are all interested in absolute truth. 

[LaucherJunge]

@Consept
It's just an idea that being a conspiracy theorist keeps you from doing inner work, it's simply not true. There are phases where the inner world is more important and there are phases in life where the exterior world has to be integrated and there will always be a kind of balancing act between the two.

Fighting for a better world is exactly what we are doing. These people who are behind all those conspiracies are the reason for most of our misery and I am not saying that you can't be happy with life as it is, you can always be happy no matter what circumstances by doing inner work but you can also start spreading awareness of what's really going on and eventually free the world from this modern slavery which then will lead the the so called golden age... But it's easy to miss this point, without looking deeply into this darkness in our humanity how are we supposed to bring light into the world? Sure you can do inner work and illuminate your inner shadows but what's next, spreading the knowledge to others and the more freedom there is in the world the more people are going to be illuminated.

Edited April 9, 2020 by LaucherJunge

[LfcCharlie4]

@LaucherJunge A lot of Astrologers and ancient cultures pointed to 2020 being a crucial year for the so called “golden age” but as we know, there is always chaos before the order. I feel this will be an even more chaotic year than we have seen so far...

[Consept]

Good discussion btw guys 

@LfcCharlie4 Yeah UBI it could be good or could be a control thing but it will always come down to perspective if you believe the government is always trying to control you then youll believe anything they do will be a form of control, probably the truth is somewhere in the middle where they want a balance of control and happiness (or at least numbness) for us. I like to believe that with the emergence of people like Sanders, Yang and Corbyn it shows a shift toward being the kind of society we all talk about on here, 10-20 years ago their ideas wouldve been laughed out of politics but now theyre getting to very decent positions and gaining strong followings, so this shows the political spectrum is changing. Objectively youd also say Republicans have also shifted and become slightly more tolerant, Trump is a really a throwback and probably wouldnt have been questioned as much had he run in the 50s for example.

Lets say you find out whos running things and its Johnny Rockerfeller, whats the plan then? (thats not a sarcastic question lol)

I agree with you that this year of chaos will bring about change, there are so many people forced to go within and look at how their 'lives' can just be taken away like that, so is what you were doing so important? This whole corona thing has lifted the veil up on whats real and whats not, we can see that trump and johnson are useless at times of crisis, we can see you dont need to travel to work everyday, we can see they can just give everyone money, so i think the reality we thought knew has now changed.

@LaucherJunge I agree there are phases of inner and outer work, but my main point is that most conspiracy chasing is based upon the premise that whatever conspiracy you got its 100% true and any evidence or argument that disputes it is wrong. That is really organised religion territory, my auntie believes that dinosaur bones were planted by scientist in order to disprove God. So if at the root there are half truths, confirmation bias etc, lets say the people take over because of this information, then eventually someone else will rise up and point out where all these conspiracies have holes and rebel. I believe inner work is important because its the only way to have a true lasting change, we've been there before in human history where people have been pushed to believe something, communism, Nazism, all had believable arguments at the time and people were convinced but they didnt work because there is no truth to them. I believe we have to work on being able to truly differentiate between whats true and not and that comes from trusting ourselves 100% and not relying on some external force. You may not see it see but truthers have a very specific view of the world most of which has been arrived at through sheer belief, im not saying what some of what they say is not factually correct but the overall belief system is just that a belief system   

 

[Milos Uzelac]

@DivineSoda Thanks for the well and meticulously crafted text and experiences share, put me at ease before reacting on some comments that I think are lacking in research and terminological nuance and precision (for example as I read Marxist) in certain topics and exhibited some judgements that were biased based on, I assume, that certain persons past experiences identity and personal survival outlook and negative experiences with it. Like myself presented here for example 5g EMF effects etc. in other areas where I lack knowledge. Blessings to you and thanks again, have to get on my procrastinated work now ?

Edited April 9, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[DivineSoda]

@Milos Uzelac ? Glad you liked it.

[brugluiz]

I wish people here could understand better about NARCISSIST x CODEPENDENT dynamics. It explains a lot why UBI can be very dangerous to population.

My view on that is, if Leo isn't bypassing spiritually, it's okay to avoid conspiracy theories.

[Consept]

5 hours ago, brugluiz said:

I wish people here could understand better about NARCISSIST x CODEPENDENT dynamics. It explains a lot why UBI can be very dangerous to population.

My view on that is, if Leo isn't bypassing spiritually, it's okay to avoid conspiracy theories.

On 09/04/2020 at 1:55 AM, DivineSoda said:

 

@brugluiz

Could you elaborate on why UBI would be dangerous? I'm not necessarily arguing for it, I just used it as an example but I'd be interested in the arguments against it

[LfcCharlie4]

@brugluiz This is so true, if people become dependent on the state and those in charge lack empathy and are narcissists, and lets be real most people who are really in charge aren’t great people. 
 

We could genuinely get to a situation- you don’t behave how I tell you, your family aren’t being fed. Hopefully not though!