Collective Ego Mega-Thread

[Parththakkar12]

Hey everyone! Please post crazy/insane/merciless/dysfunctional/interesting examples of collective ego survival on this thread.

[Parththakkar12]

40 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

If you look at a Collective Ego, the way it survives is in the most base, shallow way you can possibly imagine! Individual humans are generally good, decent, compassionate but when you become part of a collective, all sorts of abuse/dysfunction starts becoming justified. The collective will do whatever the fuck it takes to survive without mercy. If it has to sacrifice individuals for it, it will. If my religion says that you're an evil devil who should be eliminated, the collective will guiltlessly and shamessly burn you at the steak, with an added sense of moral righteousness. If it has to kill, cheat, steal, colonize, milk donors, sue the competing corporation, eliminate dissident groups, suppress minorities, reduce transparency, cover its ass, suck in resources/grants to meet base needs, it will! Entire bureaucracies/legal systems are set up to facilitate this, and individuals working in those bureaucracies are blind to this as they're 'just following orders'.

• Collective egos are very shallow and materialistic. They react massively to base carnal temptations, which explains a lot of marketing strategies when it comes to junk food, sex, fashion industry, social media, entertainment industry, gadgetry, etc.
• Collective egos can also be addicted. If you're part of a group which is addicted to porn/the internet/social media/alcohol/fast food, you'll get sucked in too!
• Collective egos can be very ideological and emotionally reactive. It's very easy to give a hatred-filled speech and rally up mobs to support you in that. Individuals get carried away very easily.
• Collective egos can also seek revenge for perceived injustices. Our jail systems/justice systems are a prime example of this.
• Collective egos can be emotionally reactive/panicky in a threat/dangerous situation. If you fire a gunshot in a crowd, everyone will start running helter-skelter and stampedes could potentially happen! Another example of this is the collective response to COVID-19.
• Collective egos suck up to authority for physical/emotional security and protection. (No examples needed for this one)

[Preety_India]

46 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

 

Stage Blue gets heavily indoctrinated into valuing conformity to these dysfunctions, and that 'serving the collective' is somehow always a noble thing. It can be, but a lot of times it isn't! A lot

In reference to this, I'd like to give examples of certain cults in India, especially a recent cult where people supporting the cult guru gave death threats to anyone leaking secrets or leaving or protesting the cult. 

And a lot of religions in India do that too, instead of collective ego I'll call it mob mentality. 

 

[Raphael]

In a company where a team is too afraid of reveling mistakes to its boss because of his reaction. That's a highly stage blue fear-based reaction that penalizes the entire project in the long run.

[Thewritersunion]

 

[w4read]

The fact that it's only universally acceptable to eat candy on saturdays. Who invented that?

[Milos Uzelac]

On 03/04/2020 at 1:58 PM, Parththakkar12 said:

On 03/04/2020 at 1:15 PM, Parththakkar12 said:

 

• Collective egos can be very ideological and emotionally reactive. It's very easy to give a hatred-filled speech and rally up mobs to support you in that. Individuals get carried away very easily.
• Collective egos can also seek revenge for perceived injustices. Our jail systems/justice systems are a prime example of this.

I've been feeling a lot of this lately when walking out to get supplies and seeing people obediently accept this condition and not feeling any concrete anger directed toward the government casual treatment and lies in the beginning of the spread the virus in my developing economically and mostly blue than orange country but there is, I think, a dual notion to this, rather it depends on the perspective, and socio-economic historical development of current external circumstances.

What we are seeing now, I would argue, is the result of unhealthy and unsensitive overextractory in work and exploitative orange economic policy of those on the top of the hierarchy direct toward an obedient manual labour and office clerk blue, in terms of general global relations on the spiral,   

1.) who has lost the time manueverbility to work on himself, due to longer working hours and stagnant wages, that would enable one to have lifestyle that allows enough free time allocated for one self,   

2.) being financially tied to repaying interest added debt on borrowed loans which restrains purchasing options and requires long term investment saving and thinking, which most people, working those previously mentioned jobs, tied to sustaining their families and raising children have hard time acheiving with these odds and pressure always stacked against them

4) very few opportunities of social mobility up the economic ladder and almost no secure and long term room for re-qualification opportunity chances

Conversly businesses success, personal enrichment and achievement no matter what, orange oriented collective ego, which holds productivity and success in the innovation fields as one of their top values which they, on the top of the income and wealth pyramid measure and value individual humans (they are also often established at the top, for a longer period of time now, an claim most of the earning and most benefit receivings in societal hierarchies) puts the emerging green- embodied in mostly the new technology and virtual savvy and socialised millennial, gen X and Z generations-in the same pressure and position of blue of struggling against the odds in the competitive world but with the difference of having much more in general, in their collective go group, knowledge leeway, options and technological skill demand opportunities to survive through this crisis. 

So in the physical labour productivity and birocratic efficiency collective blue ego which is most of the developing and underdeveloped world now, this upcoming economic pressure will fall hardest on them. 

And therefore I see it as a systemic balance necessity and structural need of sustainability of the current world unfettered and largely unregulated capitalist system, of transnational corporate oligoplies in the international market, that was devised by successful collective ego orange elites to perpetuate and solidify their now endangered economic power structure based on their worldview and ideology, which is what they are attempting to do, since most of the world governments current are unilaterally influenced by them in carrying out their policies and legislation passing. 

It's therefor also justifiable for the development of the blue collective ego, which is most of the planet, and the development opportunities for the whole spiral I think in general, to respond now in the wake and after this crisis, not with obedience and conformity but with rage, demands from orange, collective mobilisation and organising around their common economic interests or as you said emotional reactions and stocked hatred by their ideologues, even if necessary to wake them up from their slumber and display a show of force, total violent disruption and subversion of regular inequality perputing, business as usual, economic activity of corporations and governments alligned with them to scare orange enough to give into some of their demands and to start thinking if cooperating and reform proposals of their more green and even blue value system oriented political opponents in order not to risk an entire system breakdown and even more damage to their wealth generation mechanisms than radically reforming them. 

This an abstract scenario of an developed nation (particularly I had in mind the United States possible coronavirus pandemic social outcome). I realize now I may have a made some mistakes in the spiral dynamics development path. 

But I still think my argument is still valid for the development of the collective ego in general to orange in under-developed blue countries. 

It would be beneficial for their growth and therefor growth of the whole spiral if they as you mentioned:

? Form and fight for a formation of a blue collective ego interest group which, led by mostly green developed and compassionate individuals, would give into emotional reaction to current crisis with rage, orange rationally crafted demands for justice and show of force and willingness to take risk in negation to their previous conformity and obedience, to orange, coated in fake blue regalia and blue political language elite, in order to fool them that they are still one of them, in their respective countries. 

? Have revenshistic and vengeful attitude towards till now calaice orange exploitation and lack of care for their future and their country's national and local economy future, and have again demands for revenge for real perceived injustices stocked by someone more debeloped (in the SD sense), articulate and rational in demand and knowledgeable on the history and nature of their current position than them and willing to take the risk in sticking his neck out for them out of compassion to see a portion of society having opportunities to start developing and having real granted conditions for leading better lives for them, their families and their close communities. That's what I see as the role of some green nuanced intellectuals and activists interested in politics and wider societal state in my generation, I am 21 now. 

Some groups like Blue Labour fraction of the Labour Party in the U.K. now are similarly adopting this strategy, by forming a party by orange and green intellectualls to act as interest group for collective blue blue-collar worker egos, in Britain after Brexit. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[Parththakkar12]

@Milos Uzelac A lot of what you're saying like holding authority accountable, waking up to injustices on a social level happens at Green. This includes forming unions, dissidence towards corporations who don't really care about them and so on. Blue, on the other hand, just blindly obeys authority without questioning it! It's very easy to exploit the Blue collective ego for Orange corporations. Blue people don't really give a damn about anything except just going about their day and not upsetting the status quo too much. Now they will suffer the most because of this, but I still feel that if they don't evolve quickly enough, there's no saving them from this.

[Parththakkar12]

Another important collective ego dynamic which happens with Tier-1 (especially Stage Blue) collective egos : Open-minded people get demonized, ridiculed and ostracized.

Collective egos tend to be closed-minded, dogmatic and ideologically tribal. In such a situation, if you are out there questioning all ideologies and narratives, you will be made fun of, demonized and ostracized because you 'can't see the obvious truth' or you are 'worried about nothing' or you're just flat out 'weird'. This is a huge issue, as collective egos get very heavily attached to the concept of what's 'obviously true' or what's 'true by common sense'. This gives you a license to be closed-minded and dogmatic with no checks and balances of what's actually true. 'The mainstream narrative is the mainstream narrative because it's true' is a huge myth. This is especially evident because the mainstream demonizes and shuts out open-minded people, so the general collective isn't really deriving the mainstream narrative by open-minded investigation. Rather, more often than not, the mainstream narrative is just rumor that spreads through the grapevine of closed-minded people!

Another example of this is the statement : 'If you have a problem with our society, maybe the problem isn't the society, maybe it's you who is the problem. Our society is the best society!'

Being open-minded comes with huge costs in today's society. It will cost you belonging in the mainstream society. You will not really have an ideological tribe. You may even lose out materially/relationally because of it. Most people are too cowardly/chicken-shit to pay these costs for the truth. It's just pure cowardliness and survivalism that's keeping our society unconscious. That's why we have our collective egos battling each other today!

Edited April 15, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Raphael]

14 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Another important collective ego dynamic which happens with Tier-1 (especially Stage Blue) collective egos : Open-minded people get demonized, ridiculed and ostracized.

Collective egos tend to be closed-minded, dogmatic and ideologically tribal. In such a situation, if you are out there questioning all ideologies and narratives, you will be made fun of, demonized and ostracized because you 'can't see the obvious truth' or you are 'worried about nothing' or you're just flat out 'weird'. This is a huge issue, as collective egos get very heavily attached to the concept of what's 'obviously true' or what's 'true by common sense'. This gives you a license to be closed-minded and dogmatic with no checks and balances of what's actually true. 'The mainstream narrative is the mainstream narrative because it's true' is a huge myth. This is especially evident because the mainstream demonizes and shuts out open-minded people, so the general collective isn't really deriving the mainstream narrative by open-minded investigation. Rather, more often than not, the mainstream narrative is just rumor that spreads through the grapevine of closed-minded people!

Another example of this is the statement : 'If you have a problem with our society, maybe the problem isn't the society, maybe it's you who is the problem. Our society is the best society!'

Being open-minded comes with huge costs in today's society. It will cost you belonging in the mainstream society. You will not really have an ideological tribe. You may even lose out materially/relationally because of it. Most people are too cowardly/chicken-shit to pay these costs for the truth. It's just pure cowardliness and survivalism that's keeping our society unconscious. That's why we have our collective egos battling each other today!

That's so true. I got demonized, criticized and insulted a lot in the past by mostly low stage orange/blue people for asking questions and sharing different ideas.

[Parththakkar12]

Another important dynamic: Say you have a collective ego, and say you have a dissident faction inside the collective ego (For example you have a group of employees in a company that don't like their jobs) What the collective ego will do is it will see the dissident faction as a threat and it will immediately stamp it out. This will be done in fear that the dissidence will grow like a cancer and take over the parent ego, thereby killing it.

This is one of the big reasons it is very very difficult to create change on an organizational/social level. A lot of times this involves calling out shadows of the whole organization, which can make you seem like a dissident. Collective egos can be very simple-minded, i.e. it is very difficult for collective egos to think in a nuanced manner, so there is a very very high chance that they will misunderstand/strawman what you're saying. It is very possible that you will come across as a dissident, or someone who is deluded/doesn't know what you're talking about. This will result in you getting burned at the steak/nailed at the cross if you're not careful.

It takes a great deal of intuitive awareness and patience to implement incremental changes in complex collective systems.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Loving Radiance]

Obvious, but noteworthy aspect: Individual ego fits as much into a collective ego as there is the will of the individual to fit in e.g. to be connected by a common cause. Collective activities can enable the individual to realize its previously unknown potential; it can be selfishly utilized as a steppingstone for individual progress.

 

3 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Collective egos can be very simple-minded, i.e. it is very difficult for collective egos to think in a nuanced manner

Isn't this the effect of Einstellung?

3 hours ago, Parththakkar12 said:

It takes a great deal of intuitive awareness and patience to implement incremental changes in complex collective systems.

Agreed, it's a delicate dance and an art to change without opposition.

[Parththakkar12]

1 hour ago, Loving Radiance said:

Isn't this the effect of Einstellung?

That too! The Einstellung thing looks like a subset of what I was talking about. I was talking about the tendency to strawman complex concepts. That is why rules are very simplistic and straightforward, so that there is very little arguability on their meaning. People who want to argue on even the simplest rules can argue their asses off! For example courts, where clever interpretations of rules are formally debated.

[Parththakkar12]

There is a huge reason collective egos are ideological and take one-dimensional stands on certain issues. The reason is that their stand directs their action in a particular situation.

Whenever you are trying to decide how to solve a particular relationship problem or complex social problem, there are a number of perspectives you can take on it. There are a number of approaches you can take to it and there's infinitely many directions you can go with it. It is important that you take a one-dimensional stand that informs your action, such that your action will be concrete, decisive, well-directed and strategic. You will take this stand according to what you believe, what you want from the situation at hand, your total perspective and what you want to do.

If you are a Stage Yellow thinker, your stands on particular issues tend to be nuanced, right? A multi-perspectival approach doesn't work when it comes to taking a stand which will inform your action. Your multi-perspectival approach will work in order to have a broader view of the situation at hand and not miss shit. Ideologues can be myopic, closed-minded and limited in their view. A multi-perspectival, holistic and integrative approach to analyzing the situation can be helpful when you're trying to deeply understand it, analyze it systemically, get to the root causes, etc. However, when it comes to taking action, what you do will depend on what you want from the situation. You will take a one-dimensional stand according to what you want and your action will be directed and informed by that stand you take.

Collective egos are almost always defined by what they want to collectively do in the world. This calls for taking a simple, pragmatic stand and spreading an ideology that serves your objectives. Very rarely will you see a collective ego take a nuanced position on a particular issue for this reason. If you try to inform your action using a complex, nuanced position, it is often seen as indecisiveness. Collective egos are very sensitive to indecisiveness as they're defined by what they do, so they will not tolerate indecisiveness relative to it. Since they're defined by their actions/goals, it's simple - you're either with them or against them. If you aren't decisive about whether you're on their side or not, they will not trust you. They'll kick you out and replace you with someone who is surely on their side. There's nothing nuanced about this decision!

[Raphael]

 

[Lyubov]

This is an example of a collective ego being completely demolished 

A Native American speaking facts and exposing the hypocrisy of conservative anti-immigrant ideology 

[bisseranast]

stressful situations force people to do the most incomprehensible things

[Carl-Richard]

Stoners who say "it's not a drug, it's a plant" or "it's not physically addictive" or "it's medicine" or "it cures cancer" or "it's not as bad as tobacco smoke". All of them are shallow and virtually always fallacious arguments that serve to protect the stoner identity.