Ego in Animals?

[Osaid]

Do animals have ego? To what degree? I can imagine maybe chimps having one, but what about bacteria? Does a bacterium really have a sense of self?

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Osaid

[Victor Mgazi]

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

Do animals have ego?

No

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

I can imagine maybe chimps having one

And that's all it would be, imagination.

4 hours ago, Osaid said:

Does a bacterium really have a sense of self?

A sense of self is really more of a belief than an actual sense. Self is imaginary, and it's through this self that something like a bacterium can exist. Bacteria is also imaginary. There's actually no difference between a bacterium and a human.

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Self is imaginary, and it's through this self that something like a bacterium can exist.

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between the human body and bacteria, and that this idea of self is the only reason I can differentiate it as bacteria?

I have a human brain, doesn't this brain hinder my ability to not have an ego? I imagine for something like a bacterium it would be very easy to have no ego because they do not have a brain like me.

There is no difference between my human body and a bacteria fundamentally speaking, but my human body has a brain which makes it very easy for me to have an ego as compared to other animals. Is this not true?

It's very hard for me to understand this concept for some reason. Thanks for the response.

EDIT: Upon further contemplation, I think I might be starting to understand a little better now. People and bacteria themselves do not have egos, but rather, it is awareness (you) that might attach itself to the human body, thus creating ego. 

But, if your consciousness is experiencing what it feels like to be a human instead of a bacteria, is it still not true that it is easier to develop an ego with a human body rather than a bacterium body?

How come you say ego only exists in humans?

Edited April 2, 2020 by Osaid

[Victor Mgazi]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Are you trying to say that there is no difference between the human body and bacteria

I'm saying that the difference is imaginary. 

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

this idea of self is the only reason I can differentiate it as bacteria?

The idea of a self is the basis for a separate world with separate entities like bacteria and humans. Without you the 'world' doesn't exist. 

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

I have a human brain

That's all imaginary. 

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

but my human body has a brain which makes it very easy for me to have an ego as compared to other animals. Is this not true?

No

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

People and bacteria themselves do not have egos, but rather, it is awareness (you) that might attach itself to the human body, thus creating ego. 

Awareness doesn't attach itself to anything. What is happening is that imagination has layered itself on to consciousness thus literally creating what we call 'reality'. 

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

How come you say ego only exists in humans?

Ego is imagination layering itself on to reality. This is not the ego's imagination, it's consciousness's imagination. Consciousness is capable of ingenuity because it's infinitely intelligent. 

You can be directly aware of what I'm saying here if you do self inquiry and meditation.

[Moreira]

Ego is exclusive for humans.

As Ouspensky said, "we are like robots" run by software, but tthe ego got certain part of influence in the free will.

 

Animals in the other hand are robots run only by software, their reactions, aparent emotions, are complex programs.

[Raphael]

Yes.

I have two dogs, one is more selfish than the other one. When I play with the other one the first one gets jealous and puts himself in front of my face so that I can play with him.

However, I think that it's impossible for an animal to get rid of its ego because animals are not as evolves as humans and because most of them are dealing with basic survival needs every day.

[Prevailer]

4 hours ago, Victor Mgazi said:

No

And that's all it would be, imagination.

A sense of self is really more of a belief than an actual sense. Self is imaginary, and it's through this self that something like a bacterium can exist. Bacteria is also imaginary. There's actually no difference between a bacterium and a human.

Your 2 off EGOS will convince you of any old rubbish though...that’s what they do.They don’t add up when all is said and done...The 2 off EGOS are robotic.

[Prevailer]

Their views depend upon what’s  inputted into the programme.Input rubbish... you get rubbish out.They ‘re just machines that we listen to.

[Victor Mgazi]

13 minutes ago, Prevailer said:

Your 2 off EGOS

Where do they come from? Or where are they exactly?

[Prevailer]

1 minute ago, Victor Mgazi said:

Where do they come from? Or where are they exactly?

They are part of your make up...They are machines in your head that you can’t get away from.THEY HAVE A VOICE.They always counter each other in ANY reasonings in order to keep the balance.They drown out your voice...and as you have convinced yourself that you don’t have a voice .....they dictate to you.You are their prisoner and they just laugh and laugh and laugh at you.

[Osaid]

@Victor Mgazi I understand that everything is ultimately consciousness. I am the lamp in my room and I am also this human body, both are appearances experiencing itself in a system of consciousness.

Why do you think the concept of ego exists only within this experience of being human, and not with other animals like chimps? I don't get it. I can see that they are existentially the same thing, consciousness. But, it is also true that these imaginary appearances which we call reality interact with itself.

The brain is imaginary, but it is an appearance that affects other appearances within consciousness.

If I take drugs (appearance) it will affect my brain (appearance) and how it sees other appearances.

If I get hit in the head with a hammer (appearance) and experience brain injury, this will affect how I see other appearances.

Even though these things are imaginary, they still affect how I experience this imagination we call reality.

Even though my brain is imaginary, it would still affect my ability to create an ego, right?

There are different bubbles of consciousness, in this one I get a direct experience of what it feels like to be in this human body. I cannot see or taste what other people see or taste because I have my own bubble of consciousness which I experience things from. 

Do bacteria not have their own bubble of awareness/consciousness? If they do, then they would lack a brain which can think to form the concept of ego.

Does this not show that certain animals don't/do have ego depending on their physical characteristics?

I am not saying the ego is existential. I know it is illusory, but I don't see why it would only affect humans.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Osaid

[mandyjw]

Animals mirror us, there's not an ego in anything really, but a thought of one. 

[Prevailer]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Animals mirror us, there's not an ego in anything really, but a thought of one. 

Yeah ..your EGO thoughts.

[mandyjw]

20 minutes ago, Prevailer said:

Yeah ..your EGO thoughts.

Yes, and the only thing that dissolves it is love, because guilt or attempting to get rid of it only assumes ownership of it. Self Love. No others, no self. 

The mystery of whether animals have egos is a great one because it shows how we can project all kinds of judgments on animals and they don't give a shit. Honey badger don't care.   You can project an ego on a person and really buy into it without question, but when you project an ego on an animal often something goes, "hold on a minute, that can't be right..." It isn't. That's why the honeybadger narration video is so hilarious. All the problems we have with anybody we interact with are just as hilarious, we just miss the joke. 

Edited April 2, 2020 by mandyjw

[Prevailer]

55 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Yes, and the only thing that dissolves it is love, because guilt or attempting to get rid of it only assumes ownership of it. Self Love. No others, no self. 

The mystery of whether animals have egos is a great one because it shows how we can project all kinds of judgments on animals and they don't give a shit. Honey badger don't care.   You can project an ego on a person and really buy into it without question, but when you project an ego on an animal often something goes, "hold on a minute, that can't be right..." It isn't. That's why the honeybadger narration video is so hilarious. All the problems we have with anybody we interact with are just as hilarious, we just miss the joke. 

No you are incorrect.No Love dissolves Love.You are still stuck in a robotic mindset.

[AlphaAbundance]

@Victor Mgazi I think he is asking if they have an illusionary self. Not if that illusionary self is real.

Within other perspectives or bubbles of consciousness (assuming they exist or if whoever is answering knows they exist), specifically animals do they have the illusions of self known as the ego?

[Prevailer]

10 minutes ago, Prevailer said:

No you are incorrect.No Love dissolves Love.You are still stuck in a robotic mindset.

Or love dissolves no love...

[mandyjw]

21 minutes ago, Prevailer said:

No you are incorrect.No Love dissolves Love.You are still stuck in a robotic mindset.

Haha, good one! Pre veiler? 

[Prevailer]

27 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Haha, good one! Pre veiler? 

The point I’m making is that when it comes to the 2 off EGOS of the computers...it’s just data...Every reasoning gets countered whether you like it or not.If you react...you only react because your EGOS tell you to...they dictate to you.You are their prisoner..They just laugh at you.You can’t come up with some dualist/united ...I am God and there is no other dribble with them ....they just laugh at you while they are countering it.

[Victor Mgazi]

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

Why do you think the concept of ego exists only within this experience of being human, and not with other animals like chimps?

Because there is no other experience for the "concept of ego" to exist in. 

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

There are different bubbles of consciousness, in this one I get a direct experience of what it feels like to be in this human body. I cannot see or taste what other people see or taste because I have my own bubble of consciousness which I experience things from. 

Are you aware of this or is it imagined?

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

Do bacteria not have their own bubble of awareness/consciousness? If they do, then they would lack a brain which can think to form the concept of ego.

Are you aware of any bubbles of consciousness or is it imagined?

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

Does this not show that certain animals don't/do have ego depending on their physical characteristics?

Animals don't have ego and neither do humans. Ego is imagination layering itself on consciousness. Ego is thought/mind assuming form. When ego vanishes the whole world vanishes. Why, because the whole world is imaginary. But again, even the ego itself is imaginary. 

 

3 hours ago, Osaid said:

I know it is illusory, but I don't see why it would only affect humans.

Raise your awareness. Meditate and inquire about self. 

@AlphaAbundance the problem here is that you guys are too busy questioning what's going on out there instead of questioning what's going on in here?. This world you're trying to understand is in your imagination, ego is in your imagination. Leave the worm and other animals out of your shenanigans. 

I could tell you both that the reason why you believe that animals and humans have egos is because you're not yet aware that consciousness is intelligent. But even then it wouldn't do justice. That's why it's important to put in the work and raise your awareness. When you're aware enough you'll see through your own imagination and know how everything is.