Reality Vs Illusion

[Time Traveler]

Hi everybody !

 

I was pondering upon two domains of  self actualization tools:

1) ones that tend to achieve clear vision of " what is"  ( meditation, raising awareness, mindfulness, unconditional love, etc ... )

2) ones that tend to create an illusion of what would be "nice to have" (affirmations, visualization, self hypnosis)

 

Do they contradict ? (E.g. there can be different approaches to deal with pain: immerse into it, detach from it)

Which one is "better" for self growth ?

Maybe they come in sequence, first second, then first ?

Which one gives faster results ?

Maybe these are two sides of one coin ?

 

What do you think ?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Time Traveler

[poimandres]

I'm not sure I understand your listed points. Meditation can provide clear vision of what you have to do. It is also possible to create illusions as well.

It is also possible to "tr"/"convince" yourself (positively or negatively).. Before entering a competition, visualize yourself winning over and over.. etc.

I'm guessing this is why everyone suggests finding a master.

Embrace the pain. This will make you grow and adapt. By struggling, you are forced to learn. No one ever grew by not struggling or detaching from uncomfortable situations. 

There are situations that you have to detach from (situations that aren't worth the breath to argue about). Let those go. So it depends on the situation.

If you want to grow in the sense that you want to be more sociable, then there will be pain and I uncomfortable social situations you will have to embrace, not detach from.

If you are arguing about where to take yoir boyfriend/girlfriend to eat for dinner, detach, this isn't growth anyone is talking about.

 

Faster results? What do you want to happen?

[FindingPeace]

20 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

Which one gives faster results ?

This is the one statement that jumped out at me here.

Everyone wants the fastest shortcut to the results that they are aiming for. Or another way to say this is that noone wants to put in the effort and patience to get genuine growth and genuine, quality, lasting results.

This is the real question you were asking here - which option gives the fastest outcome.

Neither option will give quick, genuine results, but they will give different results for different reasons.

20 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

2) ones that tend to create an illusion of what would be "nice to have" (affirmations, visualization, self hypnosis)

I tend to see this as a way of motivating oneself. Self-talk to motivate positve feelings and actions and get quicker results. However, in theory, this would not be necessary if there was a genuine motivation that comes from a healthy mindset. Which comes from the next point:

20 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

1) ones that tend to achieve clear vision of " what is"  ( meditation, raising awareness, mindfulness, unconditional love, etc ... )

Higher awareness, mindfulness and a clearer view on 'what is' will create more lasting and satisfying results, in time. The irony bieng that this path will likely change your outlook and hence the results you want in the first place. Basically, this path will result in more inner-peace and fulfillment with less external 'success' or 'acheivement'. Less external action.

 

[Time Traveler]

@FindingPeace

Thanks man !

This is what I wanted to hear. Will go on with meditation and not wasting my time with visualization

[Zephyr]

Creating another illusion doesn't hurt. You've been doing it your whole life. In fact that 'illusion' is great for fuel to take you in great heights.  

1 engulfs 2. 1 is feeling, 2 is doing. So they don't oppose each other, at least from my personal experience. 

Maybe you think that meditation and awareness is 'doing' cause I use to think that. 

 

[charlie2dogs]

On 6/26/2016 at 9:05 AM, Time Traveler said:

Hi everybody !

 

I was pondering upon two domains of  self actualization tools:

1) ones that tend to achieve clear vision of " what is"  ( meditation, raising awareness, mindfulness, unconditional love, etc ... )

2) ones that tend to create an illusion of what would be "nice to have" (affirmations, visualization, self hypnosis)

 

Do they contradict ? (E.g. there can be different approaches to deal with pain: immerse into it, detach from it)

Which one is "better" for self growth ?

Maybe they come in sequence, first second, then first ?

Which one gives faster results ?

Maybe these are two sides of one coin ?

 

What do you think ?

first i would like to hear what you think reality is, where it can be found and how you would obtain it, this is related to the topic subject you created for now.

[abrakamowse]

Illusion is a denial of Reality... IMO

[Time Traveler]

39 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

first i would like to hear what you think reality is, where it can be found and how you would obtain it, this is related to the topic subject you created for now.

I'm not talking here about some ultimate reality  or some exact definition. In ordinary everyday life for me "reality" = "what is" and that seems to be enough  for practical use.

Regarding to where it can be found I'd say every place where I am ready to search.

Example: Some time ago I was thinking that I'm rather good person. But I was disappointed with life, mostly with the other people who  seemed to do me wrong in every way. When I started to meditate I discovered that in "reality" I am full of shit. The more I delved into myself the more shit I discovered. I call it dissolving illusion and getting closer to reality.

[Leo Gura]

They can be used to aid one another. Use both!

You can use illusion as a tool to help you find the truth and embody the truth.

As long as you're alive, you're in the playground of illusion. So learn to play with it. But also seek the Truth.

[charlie2dogs]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They can be used to aid one another. Use both!

You can use illusion as a tool to help you find the truth and embody the truth.

As long as you're alive, you're in the playground of illusion. So learn to play with it. But also seek the Truth.

 

On 6/27/2016 at 8:42 AM, Time Traveler said:

@FindingPeace

Thanks man !

This is what I wanted to hear. Will go on with meditation and not wasting my time with visualization

use both, if you cant visualize yourself being what you want to become, you wont become, visualization is more important than meditation in some ways.  you wont go very far without it.

[Time Traveler]

Visualization is much more difficult for me. To meditate one really need one thing - persistence. In Vipassana retreat I felt changes in third day.

With visualization I haven't reached any success whatsoever. It is much harder to me. So I thought maybe I could do without it.

But if you are sure it can give results that can't be acquired otherwise I'll give it another try.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

I agree, use both!  As a visual thinker I do not take advantage of the power of visualization often enough in my own life, this was a good reminder.

@Time Traveler, I think for you, a vision board may be a good starting point to get your mind in that frame. So, you could make a collage of goals for example with images that you print out, then use that as a reference. I watched an awesome tedX a while back (sorry I can't remember the name) with a really powerful technique that I've tried and loved;

Take a huge piece of paper and divide it in half. On the left side draw your current cruddy or boring life (really emphasize what you don't like, can even be stick figures, in black and white). Then on the opposite, right hand side, draw what you want your life to be with all of the details, don't hold back and use all of the vivid colours you need. Have fun!

[Time Traveler]

@Epiphany_Inspired thank you ! I'll definitely try this !

Obviously there are more techniques of visualization than I realized and some of them are not o hard to do. 

Edited July 4, 2016 by Time Traveler

[charlie2dogs]

13 hours ago, Time Traveler said:

@Epiphany_Inspired thank you ! I'll definitely try this !

Obviously there are more techniques of visualization than I realized and some of them are not o hard to do. 

in visualization, you basically are creating a movie in your mind,  this movie involves you, except you are the director and actor, make it bigger than what you are actually seeking, make it colorful, make it intense as possible and create as much detail as you can, its sort of like daydreaming.  the two main things in visualization, the ability to see it clearly in your mind, with more and more detail, and desire behind it, those two things are a must.

[Time Traveler]

 

On 4.7.2016. at 1:12 AM, charlie2dogs said:

...  you are the director and actor ..

Funny thought just came to me. Real actors, especially those who play one role all the time, they should became their movie characters ?