Why does god allow determinism?

[Waken]

I haven't read much of this thread, but just wanted to share what I've read from some books, maybe it helps: The mind has no free will, but you do. and free will and predestination are actually the same thing.

[WHO IS]

Just now, Meta-Man said:

This is one infinity out of an infinite amount of infinities.

 

If God loves all of his creation, and all of the infinite ways of realities, then why do we have the reality of earth and humans existence exactly as we do right now?

What makes God imagine exactly this version of reality over the other versions, if there are infinite versions of how reality can be manifest. 

 

[AaronB]

This is my paraphrase and immediate response to the first question. 

Do you even realize that in everything you have ever done and every choice you have ever made you have been guided every step of the way? What if there is not a single choice you have ever made that was made alone?

I realize that the belief that I have done everything by myself may not be not true. In this case guilt would be irrational because it assumes I came up with who I am all by myself as if from scratch. The scratch I made myself up from seems to have gotten itself lost and confused. If who I really am isn't the random soup of qualities that I see, then who I really am must be what has been obscured by the random soup. And I've spent a lifetime trying to justify and defend and improve this random soup that isn't who I really am while believing I can never get it to be what I wish it was.

From my perspective this sounds like only good news.

[Victor Mgazi]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

That's fine. God can be infinetly loving as he is. 

This does not change the fact that he doesn't give everybody the free will to learn about god and love. Many people are close minded and suffer, because of life circumstances, (determinism), etc. And ultimately, because of god.

Actually, it changes everything, because that's just the point. If God's will is love then the only thing that exists is love. 

If there's anything else that you know to exist then that's imaginary. What you call "free will" is imaginary. Suffering, determinism, etc.. that's all imaginary. There's nothing here but love because that's God's will. Or does God have another will? God's will is love because that's who God is. It can't be any other way.

So if what you want to know is how God is love, then do as I've said and put in the work: question yourself just as much as you've questioned God. God is love, who are you? God is the truth, what are you? 

[arlin]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God's Love is a tricky business. It cannot be biased the way you want it to be. God must love viruses as much as it loves humans.

 

See, let's suppose i am somebody who lives a normal life, and i get hit my a random disease. Now, if i am aware of the whole thing of reallity, and god, i can recognize it. I can maybe accept my pain as part of god's love and the whole thing.

But if i don't know about those things, WHAT IS TRUE for me, is that life is shit! 

And since i don't have free will, i am destined by god to live that way.

So yea, for your perspective everything is fine etc. But for this guy here, he doesn't know about this stuff.

And since he does not know, he will never be aware of god's love. 

So this love that you talk about only exists for YOU.

If god's love isn't biased, everybody would have the same amount of opportunity to realize this!

Yet, although everyone is not immune to pain and suffering, there is still who lives life in ignorance and who knows about god.

 

[arlin]

2 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Nobody is forcing you to take yourself to be a limited and separate self. Yet you insist on it - That is you exercising your freedom (as God). You are free to be limited.

Wait wait wait wait.

Now you are confusing me. With this whole free will thing! 

Humans don't have free will, basically. right?

[WHO IS]

4 minutes ago, arlin said:

Wait wait wait wait.

Now you are confusing me. With this whole free will thing! 

Humans don't have free will, basically. right?

You know what interesting, people can go around thinking and speaking, but they are ignoring the fact that is right in front of their eyes and that is that they exist. It seems that people who cannot handle the reality of life and its pain, want to cope with trying to make themselves to believe that they themselves don't exist. They are relinquishing their own being, which is the biggest disfavor to themselves because their own Being is the most valuable thing.

If they didn't exist they wouldn't even be here to discuss these things, to begin with. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by WHO IS

[WHO IS]

1 minute ago, WHO IS said:

You know what interesting, people can go around thinking and speaking, but they are ignoring the fact that is right in front of their eyes and that is that they exist. It seems that people who cannot handle the reality of life and its pain, want to cope with trying to make themselves to believe that they themselves don't exist. They are relinquishing their own being, which is the biggest disfavor to themselves because their own Being is the most valuable thing.

If they didn't exist they wouldn't even be here to discuss these things, to begin with. 

That is why everybody is who is Being is precious and worth of Love. 

[arlin]

7 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

You know what interesting, people can go around thinking and speaking, but they are ignoring the fact that is right in front of their eyes and that is that they exist. It seems that people who cannot handle the reality of life and its pain, want to cope with trying to make themselves to believe that they themselves don't exist. They are relinquishing their own being, which is the biggest disfavor to themselves because their own Being is the most valuable thing.

I agree, although im open to the idea that there is more to life.

9 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Yup. But you’re not a human. You’re GOD!

I have a face, legs, arms... im human. 

But if you want to believe things and go in fantasy land it's ok.

[WHO IS]

Just now, Meta-Man said:

See I told you, you insist on being limited ??‍♂️

Friend, we can, of course, get to experience that we are God and believe to be so afterwards. But it still doesn't change that our consciousness resides and is attached to the homo-sapien bodies.  And it is these homo-sapien bodies through which we experience the world around.

[fridjonk]

@WHO IS You imagined there were homo-sapiens, when in actuality there never were such things. It is all a dream god imagined up. 

You've been sitting at the same place for eternity. 

Consciousness who becomes conscious of itself, realizes it is everything, so it is everywhere. It is all ONE.

[WHO IS]

1 minute ago, fridjonk said:

@WHO IS You imagined there were homo-sapiens, when in actuality there never were such things. It is all a dream god imagined up. 

You've been sitting at the same place for eternity. 

Consciousness who becomes conscious of itself, realizes it is everything, so it is everywhere. It is all ONE.

Yes, agree. However, if imagination is all there is and imagination IS reality, Then whatever is imagined is ver-very real, because there is no, not imagined things to begin with. 

If imagination=reality, then it is as real as it gets. 

[WHO IS]

3 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

That is an assumption you have yet to challenge for yourself. This is the number one materialist default position. That consciousness is body/brain dependent. 

What if it’s the other way around ?

I did not assume that consciousness is a product of the brain, how could it be when the brain is imagined by consciousness?

What I am staying is Consiousjessn imagines to be attached to the human body and thus limits itself to experiencing reality though the eyes/filters of a human. However, couldn't consciousness "imagine" to experience reality without being attached to a human?  

Better questions should be, can consiosunes anything? Then why cant we imagine to not being a human? 

[WHO IS]

3 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Real vs Unreal is a distinction you imagine. 

Yes at this point it is just imagery distinction. But, still we experiencing THIS reality right Now. 

You can't think/imagine away that you are experiencing reality though the body of a human for example and that you need to feed it and give water to it or otherwise it would malfunction. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by WHO IS

[fridjonk]

16 minutes ago, WHO IS said:

Yes, agree. However, if imagination is all there is and imagination IS reality, Then whatever is imagined is ver-very real, because there is no, not imagined things to begin with. 

If imagination=reality, then it is as real as it gets. 

Imagination according to the Cambridge dictionary -"Something that you think exists or is true, although in fact, it is not real or true:"

They are wrong about the true part tho, it is very TRUE, it's relative truth, not absolute truth. But it is not real from the source that imagined it up. 

You can not use the word imagination with your meaning attached to it. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by fridjonk

[arlin]

@Meta-Man If god has no choice but to be god where does the free will of god come into play?

[arlin]

4 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

Everything that’s happening is Gods will. That’s why the ‘spiritual path’ is all about aligning oneself to Gods will. So that your will and and Gods will will be ONE. For that to happen you have to give up yourself.

Yeah, that "giving up yourself" part maybe after 10 or 15 years. lol   

Haven't you said that god cannot be god? so he literally can't choose to be or not this reality, to be or not me, etc

[WHO IS]

4 minutes ago, arlin said:

Yeah, that "giving up yourself" part maybe after 10 or 15 years. lol   

Haven't you said that god cannot be god? so he literally can't choose to be or not this reality, to be or not me, etc

Though, because we are conscious Beings ourselves, we can have our own will. If ones every action is to reflect what God would want, then it means Youll giving up your own will. Which means you are relinquishing your own Being. 

What would God want to see, other who copy him all the time, or others who have their own independent will and being?

[arlin]

3 minutes ago, Meta-Man said:

God can imagine Herself to be limited. She is free to imprison Herself.

So, actually, this is for god an act of choice. yes?

Isn't he imprisoning himself just because he cannot not do it? Since god must be god and etc etc.

[WHO IS]

Just now, Meta-Man said:

Yes. You are God. You have chosen play hide and seek.

Chosen a play where God is suffering? Is God a masochist?