Arguing for your worldview

[Octafish]

Is activly trying to convince someone of your worldview through words a fruitless activity? Because I've been finding myself very disinterested in that lately.

Some years ago I had the tendency to always want to respond to things I did not agree with counter arguments, nowadays I rarely feel interested in that and rarely really want to go past more lighthearted conversations where we just listen to eachothers views rather than trying to convince. 

I guess that part of that comes from having gotten a much less socially acceptable worldview that I can't really base on anything besides "I consumed a lot of spiritual content and combined with meditation and everyday experiences I now trust my intuition more than anything else".

I guess for me in the end spirituality is more context than content and as a musician I'll be more drawn to making music that more abstractly expresses how I view the world while someone more scientifically/politically inclined might be more about finding the exact words and arguments.

What kind of experiences do you have with this?

[Osaid]

I guess it depends on the person. It might be useful teaching your significant other about spirituality. Or, if the person is open-minded enough, it might change their life and get them into spirituality.

But normally, I don't really go out of my way to promote my beliefs.

I might hint at it here and there if something related to it is mentioned, but people are usually to stubborn/low consciousness to actually consider your point of view, so I know any conversation I try to make will probably be in vain.

[Hello from Russia]

Most people are unconscious idiots. It's usually a huge waste of time to try to convince them in something. They will nearly always choose their dogma and shitty beliefs and won't ever dare to question it because they are sheep.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Hello from Russia

[gswva]

I don't think we should purposely ignore people who lack knowledge or seem to be void of intellectual potential. We don't know what path or hardship they went through to achieve what you assume as a starting point. Intelligence is exponential and multifaceted which is really hard for our brain to evaluate. Obviously it depends on what is your goal in life, not everyone has to be a teacher.

Personally, I try to not bother people with metaphysics if they aren't interested into discussing it, but I think we should listen to everyone and everything as if it were god talking to us. Consciousness puts effort into every little thing that is happening everywhere.

[IJB063]

@Octafish Read this article - its interesting and is related to your topic

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

I generally think arguing with people is pointless

You should win via your actions and not through your words

Do what ever you need to do to get what you want

[Pramit]

where is your mind in all this? 

21 hours ago, Octafish said:

What kind of experiences do you have with this?

If you say "I am cold", will you feel cold? 

[gswva]

@Pramit The quote sounds exactly like what god would say to protect our ego. Can we really believe anything?

[Leo Gura]

Truth cannot be argued or argued with.

The more one argues, the less truth one understands.

Have you noticed that the most argumentative people are the most false?

And the most truthful people are the least argumentative?

Why is that? How do you explain that?

[Derek White]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And the most truthful people are the least argumentative?

Wouldn’t you stop someone from committing a crime or a harmful act by arguing with them?

Wouldn’t you argue with someone who’s suicidal or say misguided on politics?

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Derek White said:

Wouldn’t you stop someone from committing a crime or a harmful act by arguing with them?

Wouldn’t you argue with someone who’s suicidal or say misguided on politics?

No, you can't stop those things through argument. In fact, if you argue about that, you'll likely spur it on.

Try to distinguish between discussion/advice/logic vs argumentation.

Logically explaining the consequences of someone's action to them CAN help them to rethink their behaviors. But not argumentation.

[Derek White]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, you can't stop those things through argument. In fact, if you argue about that, you'll likely spur it on.

Try to distinguish between discussion/advice/logic vs argumentation.

Logically explaining the consequences of someone's action to them CAN help them to rethink their behaviors. But not argumentation.

Good point. 

[gswva]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Have you noticed that the most argumentative people are the most false?

And the most truthful people are the least argumentative?

Why is that? How do you explain that?

People might find themselves in some sort of "ego deadlock" where the more pain originates from their false belief, the deeper the idea becomes knotted into their mind. Defending their worldview becomes a matter of survival while they lose interest in seeking truth. It is more profitable for them to attack others than trying to explain themselves. 

Then it also works with joy instead of pain and the root grows even larger.

Edited April 3, 2020 by gswva

[Roy]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:51 AM, Octafish said:

Some years ago I had the tendency to always want to respond to things I did not agree with counter arguments, nowadays I rarely feel interested in that and rarely really want to go past more lighthearted conversations where we just listen to eachothers views rather than trying to convince. 

Congratulations. You've graduated from Stage Green to Stage Yellow thinking.

[Thewritersunion]

@Octafish

here ya go