Sharing my path: RASA, Depression, Psychedelics, Ashram, Romantic Love

[Visionary]

When psychedelics are used to escape ordinary reality, that's when you're on the wrong path. 

And also what @pluto said, there is this distinction between synthetic and natural psychedelics. 

Full heartedly agree with @LfcCharlie4 .

 

[Nexeternity]

@Haumea2018  Your tone is harsh and accusatory.   The anti-psychedelic rhetoric really hurts the community, we support responsible use of them as medicines.  If it's not your path that's fine but don't criticize the path harshly on here

@LfcCharlie4  Leo rated his Loc Lower than what ramaji gave him, not higher.  We don't tell kids to do psyches, we say somewhere in the mid 20s depending on maturity.  A lot of people talk badly about psychedelics without ever trying them which is a shame.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nexeternity So Leo is still seeking then?  Ramaji mentioned it recently actually that Leo isn’t in Non-Duality, therefore, isn’t awakened, can’t have it both ways. 
 

And, yes, very rarely are people asked their age when psyches are recommended, they just are recommended, I have no problem with psyches, my issue is with reckless recommendations to people too young for them. 
 

As I clearly stated I am not talking badly of psyches, they are great medicines for the right people, at the right time and when used responsibly of course. Never once did I dispute that. 
 

Of course “responsible use” is quite a blanket term, to me using a synthetic chemical weekly in quite high doses isn’t responsible, to others it may be. 
 

Maybe a safety post should be made on Psyches regarding the points you made, as I do see them recommended without any age questions.

Ive even seen them recommended after by someone after they said they almost committed Suicide during a trip on here.

My main point, is that I’m yet to see any awakened beings who are proponents of this 5MEO path, that’s all. Who knows, in a decade there could be 1000s. 

[Matteo]

40 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

My main point, is that I’m yet to see any awakened beings who are proponents of this 5MEO path, that’s all. Who knows, in a decade there could be 1000s.

I have the impression that most teachers don't even know what 5-Meo-DMT is and what it does. It's not well known yet, altough it's increasing in popularity. As mankind advances, new paths are created and tested, this happens all the time. Leo is doing his own experiments on himself and seems very happy with his findings, let's see where this leads him. He might make mistakes and adjust along the way, if still possible. He might as well have discovered something important and valid, and it could be a great contribution to modern spirituality.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Matteo  Of course, and that is why I said who knows in a decade we could see hundreds of 5MEO awakened beings, just so far we haven't at all. So far it seems it creates a sense of delusion, narcissism and Inflation (did anyone read the articles linked?) 

That being said, I am of course opening to this changing and am not tied to one path, if the psychedelic path proves to be more effective in helping raise people's consciousness and awaken them, I'm all for it. 

Like I already said, Psychedelics can give people incredible insights, experiences and even healing modalities, I'm just not convinced on Leo's whole more awakened than the Buddha based on how he acts on here, what he says and his videos that's all. At this point I would not class him as awake at all in fact, this doesn't mean I'm dismissing his Experiences or Insights at all btw, I'm talking about Self-Realisation, not just insights and experiences, while great, no experience lasts forever, no matter how high you go always end back here, with THIS. 

 

[fridjonk]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

At this point I would not class him as awake at all in fact, this doesn't mean I'm dismissing his Experiences or Insights at all btw, I'm talking about Self-Realisation, not just insights and experiences, while great, no experience lasts forever, no matter how high you go always end back here, with THIS. 

What's the difference tho? It doesn't matter to you if another is awake every second of their life or not, but deep insights that cannot be had within a human body certainly are more interesting than yet another "normal" awakened being; there are tens of thousands of those already. There are not thousands that are going to these psychedelic breakthrough depths with serious enlightenment work. 

Once your brain is lubed up from meditation and contemplation, and you pop a psychedelic, you best believe you're going to face God with full intensity! 

Not trying to start another debate btw, just interested in your thoughts on this. 

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Matteo  Of course, and that is why I said who knows in a decade we could see hundreds of 5MEO awakened beings, just so far we haven't at all. So far it seems it creates a sense of delusion, narcissism and Inflation (did anyone read the articles linked?) 

That being said, I am of course opening to this changing and am not tied to one path, if the psychedelic path proves to be more effective in helping raise people's consciousness and awaken them, I'm all for it. 

Like I already said, Psychedelics can give people incredible insights, experiences and even healing modalities, I'm just not convinced on Leo's whole more awakened than the Buddha based on how he acts on here, what he says and his videos that's all. At this point I would not class him as awake at all in fact, this doesn't mean I'm dismissing his Experiences or Insights at all btw, I'm talking about Self-Realisation, not just insights and experiences, while great, no experience lasts forever, no matter how high you go always end back here, with THIS. 

 

Just started reading this thread and thought I would chime in.  As you know my awakenings were not using psychedelics.   When i stumbled onto spirituality and began meditating it was Leo's enlightenment videos and epistemological and metaphysical videos that i listened to prior and sometimes during meditation - when it happened.

By it i mean mysticism and the realizations that come with non-dual states of consciousness and complete ego death and the collapse of the self / other duality and all dualities.

This is something actual - pure actuality or Truth as Being Truth.

So what makes you think that psychedelics cannot also induce a mystical non-dual state and a God state just the same as meditation? 

Once the state is there then how it got there is irrelevant.   I just don't think the teachings Leo has laid out for us would be so deep and so accurate that it helped me to Self realize and awaken if he weren't enlightened as fuck himself.  I just don't think it would have happened.

So i think its best to stay open minded on psychedelics.  That's why i support the path fully.   You are of course entitled to your opinions and we welcome diversity here but i am just laying out mine.

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk My main point is that I’m not denying Psyches give amazing insights and experiences, never once have I denied Leo’s awakenings. However, true awakening is beyond states and experiences. 
 

Again, I am not saying Psyches can’t help with this, they help on many people’s journey, however, we always end up back here with This, so yes, use them to help, but when are you going to face reality as it is, now? 
 

and, to me, in Leo’s case he doesn’t seem Awake, he seems he’s had very deep awakenings and insights but doesn’t abide there on a day to day basis, could be wrong, but that’s how his messages are coming across. Again, I think Psyches are a great tool for insights and experiences, the real work to me is then embodying and integrating each trip, which probably would take more than 1 week no? 
 

@Inliytened1 I am open minded, I said I’m open to the fact they are clearly incredibly helpful and powerful as I have said. And, of course they induce mystical states and experiences, I’ve never doubted that.

But, awakening isn’t about experiences, I am not denying Leo has had incredibly deep experiences and insights.

My doubts are his abidance and day to day being when sober. And, in regards to the teachings, of course many of his are incredibly helpful, and I’m happy they helped you, that’s why I’m saying it’s clear these insights and teachings have come from his direct experience, in just not sold on the whole more awake than anyone else bonanza, and that he’s actually awake full stop, that’s all. 
 

I have conversed with many on and outside this forum regarding this and many share similar concerns. Not that it really matters, you’re entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.

I certainly support Psyches being used on ones path, but I feel there’s a difference between use and abuse of anything in life, and as I mentioned in the end This is it, here, now. 
 

And Leo won’t give a fuck what I think, why would he, it’s his life and his will to do whatever the fuck he wants. 
 

All I ask for is maybe a bit more precaution when recommending to young people, these are very powerful substances. 

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@fridjonk My main point is that I’m not denying Psyches give amazing insights and experiences, never once have I denied Leo’s awakenings. However, true awakening is beyond states and experiences. 
 

Again, I am not saying Psyches can’t help with this, they help on many people’s journey, however, we always end up back here with This, so yes, use them to help, but when are you going to face reality as it is, now? 
 

and, to me, in Leo’s case he doesn’t seem Awake, he seems he’s had very deep awakenings and insights but doesn’t abide there on a day to day basis, could be wrong, but that’s how his messages are coming across. Again, I think Psyches are a great tool for insights and experiences, the real work to me is then embodying and integrating each trip, which probably would take more than 1 week no? 
 

@Inliytened1 I am open minded, I said I’m open to the fact they are clearly incredibly helpful and powerful as I have said. And, of course they induce mystical states and experiences, I’ve never doubted that.

But, awakening isn’t about experiences, I am not denying Leo has had incredibly deep experiences and insights.

My doubts are his abidance and day to day being when sober. And, in regards to the teachings, of course many of his are incredibly helpful, and I’m happy they helped you, that’s why I’m saying it’s clear these insights and teachings have come from his direct experience, in just not sold on the whole more awake than anyone else bonanza, and that he’s actually awake full stop, that’s all. 
 

I have conversed with many on and outside this forum regarding this and many share similar concerns. Not that it really matters, you’re entitled to your opinion, as I am mine.

I certainly support Psyches being used on ones path, but I feel there’s a difference between use and abuse of anything in life, and as I mentioned in the end This is it, here, now. 
 

And Leo won’t give a fuck what I think, why would he, it’s his life and his will to do whatever the fuck he wants. 
 

All I ask for is maybe a bit more precaution when recommending to young people, these are very powerful substances. 

Yeah i hear ya.  Well i think what you are speaking of is more about embodying awakening or enlightenment and aligning with such levels of consciousness.  Because God levels of consciousness are not sustained and you eventually come back to a human level of consciousness and then can work towards embodying that level and aligning with it.   What you call experiences i call states of Consciousness thousands of times higher than human levels.

Someone can be enlightened as fuck and then decide to say fuck it all and become a zen devil.  That would be there choice or course - however this doesn't negate that they became directly conscious of Truth - what they do with it at the human level is up to them.  

Embodiment at the human level is relative as all form is relative.  One will generally be more conscious though and then will naturally be inclined to purify oneself of addictions and things like that and generally not need external things for Happiness because they have it in Being.  But if they decide not to i don't think it means they are any less enlightened as God.

[Nahm]

Psyche: “make visible, real”

Delic: (root; dyeu) “to shine; as in sky, heaven, God”

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, Gnosis said:

Perfect clarity. "Losing"; "dropping away", becomes a Blissful experience.

Continues until there's Nothing left to drop away.

Bliss without knowing Non-Bliss.

At each turn of the journey, it becomes more "Real".

Profoundly True. ♥️

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 Seems to me like we've got nothing to argue about mate. 

[Raptorsin7]

@LfcCharlie4 Its all about integration and embodiment.

The experiences mean nothing if they aren't translated to your everyday sober life.

[fridjonk]

1 minute ago, Raptorsin7 said:

The experiences mean nothing if they aren't translated to your everyday sober life.

For some, it's just about understanding reality and that's good enough. 

It just depends on what you want. 

[Display_Name]

@LfcCharlie4 It would be cool and extremely insightful if you could take 5-MeO and compare it to LOC 1000.

[fridjonk]

@Display_Name 5-MeO is LOC 5000. It only takes me 200ug of LSD to get to LOC 1000.

But it doesn't last long afterwards. 

But it chips the ego away slowly.  

Edited April 1, 2020 by fridjonk

[LfcCharlie4]

@Inliytened1 Yes, certainly someone can be awakened as fuck and then act like a complete twat and cheat in his wife, abuse his students and abuse his power. However, to be that is a sign of an 'incomplete' awakening, as after awakening to love and embodying it I feel the capacity to do such things reduces massively. 

I know many here don't like the LOC scale, but I'll bring it in as it applies well here for this scenario. 

What you're basically describing is the LOC 700s, where the 'I am the Universe/ God/ Everything' rhetoric comes in. Don't get me wrong it's an AMAZING awakening and puts an end to the whole No-Self jargon which I think we both have had enough of on here  

However, this awakening can occasionally be used to say 'I'm enlightened, I'm the whole universe and I'm superior to you, so I can treat you how I want!' 

This happened in cases such as Bentino Massano, Mooji, and Ramaji had Osho in the 700s also. But, it is clear these people are awakened isn't it, however, their behavior didn't align at all, which is both an embodiment and the fact the true opening to infinite love and The Self/ God as being IT hasn't been recognized. Any sort of superiority is dropped with true Self-Realisation, that's kind of my other issue here with Psyches, if they make people think they're superior, then they aren't a true awakening, which is the most humbling thing possible when you literally realize you are the SAME as everyone else, and there simply isn't a hierarchy. There is just beings who have recognized the nature of their own being, and those who haven't, either way, EVERYONE is The Self/ God and everyone is you. Any notions of superiority and being better is instantly wiped away. 

So I don't think embodiment is something to take lightly, if we look at beings such as Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Adya, Ramana Maharshi and Nisgardatta (All at 'LOC 1000') they are exact examples of what I mean, they have aligned their lives with truth, happiness and peace. 

And, this doesn't mean you have to become a teacher or anything, just simply your life becomes an expression of peace, love and happiness in all areas such as Work, Relationships, Activities, Actions, Thoughts, and Feelings. 

So, to me becoming a Zen Devil would quite frankly be the sign there is further to go either in awakening sense or embodiment sense.

And, just to be clear here, I am far from perfect in this area, as I am still very much integrating as most of us here are (for example in Zen they say it can take up to 7 years to truly integrate, @Haumea2018 has been at '1000' for 2 years, and said it involves a LOT of shadow work and purification) 

The thing is people will then think oh if you're still doing work how can you be awake?!?!?!?!? 

That's also my gripe with the No-Self clan, it seems as much as 'there's nothing to do and nobody here' they don't want to face the shadow and dark side within, because it really isn't fun at times I can tell you that!

But, you could easily do Shadow work and purification pre-awakening, it just becomes a LOT easier when the I-thought is no longer in the way sabotaging you. 

And lastly, to me understanding The Self/ The Absolute, and not living like it is simply not understanding the teaching fully, embodiment can bring even deeper levels of harmony and being in my experience as you aren't living 'against' the Truth. For example, I would imagine an awakened being would find it hard to then go and be a marketer for McDonald's and continue poisoning kids, I feel they'd be called to move to a company doing the opposite if you get me. 

I rambled on a bit there but in one sentence- I don't see Zen Devils as fully awake, to me integration and embodiment is so so important, and Realisation and Insights are like Chapter 1-2 in the book! I think Rupert talks about this somewhere, I'll try and find it  

@Display_Name Not until I'm 25  Also, I'm currently still working on embodiment and integration and the 'clearing' stage of this work, so right now it wouldn't be right for me, maybe in several years as a test it could be fun 

@fridjonk Wrong! 5MEO takes you to LOC99999999999!

 

[Waken]

@LfcCharlie4 just in addition to something you discussed with others. To me it seems most people only base enlightenment on being awake through the crown chakra. Then @Leo Gura talks about awakening to Love lately too, okay, isn't that just also including the heart chakra? There are many chakras in the body, so one can become awake to many aspects. Perhaps with 5 meo you can only effectively open the crown, but maybe it's useless for opening the many other chakras, maybe this is the imbalance that people see in Leo.

[Raptorsin7]

@Waken Agreed. The idea that psychedelics are doing something special that cant be achieved sober is a joke.

[fridjonk]

@Waken Interesting, but love isn't located in some chakra necessarily, love is everything and everywhere, in every chakra. The heart chakra starts at stage blue/orange/green according to integral theory. I don't necessarily agree with that tho. 

The crown chakra is the stage where you transcend your human vessel and become absolute,  that is the highest form of love, not the heart chakra. You also cant awaken to your crown chakra without transcending the heart chakra. 

In short, the heart chakra can be seen as relative community love. 

The crown is absolute unconditional love. 

Edited April 3, 2020 by fridjonk