Enlightenment Q&A pt.2

[FoxFoxFox]

Hey guys, Fox here. We previously did an enlightenment Q&A on this forum as way of me giving back to this great community. I'm ready for round 2. Ask your questions in this thread and i'll answer in a couple hours. Same rules as last time.

Part 1:

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by FoxFoxFox

[Raptorsin7]

@FoxFoxFox  I had an enlightenment experience on LSD, where everything in my life made sense. It all clicked me for me.

I saw everything I had done in my life had led me to the experience, and it felt like I was getting downloads from a higher being. I felt bliss flowing through me, and it was the greatest moment of my life.

But that was a few months ago, and even though I've done a few trips since then I have yet to reach back to that state. My typical practices of meditation are okay at relaxing me, but nothing sober gets me even close to that experience.

Thoughts?

[FoxFoxFox]

@Raptorsin7  In general i don't recommend using psychedelics for purposes of enlightenment. Not saying it can't be done, but the pitfalls are too numerous and too great. The experience of enlighenment is not like an LSD trip. Just because you thought things make sense while you were tripping, doesn't mean they actually did. The issue is that having that psychedelic state, you now expect to be able to achieve it through meditation. Well achieving any sort of state is not the goal here.

[Raptorsin7]

@FoxFoxFox@FoxFoxFox  What is the goal of enlightenment?

[electroBeam]

@FoxFoxFox

What is the distinction between surrender, and I AM. is I AM a state of surrender? Is God's will a state of surrender? What is surrender?

Great advice btw on the psychedelic response. +1

Edited March 29, 2020 by electroBeam

[FoxFoxFox]

15 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@FoxFoxFox@FoxFoxFox  What is the goal of enlightenment?

Enlightenmenti is the goal itself but I think the question you are really asking is what is the purpose of any meditative practices aimed at enlightenment. You said you are unhappy about your meditation, but considering that meditation does manage to relax you, the practice is probably working as intended, since normal meditation doesn't really do more than that. So the dissatisfaction you feel about meditation is really a matter of expectations not living up to reality. The purpose of any enlightenment practices is to clear away doubt and ilusion (including expectations), and to unify you with your immediate expereince with as little filtering as possible. It's to achieve pure subjectivity without bondage.

12 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@FoxFoxFox

What is the distinction between surrender, and I AM. is I AM a state of surrender? Is God's will a state of surrender?

Great advice btw on the psychedelic response. +1

I am is another name for the Self. It's a statement of realization of one's own being. When that realization gets distorted it devolves into impure states such as "I am this" or "I am that".

Surrender is being "I am", that is to say unifying with your immediate experience in an unbreakable fashion. Surrender is when all separations within consiousness fall away and reality is experienced as a whole rather than tried to be made sense of in bits and pieces via language and logic.

 

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

In general i don't recommend using psychedelics for purposes of enlightenment.

I agree. They aren't needed if you're ready.

[electroBeam]

11 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

I am is another name for the Self. It's a statement of realization of one's own being. When that realization gets distorted it devolves into impure states such as "I am this" or "I am that".

Surrender is being "I am", that is to say unifying with your immediate experience in an unbreakable fashion. Surrender is when all separations within consiousness fall away and reality is experienced as a whole rather than tried to be made sense of in bits and pieces via language and logic.

 

Thanks 

What's a good trick to know whether the ego is using surrender as an excuse to resist (surrender to do something urgently needed to be done around the house), and vice versa when the ego tricks you into thinking you're not surrendering, when you actually are (for example meditating and surrendering to the discomfort might make the ego think you are not surrendering to the desire to move to change the discomfort). 

Edited March 29, 2020 by electroBeam

[FoxFoxFox]

12 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Thanks 

What's a good trick to know whether the ego is using surrender as an excuse to resist (surrender to do something urgently needed to be done around the house), and vice versa when the ego tricks you into thinking you're not surrendering, when you actually are (for example meditating and surrendering to the discomfort might make the ego think you are not surrendering to the desire to move to change the discomfort). 

I would appraoch it from a different angle. No reason to antagonize the ego or to single it out as an enemy that one needs to be vigillant about. Instead whenever you feel anxious about this stuff, take a deep breath and let the anxiety leave your body. You don't have to find an actual solution to these problems. Just acknowledgin them and letting them run their course is enough.

Most of the problems we think the ego causes with regards to enlightenment are really misrepresentations of one's emotions and feeligns not being in sync.

Edited March 29, 2020 by FoxFoxFox

[Raptorsin7]

@FoxFoxFox  So how would I go about embodying the peak experience I had on LSD? 

Have you done psyhcs?

[electroBeam]

21 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

I would appraoch it from a different angle. No reason to antagonize the ego or to single it out as an enemy that one needs to be vigillant about. Instead whenever you feel anxious about this stuff, take a deep breath and let the anxiety leave your body. You don't have to find an actual solution to these problems. Just acknowledgin them and letting them run their course is enough.

Most of the problems we think the ego causes with regards to enlightenment are really misrepresentations of one's emotions and feeligns not being in sync.

Thankyou, really appreciate the response! 

[FoxFoxFox]

6 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@FoxFoxFox  So how would I go about embodying the peak experience I had on LSD? 

Have you done psyhcs?

Like i said, the "peak experience" is not enlightenment. It's just a state. Really you have two ways to go depending on what you want to achieve:

1. If you want to achieve some sort of psychedelic state then the drugs are the easiest approach. Why do extremely difficult meditative practices to get there when you can just pop a tab? I do not recommend this btw.

2. If you want enlightenment, then you need to first undertand what it's about, and then get rid of all the doubt that don't let you realize your Self.

I have done psychedelics. A few different types. I do not believe they contributed much to my understanding beyond getting me interested in consciousness work and perhaps showing me that the paradigm I believed in previously was not as concrete as i thought.

2 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Thankyou, really appreciate the response! 

Edited March 29, 2020 by FoxFoxFox

[Consilience]

Do you view enlightenment as a sudden or gradual thing? For example, the more that I do this work, the more I feel that enlightenment is not an end. It’s impossible to become fully awake and enlightened. From what I observe, truth is simply embodied at deeper and deeper levels in lived experience. Ive had moments where Im hyper conscious of existential truth, and moments where I slip back into ignorance so to speak... yet the truth is always present. The degree consciousness is aware is not, however. People might refer to this as a state, but I dont see how it is any other way. Consciousness can either be conscious , or ignorant to varying degrees, seemingly infinite in both directions. Ive seen an underlying truth to consciousness, Ive felt its infinite nature but this awareness isn't enduring. 

What are your thoughts on this matter? 

[FoxFoxFox]

15 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Do you view enlightenment as a sudden or gradual thing? For example, the more that I do this work, the more I feel that enlightenment is not an end. It’s impossible to become fully awake and enlightened. From what I observe, truth is simply embodied at deeper and deeper levels in lived experience. Ive had moments where Im hyper conscious of existential truth, and moments where I slip back into ignorance so to speak... yet the truth is always present. The degree consciousness is aware is not, however. People might refer to this as a state, but I dont see how it is any other way. Consciousness can either be conscious , or ignorant to varying degrees, seemingly infinite in both directions. Ive seen an underlying truth to consciousness, Ive felt its infinite nature but this awareness isn't enduring. 

What are your thoughts on this matter? 

Realization certainly comes in a flash. In an instant. Blink of an eye etc. That is the real deal and it does not get deeper or change much once it happens. It also does not go away again, so it's not possible for someone to relapse back into the way things were for them before. So in that sense, enlightenment is an 'end'. It certainly is possible to become fully awake and "enlightened" from that perspective. This paradigm shift is a union with direct experience and what is been labeled as enlightenment. People sometimes get glimpses of it in meditation, but it's only called enlightenment when the change is permenant.

What does get "deeper" however is perception of direct experience, and that is a function of heightened senses being able to percieve reality at subtler and subtler levels as time goes on. However, the important thing is realization itself. The content of experience is not of much significance in absense of realization. They only become important once union with them has been achieved. In that case one literally percieveis reality as one's own Self, and things like "I am that I am" and "The universe is within me" etc. starts to make sense and gain significance.

If you objectify consciousness - something that is completely illogical and understandable in that fashion btw - then yes, things like degrees of awareness and realization vs. absence of realization make some sense, but really there is a reason why so many gurus are adamant that one cannot be ignorant to begin with. It's because they do not operate from that logical assumption that there is an objective, separate thing know as consiousness that can have objective qualities. Consiousness literally is direct experience, no matter what that experience is. Even when you are in dreamless sleep, that is consiousness directly manifesting pure void.

Edited March 29, 2020 by FoxFoxFox

[Raptorsin7]

@FoxFoxFox

1 hour ago, FoxFoxFox said:

If you want enlightenment, then you need to first undertand what it's about, and then get rid of all the doubt that don't let you realize your Self.

What is it about in your view? Or where can I learn more about it?

Also do you have any specific practice recommendations?

I do between 30-60 mins of mindfulness meditation per day, but I find I get bored a lot and i'm hoping for a practice that brings something more than just mild relxation.

I want vitality, energy, bliss etc. I want to be the best me I can be, and that comes with feeling as good as possible.

[FoxFoxFox]

12 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@FoxFoxFox

What is it about in your view? Or where can I learn more about it?

Read some of the comments above yours. I gave a few demonstrations. A good abstraction is "union with direct experience aka the self". You can hear about enlightenment in books, talks, gurus etc. but learning what it actually is equates to attempting to being who you already are. Some gurus call this "being in the now", and while that term is very wuwu and has lost its meaning since its inception, that basically what boils down to. Only the trick is you cannot be in the now through effort. The effort ironically gets in the way. You have surrender.

19 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Also do you have any specific practice recommendations?

I don't have a general recommendation. It would depend on the state and level of the seeker. There is no catch all method that works for everybody. Reflect on yourself and identify your shortcomings and try to address those.

Quote

I do between 30-60 mins of mindfulness meditation per day, but I find I get bored a lot and i'm hoping for a practice that brings something more than just mild relxation. I want vitality, energy, bliss etc. I want to be the best me I can be, and that comes with feeling as good as possible.

I honestly believe things like sports, working out, or even medication are quicker routes to feeling good than enlightenment. So is healthy interpersonal relationships, good sex etc.

Permenant bliss is an exclusive feature of realization, but approaching enlightenment work with the aim of achieving that is ironically not the correct method.

For the most part I advise taking care of the life problems first before pursuing enlightenment. For most people that seems to work out best.

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Yes permanent bliss is feature of realization good luck having thermo nuclear reactor inside and feeling God for most of the day. 

Lab rat hooked on constant dose of heroin can't compare. 

What was I thinking with this. ?

I can't be God you know I am just ordinary billionaire who likes driving his Lambo. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[FoxFoxFox]

1 hour ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Yes permanent bliss is feature of realization good luck having thermo nuclear reactor inside and feeling God for most of the day.

The bliss changes quality. In the beginning it is extremely intense and can legitimately incapacitate you. As time goes on it reduces in intensity and becomes a constant, vibrant buzz. You go around most of your day with a pink, flushed face

[fi1ghtclub]

How has your life changed after your first experience to this?

Has there been an increase in the baseline level of your awareness like what a microdose does?

Has your perception got more finer and subtle?

Have you had any Kundalini experience and how does it factor in with respect to enlightenment?

How do you lead your daily life now?

Is the bliss extremely constant and settled now?

And are you now at Turiya - the fourth which is beyond the waking, dreaming and sleeping?

[FoxFoxFox]

1 hour ago, fi1ghtclub said:

How has your life changed after your first experience to this?

How do you lead your daily life now?

Haha a bit of a broad question no?

Quote

Has there been an increase in the baseline level of your awareness like what a microdose does?

Has your perception got more finer and subtle?

Yes defintely.

Quote

Have you had any Kundalini experience and how does it factor in with respect to enlightenment?

Yes I have a very active Kundalini in the process of merging with the Sahasrar. Kundalini by itself can grant self-realization. In my case i got realized before complete dissolution of Kundalini. It's doing its work.

Quote

Is the bliss extremely constant and settled now?

Yes. Bliss is constant and unbroken. It is also stable and not sposmadic and crippling like how it was initially.

Quote

And are you now at Turiya - the fourth which is beyond the waking, dreaming and sleeping?

There really is no such thing as turyia. Ramana used it as substitute for the enlightened state as opposed to awake, dreaming and sleeping states. The distinctions are all arbitrary. Consioussness is unbroken no matter the mind's state.