psychotherapist/ psychedelics/ spiritual ego

[Patrick Lynam]

What I don't understand is why so many life coaches/ therapists say that you shouldn't do them. If they're scared to take psychedelics themselves why cant they just admit that?

They seem very certain that they are right and that you should not believe people who say that you should take them. Its very confusing I must say. 

I feel like if I was to take a psychedelic and contemplate this i could find an answer but I seem to have a belief that people who take psychedelics are deluding themselves and will inevitably develop a spiritual ego. This thing of spiritual ego is more terrifying to me than any bad trip Iv'e had. 

[Chintan desai]

@Patrick Lynam just watch leo's videos of "how to use psychedelics for personal development", and people who are scared to use psychedelics of course they wont admit that "ego sees everything but itself"  man you need to learn a lot from leo's teachings i assume you haven't much seen his vids

[Patrick Lynam]

@Chintan desai  I say this not because I'm certain that they are afraid of them but because Leo said people who are against them are really just afraid. To me it seems that if it were really as simple as just take loads of psychedelics these people would be the first to admit it.

Perhaps Im just not conscious enough to see that they're really just afraid and are deluding themselves into thinking you shouldn't do allot of psychedelics.

[Crystalous]

3 hours ago, Patrick Lynam said:

What I don't understand is why so many life coaches/ therapists say that you shouldn't do them. If they're scared to take psychedelics themselves why cant they just admit that?

They seem very certain that they are right and that you should not believe people who say that you should take them. Its very confusing I must say. 

I feel like if I was to take a psychedelic and contemplate this i could find an answer but I seem to have a belief that people who take psychedelics are deluding themselves and will inevitably develop a spiritual ego. This thing of spiritual ego is more terrifying to me than any bad trip Iv'e had. 

Look...before my first experience i was thinking the same thing.There were controversial theories and opinions.But i had a master which i knew he knew.He was Osho.He had told that it is okay to have a psychedelic experience because it is a beautiful experience though he didn't allow his students to take them.So i told myself that i will be the one that is going to create his own opinion and i took the risk.You should remember that every opinion has a truth in it and it may be like this for some.If you want to try go and try but carefully and respectfully.A lot of coaches and healers are shit and have no clue

[Arzack]

There is even people actually believing that the Earth is flat. That's an extreme example, but you can't judge a book by its cover, the fact someone is a psychotherapist isn't a guarantee that they are smart. 

And even enlightened people aren't know-it-all Gods, awakening doesn't make you knowledgeable, for example Gurdjieff didn't believe in Darwinism, he thought that dogs mated with humans and gave birth to monkeys (lol).

In fact I asked Jan Esmann, who is obviously awakened imo, and he told me 'don't do LSD, it fucks you up'.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Arzack

[StripedGiraffe]

The people that say believe that nobody should be using psychedelics hold this belief dogmatically. Even within the scientific paradigm, it's obvious that psychedelics can be valuable tools for personal development and pivotal for treating conditions like depression, anxiety disorder, and PTSD. If you're confused, just take a look at some studies. There are plenty. Nevertheless, people cling to their beliefs, ultimately to preserve their ego. The force behind this self-preservation is ultimately fear. Now, this doesn't mean that psychedelics will definitely help you, but theorizing and taking further advice on the issue won't help you figure that out. The only way is to try and to do so responsibly and with an open mind. By the way, what's so terrifying to you about the possibility of developing a spiritual ego?

[Patrick Lynam]

@StripedGiraffe  Having a spiritual ego and not knowing that i do. I dont want to have a spiritual ego because something about the new age culture just really is not appealing to me.

[Patrick Lynam]

@StripedGiraffe  I also feel that allot of people in the spiritual community hate people with spiritual egos hahaha

[electroBeam]

@Patrick Lynam You need to be careful to not miss the point when taking psychedelics. Sure you can have radically deep mystical experiences, but if its 'you' having them, then the point has been missed. This is what legit teachers are concerned about with psychedelics.

This point is valid not just for psychedelics, but also meditation techniques, yogic techniques, and other spiritual techniques. Especially in the kriya space, people can get very attached to the techniques they use, and the highs from the techniques. But the magic, and growth, is not in the technique or the state you get from the technique, its in the acceptance, surrender and ultimately embodiment of what the technique opens up for you. And that usually means, dissolving the 'you' so that its false to say you are experiencing a meditative state, but rather, you are the meditative state itself.

By seeing the psychedelic, and mystical state, itself as the treasure chest, rather than just the doorway to the treasure chest, you block yourself from really reaching self realisation. The magic isn't taking psychedelics, and its not the highs from the psychedelics, its in the embodiment and acceptance, gratitude and surrender of the experience.

This is something which is quite tricky, because the ego really latches onto mystical experiences. Because its the ego's last chance at persisting. If it can latch onto and trick you into thinking you're experiencing a mystical state, as if its somehow separate to your ordinary state of consciousness, it will have a really good chance of keeping you stuck chasing states, because to drop a powerful mystical experience is harder than dropping fame and fortune. 

Plenty of teachers talk about the dangers of 'chasing' states of consciousness. Psychedelics are different in that they are ridiculously powerful compared to meditative techniques, meaning the risk of chasing states of consciousness is dangerously high. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by electroBeam

[StripedGiraffe]

16 hours ago, Patrick Lynam said:

@StripedGiraffe  Having a spiritual ego and not knowing that i do. I dont want to have a spiritual ego because something about the new age culture just really is not appealing to me.

Honestly, ego develops around anything you do. Notice that right now, you have an "anti-new age" ego. All spiritual ego really means is that you identify as someone spiritual. Certainly, some people develop excessively spiritual egos and turn into a self-righteous douchebag with a superiority complex, but mostly, that happens as a result of people doing fake spirituality (according to my intuitions lol). This means people are taking on spiritual beliefs as dogma without actually doing an empirical investigation into reality for themselves. Patrick, I invite you to question that resistance because it sounds like it might be preventing you from developing healthy spiritual practices that can actually help you heal. Maybe ask yourself if there's a parental figure in your life at some point that would not be accepting of a spiritual identity. Just some food for thought

[Nahm]

On 3/27/2020 at 11:25 PM, Patrick Lynam said:

What I don't understand is why so many life coaches/ therapists say that you shouldn't do them. If they're scared to take psychedelics themselves why cant they just admit that?

It might be because they are focused on your psychological well being & flourishing. If you go to the butcher and ask about psychedelics, they’ll probably keep talking primarily about meat, attempting to help you decipher what you want. 

Quote

I feel like if I was to take a psychedelic and contemplate this i could find an answer but I seem to have a belief that people who take psychedelics are deluding themselves and will inevitably develop a spiritual ego. This thing of spiritual ego is more terrifying to me than any bad trip Iv'e had. 

People who take psychedelics find out the extent to which they are deluded. It’s an incredibly brave endeavor. By and large, that’s the point in taking them. That “I am a human in a physical universe of objective reality and will one day die” is entirely delusional. A psychedelic will likely, shockingly, reveal this. But if you don’t have a solid foundation, imo, clean diet, fit, practiced meditation, calm mind...they might ‘help’ but that might be a rough time to be trying them. They reveal, but they do not “fix” anything.  Foundation first, smoother sailing, much more enjoyable, much more transcendence. 

I have a different take on spiritual ego, which you might find comforting. Imo, it’s a very solid stage on the path, and not something which could ever justify fear. Nothing justifies fear, that’s the nature of fear. Inspect it, and it disappears.  Along the path, the finite mind ‘cracks open’, and infinite intelligence is known to you. Love & intelligence flows through your body, and insight after insight blows your mind in the most delightful way. When you talk with someone during that time, that intelligence ‘received’ in the body, “goes straight to your head”, and you end up coming across in ways you didn’t really intend to, or just generally making a fool out of yourself and (hopefully) apologizing later. Ok. So what. Do your best to manage it, be honest, be willing to apologize and forgive yourself & others. Not the end of the world, it’s progress, expansion, understanding.

It’s waaaayy better than fear, stagnation, self doubt, not living the life you want & can create.  It’ll take some experience to ‘get a handle on it’. Like any stage, it comes & goes. That’s ok though. 

Btw, imo, you have discord between feeling, and your thought about spiritual egos. Not a fear of having a spiritual ego. That would not be actual, or possible, if you haven’t yet experienced it. It might have more to do with thinking about what other people are thinking about, you. If so, notice, you don’t know if other people are thinking, let alone what they are thinking. Let that go...by returning to the tree of life, your life. Make a dreamboard. Create. Let other people be other people. Focus your focus, into your creation, your life.  

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm Bro, you’re fucking awesome, by far the most helpful and understanding guy on here, and I’ve only heard good things from your students. 
 

Just wanted to say “you” are a legend, also, do you cover manifestation in your sessions / is that a big part of your dream board? 

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4

You are awesome!

I don’t know bout all that, but thanks.

Yes & yes. Also the sessions are always a one off. There’s no agenda or ‘plan’. It’s really steered by who I’m talking with. Honestly, I ‘check out’ so to speak. Sometimes it’s transcending fear, anxiety, depression, etc, and then manifestation. Sometimes both together. Sometimes neither. 

??

[mandyjw]

9 hours ago, Nahm said:

When you talk with someone during that time, that intelligence ‘received’ in the body, “goes straight to your head”, and you end up coming across in ways you didn’t really intend to, or just generally making a fool out of yourself and (hopefully) apologizing later. Ok. So what. Do your best to manage it, be honest, be willing to apologize and forgive yourself & others. Not the end of the world, it’s progress, expansion, understanding.

This should really be on a billboard. 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw 

”Philboard” ? 

Aside... angels...angles....hmmm hmmm?

[Aaron p]

Let those who will use them, use them. I wouldnt force someone to use them, but I think it's true that subtle dogma gets in the way. Psychedelics are too powerful haha. Blows a big hole wide open in...something haha. It would be a mistake to underestimate the power contained within the field of psychedelics ♥️ 

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@mandyjw 

”Philboard” ? 

Aside... angels...angles....hmmm hmmm?

  angles of the pyramids angels peeramid

[Nahm]

@mandyjw ???

[Charlotte]

Unfortunately they come with a long standing stigma which is slowly being broken down