No self/No belief = FREEDOM!!

[SOUL]

@VeganAwake  You don't know what I experience but I am aware of yours. You have become aware of awareness at the heart, so to speak, of consciousness that is free from self, this isn't something that 'falls away', it just is.

It was there when we were a baby and as we grew we became distracted from presence by the activity of the mind, that activity is generating the sense of self. Except, now we aren't distracted from presence, unattached awareness of being.

Yet the sense of self still exists because the body still has the urges, impulses and sensations of it's biological nature. Our stomach still grumbles, our toe hurts when we stub it and it produces the stuff it did before to motivate the preservation of the organic entity.

The change is in that we aren't distracted by it, we keep present in unattached awareness so this is that 'freedom' you speak of. It's what brings liberation because we don't attach to the mind's activity and place our trust in the identity it presents so cease self suffering.

There is opportunity for us to condition the mind and body to be less 'clingy' in it's activity so it comes in harmony with awareness. This subconscious cultivation can amplify the presence we experience, our being finds unity through it and without any inner conflict it is a tangible peace.

The difference is that I don't create a story around this experience, I just be it. The dogmatic no self narrative is surely popular but it is another belief system oriented around dualism of true and false. You can craft your story telling so it is flawless according to the sages through the ages but it is just a story.

So don't mistake what I perceive and experience but it transcends the no self story, what is just is and I don't need to create it to be something more than what it is, I just accept what is.

But yea... you keep honing your story, someone will believe it....mostly you.

Edited March 30, 2020 by SOUL

[LfcCharlie4]

@SOUL Must admit that is a great description of the No-Self dogma. 
 

One thing I hope- our public services workers don’t awaken without the awakening to love and start regurgitating “nothing matters” there’s nobody there to their patients! 

[electroBeam]

if nothing matters, that means your promotion as a nurse doesn't matter, your video games after work, your racist beliefs, etc. All that's left is to follow the moment - which just happens to be giving love to patients because that's what the world is.

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, electroBeam said:

if nothing matters, that means your promotion as a nurse doesn't matter, your video games after work, your racist beliefs, etc. All that's left is to follow the moment - which just happens to be giving love to patients because that's what the world is.

U got it ?

[LfcCharlie4]

@electroBeam I completely agree absolutely speaking nothing matters. 
 

But, when you truly understand nothing matters, and you’ve truly understood THIS, you’ve found the “thing” that does matter. 
 

Happiness. Love. 
 

My worry is that your average No-Self teacher falls into the trap of nothing matters, without an awakening to Love, leaving it as kind of Non-Dual Nihilism that you see a lot. 
 

Once “Nothing Matters” is fused with Love, the issue is non existent, of course to The Self/ Absolute, absolutely nothing matters whatsoever, and in fact nothing ever happens either, and everything is perfect as it is. 
 

 

[VeganAwake]

4 hours ago, SOUL said:

@VeganAwake  You don't know what I experience but I am aware of yours. You have become aware of awareness at the heart, so to speak, of consciousness that is free from self, this isn't something that 'falls away', it just is.

It was there when we were a baby and as we grew we became distracted from presence by the activity of the mind, that activity is generating the sense of self. Except, now we aren't distracted from presence, unattached awareness of being.

Yet the sense of self still exists because the body still has the urges, impulses and sensations of it's biological nature. Our stomach still grumbles, our toe hurts when we stub it and it produces the stuff it did before to motivate the preservation of the organic entity.

The change is in that we aren't distracted by it, we keep present in unattached awareness so this is that 'freedom' you speak of. It's what brings liberation because we don't attach to the mind's activity and place our trust in the identity it presents so cease self suffering.

There is opportunity for us to condition the mind and body to be less 'clingy' in it's activity so it comes in harmony with awareness. This subconscious cultivation can amplify the presence we experience, our being finds unity through it and without any inner conflict it is a tangible peace.

The difference is that I don't create a story around this experience, I just be it. The dogmatic no self narrative is surely popular but it is another belief system oriented around dualism of true and false. You can craft your story telling so it is flawless according to the sages through the ages but it is just a story.

So don't mistake what I perceive and experience but it transcends the no self story, what is just is and I don't need to create it to be something more than what it is, I just accept what is.

But yea... you keep honing your story, someone will believe it....mostly you.

It's not dualistic because the separate self never actually existed it's a misidentification that has the power create an effect.

Something cannot be dualistic when one thing is real and the other does not exist. There needs to be two apparently real objects for dualism to even exist..( a hot desert and the Mirage of water in the desert does not create dualism because the Mirage was never real to begin with)

There's still a conditioned body here ...you will still turn your head if somebody calls your name or jump out of the way of a train.. the human body may still prefer tea over coffee and knows to get a drink of water or get something to eat.

 

[VeganAwake]

It's a freedom message and its intention is to deprogram the social conditioning and egoic self agenda..

Snapping out of The Matrix claiming your freedom...

Breaking Free from the confines of your own mind.

This isn't saying one way is better than the other it just seems that some people want this message attempts to reveal ❤

[Consilience]

The Mind of Absolute Trust

The great way isn't difficult for those who are unattached to their preferences.

Let go of longing and aversion, and everything will be perfectly clear.

When you cling to a hairbreadth of distinction, heaven and earth are set apart.

If you want to realize the truth, don't be for or against.

The struggle between good and evil is the primal disease of the mind.

Not grasping the deeper meaning, you just trouble your minds serenity.

As vast as infinite space, it is perfect and lacks nothing.

But because you select and reject, you can't perceive its true nature.

Don't get entangled in the world; don't lose yourself in emptiness.

Be at peace in the oneness of things, and all errors will disappear by themselves.

If you don't live the Tao, you fall into assertion or denial.

Asserting that the world is real, you are blind to its deeper reality;

denying that the world is real, you are blind to the selflessness of all things.

The more you think about these matters, the farther you are from the truth.

Step aside from all thinking, and there is nowhere you can't go.

Returning to the root, you find the meaning;

chasing appearances, you lose there source.

At the moment of profound insight, you transcend both appearance and emptiness.

Don't keep searching for the truth; just let go of your opinions.

For the mind in harmony with the Tao, all selfishness disappears.

With not even a trace of self-doubt, you can trust the universe completely.

All at once you are free, with nothing left to hold on to.

All is empty, brilliant, perfect in its own being.

In the world of things as they are, there is no self, no non self.

If you want to describe its essence, the best you can say is "Not-two."

In this "Not-two" nothing is separate, and nothing in the world is excluded.

The enlightened of all times and places have entered into this truth.

In it there is no gain or loss; one instant is ten thousand years.

There is no here, no there; infinity is right before your eyes.

The tiny is as large as the vast when objective boundaries have vanished;

the vast is as small as the tiny when you don't have external limits.

Being is an aspect of non-being; non-being is no different from being.

Until you understand this truth, you won't see anything clearly.

One is all; all are one. When you realize this, what reason for holiness or wisdom?

The mind of absolute trust is beyond all thought, all striving,

is perfectly at peace, for in it there is no yesterday, no today, no tomorrow.

[VeganAwake]

5 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@SOUL Must admit that is a great description of the No-Self dogma. 
 

One thing I hope- our public services workers don’t awaken without the awakening to love and start regurgitating “nothing matters” there’s nobody there to their patients! 

I mentioned this before.... a quick way you can tell if something is ego driven is by not doing it....

If by not doing the action, there's a feeling of guilt or diminishment of ones sense of self worth.

You can be sure it's the egoic self agenda at work as the spiritual ego/ do-gooder ego... the new higher self... shoot that's just spiritual ego sneaking in the back door and taking its control back to survive.

[Javfly33]

55 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@electroBeam I completely agree absolutely speaking nothing matters. 
 

But, when you truly understand nothing matters, and you’ve truly understood THIS, you’ve found the “thing” that does matter. 
 

Happiness. Love. 
 

My worry is that your average No-Self teacher falls into the trap of nothing matters, without an awakening to Love, leaving it as kind of Non-Dual Nihilism that you see a lot. 
 

Once “Nothing Matters” is fused with Love, the issue is non existent, of course to The Self/ Absolute, absolutely nothing matters whatsoever, and in fact nothing ever happens either, and everything is perfect as it is. 
 

 

Man I can't wait to that into that Love aspect of the Absolute ?Im so hyped ?

[electroBeam]

@LfcCharlie4 love doesn't have to matter to BE, that's why its so miraculous

EDIT: i see matter as psychological bondage. You may see the word differently.

Edited March 30, 2020 by electroBeam

[SOUL]

7 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's not dualistic because the separate self never actually existed it's a misidentification that has the power create an effect.

Something cannot be dualistic when one thing is real and the other does not exist. There needs to be two apparently real objects for dualism to even exist..( a hot desert and the Mirage of water in the desert does not create dualism because the Mirage was never real to begin with)

There's still a conditioned body here ...you will still turn your head if somebody calls your name or jump out of the way of a train.. the human body may still prefer tea over coffee and knows to get a drink of water or get something to eat.

A misidentification exists....it is what it is....a mirage exists, it is what it is. It may not be as it appears but it exists as it is. This is acceptance of what is.

The misinterpretation of illusion as 'does not exist' is a common one and yes, it exists, yet an illusion is 'not as it appears'. We can transcend the appearance of self like seeing how the magician does the illusion, the mind is a mental magician performance for the observer, our awareness.

Then you go on to say the body is still here....so which is it? Dropped or still here? Your right about spiritual ego, though, it sneaks back in all sorts of belief about 'what is' to justify itself.

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." - Albert Einstein

Edited March 30, 2020 by SOUL

[VeganAwake]

Think of humans just like animals... they have Natural Instincts and conditioning to the surrounding environment.

Then the separate sense of self or ego starts being created from around the age of 2 and keeps attaching things and beliefs to its sense of self and believes it's running the human body... it literally thinks it is the human body....

This illusion of the ME that appears in the human body is completely unreal...

When Awakening occurs this sense of ME is completely seen to be illusory.(IT FALLS AWAY)

This is why it's called Awakening...

You quite literally wake up out of the dream of being a separate 'ME' inside the body...

I just like how well she describes things. ?

[Inliytened1]

@VeganAwake you are not yet awake   When you are truly awake you can teach others.  

[Consilience]

You think that having insight into the nature of ego as an illusion means the ego never existed. This is false. There has an will always be a self keeping the body alive, it’s literally the mechanism keeping you alive. Just because you arent the self, just because the self isn’t actually a solid entity, just because there is no consistent thing called an ego, just because you are nothing, doesn't mean you dont exist nor does it mean this separate self isnt still keeping the body alive, it very much is. It has and will always exist until you die. 

This is the key belief system you’ve taken on: that your lack of identity with the ego and the fact the nature of this ego is fluid, shifting, immaterial, non-solid, to mean it doesn’t exist. This is ego *is* survival. *You* are creating this self survival system, you just havent become aware of it. You are also creating a belief of no self out of your existential nature being no self, except it’s the ego adopting this belief, not you. Because id you were truly awake, you’d know yourself to be real despite your self not existing at all. Until your being reconciles this paradox, you are deluding yourself. 

[VeganAwake]

There is no belief taken on... that's a misunderstanding..

What's been recognized by no one is the separate self that seems to be identified with the human body is not real.

It's not a gaining of understanding it's a falling away of something that never existed

[Consilience]

1 minute ago, VeganAwake said:

There is no belief taken on... that's a misunderstanding..

What's been recognized by no one is the separate self that seems to be identified with the human body is not real.

It's not a gaining of understanding it's a falling away of something that never existed

It’s a falling into a paradigm. The separate self as a self is not real, but it is very much still in operation. If you dont care about inquiring into the nature of your experience, the force driving your experience to comment on the forum and keep the body alive, more power to you. The no one which knows it’s no one, who is that? What is that? 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

@VeganAwake you are not yet awake   When you are truly awake you can teach others.  

Well what's been recognized here is that there isn't a ME or Others...

This is exactly why Leo says to go out and find your own truth instead of adopting his beliefs.

 

Edited March 31, 2020 by VeganAwake

[VeganAwake]

Let me guess I am God but I've placed myself in the finite form and rendered myself powerless....lol

Time for something new bud... doesn't that just sound ridiculous...

There is no God and there was never a you..

 

[Consilience]

1 minute ago, VeganAwake said:

Let me guess I am God but I've placed myself in the finite form and rendered myself powerless....lol

Time for something new bud... doesn't that just sound ridiculous...

There is no God and there was never a you..

 

I wasn’t asking to get an answer like God. The force driving you to make a comment like “Time for something new bud...” and the force driving youe assumption this “bud” was looking for an answer like god, what *is* that? 

I was asking as a genuine inquiry. If you are no one, if there is no one, who and what are you? Let’s assume what you’re stating is true, there is no one and nothing. The question remains: who and what are you?