Enlightened Person Dealing With Death

[Greatnestwithin]

How would an enlightened person deal with death? someone with a family, with kids etc

How that process in the mind of an enlightened person would  be? the lost of the lovers one, people close to them. 

Would they be able to be in the present moment from the moment they know their lovers ones are not longer with them? would they be able to carry on, keep doing all the things they were doing, with their business, their friendships etc. How would they deal with all the memories from the past etc

How would they deal with all sort of emotions, feelings, sensations, thoughts, that would arise in their minds?

Would they react as a not "enlightened person" when they realize that they wouldn´t be able to see them again, to touch them, to be with them etc

 

Thanks for your time

 

[Natasha]

@Greatnestwithin They would see death as the end of the illusion that there was someone, and live their last days being rooted in the present. I recently read an article about the last words famous people said before dying, and what struck me was those who were known to be conscious/ awaken, spoke peacefully and graciously before death, no worry or regret before they took their last breath. Steve Job's last words reflected his being fully present in the moment while dying, "Oh wow.. oh wow.. oh wow". And some others were simple, "I love you" to their family, or a beautiful metaphor of leaving the dream.   

[Khin]

Everything is changing including body and mind. So there is no entity. No such thing as me and mine. In that case, ...... nothing could bother them anymore. 

[Greatnestwithin]

 What we call identity, it´s just an activity of the mind. if there is no one having an experience, then what remains is the fact of just awareness being aware of itself.

But I wonder. let´s say that a man who has lost his family, would thoughts, feelings and sensations related to sadness, lost etc arise in his mind.

I´m really curious of how the activity in his mind would be... his day to day after his lost.

These days I find quite difficult to work in self-development, to dive deep into it, to study, to do different techniques etc and at the same time realize that there is no one who is improving, that in fact that one who I believe I am is just an activity in the mind, it´s an illusion.

Very paradoxical...

 

Thanks @Khin @Natasha for your answers!

[cirkussmile]

Eckhart said "You want to die before you die"

Death is a one time experience. You can't prepare so the most powerful thing would be to watch and enjoy it just as it is. Like everything else.

[Emerald]

On 6/25/2016 at 8:13 AM, Greatnestwithin said:

How would an enlightened person deal with death? someone with a family, with kids etc

How that process in the mind of an enlightened person would  be? the lost of the lovers one, people close to them. 

Would they be able to be in the present moment from the moment they know their lovers ones are not longer with them? would they be able to carry on, keep doing all the things they were doing, with their business, their friendships etc. How would they deal with all the memories from the past etc

How would they deal with all sort of emotions, feelings, sensations, thoughts, that would arise in their minds?

Would they react as a not "enlightened person" when they realize that they wouldn´t be able to see them again, to touch them, to be with them etc

 

Thanks for your time

 

I can't speak from experience about the losing a close family member aspect of your question. I didn't have many people close to me then. But, during my experiences where I had seen (briefly) through the illusion of ego, I had zero fear of death. It was complete and total acceptance and approval of the fact that I would one day die and be forgotten. These were the only times where death wasn't terrifying to me.

[Greatnestwithin]

@Emerald Wilkins Thanks, may I know what tecnique or tecniques you use. is self enquiry the direct method?

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Emerald Wilkins Thanks, may I know what tecnique or tecniques you use. is self enquiry the direct method?

I sort of stumbled into it through recreational experimentation with Ayahuasca, seven years ago. The experiences weren't permanent and don't help me now. So, I don't recommend doing the same. If anything they've done as much harm as good. I didn't relate them to 'enlightenment' until I found Leo's videos a year and a half ago, so I was trying to figure out how to get back to that state and taking shots in the dark at how to do it. But currently I use strong determination sitting style Vipassana meditation plus intermittently through the day I ask myself "What is perceiving this?"

[Greatnestwithin]

@Emerald Wilkins thanks.

I do that aswell, I try to remind myself and ask "who is aware " who is percieving" etc 

It gets to a point where I think I know in a intellectual level that there is no one percieving, no identity... 

So when I ask myself those questions, silence follows as a form of answer so I was wondering, what separates that silence being the answer and actually having an insight, a realization, that which we call "becoming enlightened"?

Any idea, thoughts about it?

Edited June 27, 2016 by Greatnestwithin

[Greatnestwithin]

@Emerald Wilkins also would you mind explaining how do you exactly do the strong determination sitting style Vipassana?  

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Emerald Wilkins thanks.

I do that aswell, I try to remind myself and ask "who is aware " who is percieving" etc 

It gets to a point where I think I know in a intellectual level that there is no one percieving, no identity... 

So when I ask myself those questions, silence follows as a form of answer so I was wondering, what separates that silence being the answer and actually having an insight, a realization, that which we call "becoming enlightened"?

Any idea, thoughts about it?

That's a good question. I have recollection of the experience, but some details are a bit fuzzy at this point. When the first moments of the experiences came on, it felt like was just a complete unburdening of my identity and joy and relief at the release. Like imagine that you had been having a nightmare that all of your family and loved ones had just died the most painful death because of something that you accidentally did, then you woke up and realized it was all a dream and all the guilt, fear, and pain went away. This was the equivalent of that level of unburdening. Like I just didn't care about my self concept when previously I had taken it so seriously. So, it felt like relief and I suddenly had no fear. I still knew how to keep up my appearance if I found it useful, but I didn't need to sacrifice any awareness, emotion, or action to protect my identity. It was like a dissolving and decentering of identity but not a disappearance. But I can't quite remember how the initial insight occured in the exact way. I wasn't questioning my identity or anything like that, nor was I engaged in any form of inquiry. I don't remember any particular thoughts coming up. I just remember the relief.

1 hour ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Emerald Wilkins also would you mind explaining how do you exactly do the strong determination sitting style Vipassana?  

Vipassana is basically mindfulness meditation. So, I do mindfulness meditation without voluntarily moving for the duration of the sit.

[Greatnestwithin]

@Emerald Wilkins thanks for your time and answers.

 

[Azrael]

2 hours ago, Greatnestwithin said:

So when I ask myself those questions, silence follows as a form of answer so I was wondering, what separates that silence being the answer and actually having an insight, a realization, that which we call "becoming enlightened"?

@Emerald Wilkins, interesting answer! In the last year I had some periods - mostly a set of 3-5 days every few months - in which I felt completely enlightened. It then always went away and brought cycles of horrors and transformation after it.

What I found so astonishing while I had theses enlightenment experiences is that I felt like somebody just pulled a cork outta me and I just felt like after all this time I am home. It kinda expressed itself in every little part: I moved a little bit slower, I acted and breathed very rhythmically just out of intuition and it felt a bit like flying - like you are weightless.

If you meditate, focus on that one sensation of feeling unwell. There is this one feeling that nearly all of the time is inside of you. For me it is a lot in my upper body and brain. It's like a tension. This is your experiential guess that you are separate (in my experience).

You feel this a lot if you sit for 90 minutes or longer. It is like the centre out of all the urges to stand up, to worry, to fuck your mind up comes from - it feels like that. When you have an enlightenment experience this tension just loosens up and by default you feel to be everything you can possible perceive.

And out of this release of tension I felt that all calmness, all understanding, flow, tears of joy and knowing just came by. If you have this a few times and you see it then tighten up again - loosing tightness and you have this in cycles - you begin to notice how you are mainly talked into the illusion of yourself by your thoughts that come up and everything you come in contact with in the normal society.

I just had to think about how as children you tighten up yourself if your mom and dad found out you had a little bit too much fun. This sensation probably manifests at some point in life because you feel it again and again and because this is so unpleasant you begin to play all kind of games to not feel this. And by that you let a seed of separation grow inside you.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Arik

[Greatnestwithin]

@Arik Thank you, I do appreciate your answer and the key advice of focusing on the unwell sensation.

[30secs]

when I read the question, I imagined Jesus Christ hanged on the cross, this might be whats look like an Enlightened man dying, it's not sad at all it's sign of love.

[Natasha]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:51 PM, Greatnestwithin said:

But I wonder. let´s say that a man who has lost his family, would thoughts, feelings and sensations related to sadness, lost etc arise in his mind.

I´m really curious of how the activity in his mind would be... his day to day after his lost.

A self-realized (enlightened) man would experience same emotions of sadness and grief as anyone else would upon losing a loved one. But his perspective, though, would allow him not to get attached to those feelings nor feel like a victim. He would see everything as life at play, even in the midst of a tragic event like this, and that's what would make him truly untouchable. 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Natasha

[Greatnestwithin]

@Natasha thanks for your answer!  

[JustinS]

@Greatnestwithin

On 6/25/2016 at 5:13 AM, Greatnestwithin said:

How would they deal with all sort of emotions, feelings, sensations, thoughts, that would arise in their minds?

They would definitely feel all of this to great degree, or probably even greater than the average folk, but it doesn't remain long after it has been felt. I'd imagine it like as a mother duck witnesses the death of her little duckling, she may feel sorrow, but then it passes and she soon forgets and moves on flowing with life. A great deal of presence. 

 

On 6/25/2016 at 5:13 AM, Greatnestwithin said:

Would they be able to be in the present moment from the moment they know their lovers ones are not longer with them? would they be able to carry on, keep doing all the things they were doing, with their business, their friendships etc. How would they deal with all the memories from the past etc

Yes, the past is just a memory from the present. A pas thought, past experience, and past memories are all just projections from the present moment. Whatever that is physically in front of these enlightened people are the only things that are true in their present reality. Enlightened people would have transcended the mind, and the ego, as attachments of any kind would have fleeted. 

[Greatnestwithin]

@JustinS thanks, much clear now. 

These past days I've been asking myself a lot through out the day such questions like " who is aware" "who is getting Hurt" "Who is percieving " etc 

And silence always follows as a form of answer as I ask myself from a place of genuine curiosity, like really really truly!!  who I am... 

And the answer is always the same, just silence...nothing appears in my mind. And when that happens I remain with that silence for as long as I can until a thought arises.

Even though dead is an illusion, is a very real one that is why I was wondering how a self- realized person would deal with dead.

Thanks everyone for your answers :-) 

 

 

 

 

[charlie2dogs]

23 minutes ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@JustinS thanks, much clear now. 

These past days I've been asking myself a lot through out the day such questions like " who is aware" "who is getting Hurt" "Who is percieving " etc 

And silence always follows as a form of answer as I ask myself from a place of genuine curiosity, like really really truly!!  who I am... 

And the answer is always the same, just silence...nothing appears in my mind. And when that happens I remain with that silence for as long as I can until a thought arises.

Even though dead is an illusion, is a very real one that is why I was wondering how a self- realized person would deal with dead.

Thanks everyone for your answers :-) 

 

 

 

 

self realized have already overcome death while still living there is no such thing as death to them.  death is just a thought in your mind.

however it does matter in what state you leave the body,  either as a liberated being, or as a unconscious functioning human identity with lots of quantum memory to deal with after leaving the body.

Edited June 29, 2016 by charlie2dogs