If there is no perception what do I do with all this me stuff

[from chaos into self]

Like I'm watching Leo's video on perception and it's not making sense. If there is no internal world, it is all external, and there is no bubble, it is all one big sponge, I am all of everything..... what do I do with this me stuff that remains? This body and these thoughts and this concious experience.... it doesn't go away just because I cease to believe in it. When ego dies there still remains an individual living a life with certain consious expereinces and not all of everything. I cannot suddenly become all of everything and leave this "body mind" thing. I'm limited and that won't go away until I literally die, and who knows what happens to that "soul"

 

so if I'm nonduality itself, what happens to this me-ness? What am I supposed to do with it? It needs to eat and sleep and exercise and etc. I can't just stop being that - it hast to keep going - if it is an illusion what of it?

[Sempiternity]

Realize that unless you have an Awakening, all this is not going to make sense and just be concepts to you, so don't let it fuck with your head too much. Your limited consciousness can't understand. 

If you really want to know what is going on, then work towards awakening. If not, then just enjoy the ride. Either you awaken and know how everything works while you're 'a person', or you die and find out then. 

[fridjonk]

48 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

If there is no internal world, it is all external

No, It is both. It can not be all external without internal, because what is external if there is no such thing as internal to compare it to. Absolutely speaking, it is all one and all barriers of internal/external fly out the window. 

50 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

When ego dies there still remains an individual living a life with certain consious expereinces and not all of everything.

Then it's not an ego death, that's a realization of the false self. Full ego death means you won't know you ever were a human at all. 

52 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

It needs to eat and sleep and exercise and etc. I can't just stop being that - it hast to keep going - if it is an illusion what of it?

Of course, that's the game of survival. 

[from chaos into self]

7 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Then it's not an ego death, that's a realization of the false self. Full ego death means you won't know you ever were a human at all. 

That seems wrong. Leo has talked of ego-death as awakening.... to awaken leaves memory of what was before. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jed Vassallo said:

Realize that unless you have an Awakening, all this is not going to make sense and just be concepts to you, so don't let it fuck with your head too much. Your limited consciousness can't understand. 
 

I can and do understand the concepts. The thing is that what Leo is saying does not answer the conundrum that when you awaken you remain the same. Before enlightenment, chop wood carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood carry water. This will hold true for all what is "me" - I don't magically become the bubble that is Leo because I'm enlightened. I may be the universe, yet still there remains a segregation of my consious experience from the rest of the universe. If throwing that away would be the answer, then killing myself would achieve it much faster. There's something that I'm missing, which is, if the universe is all one, a field of infinite consiousness, then why do I remain me? 

 

It's a strange question to ask because if the universe is all one then it is also all of the dual existences too. To say the universe is nondual is a bit of a paradox. 

 

In the video about perception, leo is working towards the realization that there is no perception, only existence, and perception is illusory. False. But if that is so, and I leave perception to find experience itself, how does that change and affect my experiences being seperate from the entire infinite universe?

 

it just seems pointless to me. I guess I'm more moved by practical teachings then by the more spiritual stuff.

[Sempiternity]

Well, maybe think of it this way. Right now you live from a perception of separateness. All your problems and suffering is a result of separateness. If you awoken and realized you are creating literally everything, it's all your dream that you are imaging, all other people are just your imagination, how would this effect how you perceive your life? Would you have conflict with others if you knew they were you/your creation? Not as a concept, but as an absolute truth. Would you get upset, knowing you created what is upsetting you? The image wouldn't change, but how you perceive it would change. Once you awaken to your absolute true nature, all there is to do is enjoy the show you are creating. Knowing you are both the all of infinity and the limited form you are experiencing, and whatever is occurring this moment is absolutely perfect. 

[fridjonk]

30 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

to awaken leaves memory of what was before.

To awaken means you realize there never was a before, you realize it was all imaginary. 

32 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

I don't magically become the bubble that is Leo because I'm enlightened.

You assume that from experience or just guessing? 

33 minutes ago, from chaos into self said:

I may be the universe, yet still there remains a segregation of my consious experience from the rest of the universe. If throwing that away would be the answer, then killing myself would achieve it much faster.

Yes killing yourself IS the only answer, and I don't mean physical death, I mean full ego death which is exactly the same as physical death. Only then do you find out there never was a death, there never was life. It was all imaginary. 

All these questions you pose are the result of an ego clinging to be a little "I". One can not think their way to non-duality, only direct experience.  

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, from chaos into self said:

I cannot suddenly become all of everything

Yes you can.

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I'm limited and that won't go away

You are unlimited

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so if I'm nonduality itself, what happens to this me-ness?

Me-ness is a total illusion. Me is imaginary.

You could imagine that you are a walrus. Does that make it true?

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What am I supposed to do with it?

Awakening will rob you of the illusion of me-ness. You will realize, "OMFG!!! How could I ever think I was real?!"

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It needs to eat and sleep and exercise and etc.

It does. But it is not you. When you see a bird outside eating and sleeping, do you think it is you? Why then do you that when "your" body does that?

Why do you take for granted that the experience happening right now is yours? What if it isn't yours? What if it just is, without you?

Is the sky yours? No? Then why is the body yours?

I have as much right to claim "your" body as mine as you have to claim it yours! Because it's all relative. It is whatever you imagine it to be.

You can't understand what I'm saying because of you did, you'd disappear.

Fundamentally you cannot help assuming you are real. This assumption distorts your whole understanding of reality. It doesn't make sense to you how reality could exist without a human self. But the human self is imaginary.

[from chaos into self]

Thanks for the insight

[Osaid]

@Leo Gura Why does my awareness feel so attached to this human body instead of some random object? Is it because inanimate objects cannot be aware and don't have the same capabilities as a human body? 

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Osaid

[Heaven]

@Leo Gura Do u think enlightenment and to awake from the dream is for everyone?

[Leo Gura]

39 minutes ago, Osaid said:

@Leo Gura Why does my awareness feel so attached to this human body instead of some random object?

Because you think you were born.

You need some story to believe you were born. No story, no self.

A TV screen is not attached to the images it displays.

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Is it because inanimate objects cannot be aware and don't have the same capabilities as a human body? 

The human body is not aware of anything.

Awareness is not yours. You don't have awareness, awareness has you.

11 minutes ago, Heaven said:

@Leo Gura Do u think enlightenment and to awake from the dream is for everyone?

Probably not. Most people just aren't curious enough.

[WHO IS]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because you think you were born.

You need some story to believe you were born. Without the story you can be.

The human body is not aware of anything.

Awareness is not yours. You don't have awareness, awareness has you.

Probably not. Most people just aren't curious enough.

If people/humans do not have awareness and it is the awareness that has them instead, does it mean then that most "awarenesses" arent curious enough? 

[Osaid]

@Leo Gura I am awareness experiencing itself. I can taste food because I am awareness experiencing a human body, which can taste food. 

A lamp has no capacity to think, move, taste food, etc. 

Even though I know I am the lamp since everything is consciousness and everything is me, the lamp has no capabilities which allow it to develop a sense of self like a human can.

Is this the reason that people are under the illusion of being attached to their body?

Thanks for the response.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Osaid said:

@Leo Gura I am awareness experiencing itself. I can taste food because I am awareness experiencing a human body, which can taste food. 

A lamp has no capacity to think, move, taste food, etc. 

Even though I know I am the lamp since everything is consciousness and everything is me, the lamp has no capabilities which allow it to develop a sense of self like a human can.

Is this the reason that people are under the illusion of being attached to their body?

Thanks for the response.

There is no difference between a lamp and a human body. Both are just images on a screen.

There are no "people". There are just some shapes which you say is a person. You might as well call a snowman a person.

Try looking at the world as if humans and animals never existed. But all shapes and colors are still the same as before. Just remove the humanness from it all.

Imagine instead that you are the cosmos looking at itself.

When you see a lamp, imagine that you are not looking at the lamp but that the lamp is seeing itself.

The room you think you're in is actually self-seeing. Every object sees itself. And the net result is that it looks like this room "you see". You are the only thing which isn't real in the room.

You are not in the room! There is just a room with objects in it like chairs and bodies.

[Osaid]

@Leo Gura Oh wow I'm starting to get it now. Thanks.

[Enlightenment]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But all shapes and colors are still the same as before.

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is just a room with objects in it like chairs and bodies.

But then how can you say you are unlimited when even on 5-MeO breakthrough, awareness still has the same set of shapes and colors? This is probably the biggest mystery for me. Even tho I've had a breakthrough, like you say colores and shapes didn't disappear (I had my eyes open). Isn't there a possibility that awareness is in fact, a mental construct, a composite of physical and mental phenomena?

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

But then how can you say you are unlimited when even on 5-MeO breakthrough, awareness still has the same set of shapes and colors? This is probably the biggest mystery for me.

All shapes and colors are Infinity.

Whatever is appearing right now before you is Infinity made manifest.

Do not confuse Infinity for emptiness or formlessness.

A roll of toilet paper is Infinity.

Your breakthroughs are still skin deep. You'll need about 100 of them to start to get somewhere. And serious contemplation.