Psychedelic drug = energy issues?

[Forestluv]

39 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

It's because our very nature is happiness.  People are seeking themselves although most are not aware of this.

Our very nature is every form of happiness and unhappiness imaginable - as well as the absence of happiness. If a human is oriented to believe “our very nature is happiness” and seeks happiness as true nature, that is fine. Yet it is also contracted and limited. There are aspects of truth, awakening and understanding beyond happiness - if a person is focused on happiness they will miss this - they will avoid or dismiss truths and realizations that appear as being non-happy.

I’m not saying it’s a “bad” belief or a “wrong” belief. If I placed happiness over truth and understanding, I would take abiding happiness in a heartbeat. Yet I have no interest in abiding happiness. I’m more interested in being open to all forms of truth, whatever the feelings or consequences at the human level. Yet this is much easier said than done - when it’s time to face it, it can be challenging. 

14 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

Unless you're content with the innate fulfillment and peace that come with realizing your true nature. Anything beyond this fulfillment is superfluous, in my humble opinion.

This is placing relative human feeling / experience above ultimate truth and understanding. There’s nothing wrong with this, yet it is a relatively surface level. The mind will call more expansive and deeper truths/understanding “superfluous” because it doesn’t want to venture there. Which is fine, not every mind-body is oriented toward realizing the totality of truth. Most humans only want to realize a subset of truth (that is acceptable and pleasing to them).  Just like not every mind-body is oriented toward climbing Mt. Everest. 

 

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Leo Gura does the temporary nature of the state of psychedelics frustrate you, and are you aiming for more permanence?

Yes and yes.

Quote

Do you see any sort of practice which can give you a permanent state of 30g of 5-meo-dmt? Or till technology evolves, we are subject to impermanence? 

I don't see any way right now to be permanently at 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT. Not even close. It's far too much consciousness.

But I think I can raise my baseline state of consciousness significantly with more practice of just sitting and emptying out my mind. That's what I'll be working on.

10 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

Unless you're content with the innate fulfillment and peace that come with realizing your true nature. Anything beyond this fulfillment is superfluous, in my humble opinion.

Except you haven't yet realized your full true nature. To realize your true nature requires radical understanding of what God is.

You can be in state of peace and fulfillment, but that is not the same as being Awake as God.

A cat can sit and be at peace and fulfilled. But it has no clue what God is.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I don't see any way right now to be permanently at 30mg of 5-MeO-DMT. Not even close. It's far too much consciousness.

But I think I can raise my baseline state of consciousness significantly with more practice of just sitting and emptying out my mind. That's what I'll be working on.

Is there a form of sitting and mind emptying you find effective? 

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Is there a form of sitting and mind emptying you find effective? 

Just sit and do nothing or concentrate on awareness itself.

Total surrender to the present moment is very effective for me.

[Beginner Mind]

@Serotoninluv Happiness is our highest desire.  The only reason we desire anything is because we think that thing will make us happy.  If you knew that your desire for truth would make you miserable, would you still desire it?  I would suggest not.

@Leo Gura I respect your quest for truth (many of the claims you make are interesting), but as I said, anything beyond fulfillment is superfluous.  I'm jealous of any cat that can sit and be totally fulfilled.

[Javfly33]

12 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv f you knew that your desire for truth would make you miserable, would you still desire it?  I would suggest not.

 

bruh

That´s a Rupert´s quote

I would advice against trusting everything of what of a Guru says or gives the impression (sometimes it´s not their fault) to communicate. I actually love Rupert Spira´s teaching but I have no direct experience of actually how it is his experience of life. Unless you are a in a buddha state all day long I don´t see how you are going to be in a hapiness state all day long. 

If really hapiness or bliss is your truly biggest motivation in life, the move is easy. Surrender all desires and go to an ashram to meditate all day long. You probably won´t realize total truth or awakening as leo says, but I´m sure you´ll be in an almost 24/7 peace state all day long. It just that you will have to surrender probably absolutely everything. And I doubt your ego wants to do that.

 I used to think like you, that hapiness and being in peace was my first priority in life, but then I realized if that would be true i would have surrendered everything by now and have gone to a meditation cave. In the inside there´s more drive in me that hapiness or bliss. Sometimes I think if we are alive is to experience live fully and be explorers, as you have said, cats are "happy" or "fullfilled", but they are not really experiencing the 1% of complexity of the human mind do. If you, as God, is experiencing life right now as human, why not open yourself to experience the whole range of the thing? The happiness, the sadness, the discovery, to explore, to create.

But hey, I don´t judge you, ever lasting bliss sure looks delicious, is just doesn´t seem very realistic as a human form. But as I said you can always go to live on a cave.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Javfly33

[Beginner Mind]

@Javfly33 Yes, I'm a Rupert fan.  Is it that obvious? 

I can't speak from personal experience, but there are those who say it's possible to live in permanent peace/happiness.  That's my goal.

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Beginner Mind

[billiesimon]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Just sit and do nothing or concentrate on awareness itself.

Total surrender to the present moment is very effective for me.

This interests me a lot.

I have found some small insights with active inquiry and active focus, but I have problems understanding the "do nothing".

Does the "do nothing" approach bring up insights/shifts in awareness?
But what's the difference between aware "doing nothing" and non-aware "doing nothing"? You should still be laser focused on perceptions I guess.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv Happiness is our highest desire.  The only reason we desire anything is because we think that thing will make us happy.  If you knew that your desire for truth would make you miserable, would you still desire it?  I would suggest not.

What I'm pointing at is prior to knowing whether or not it would make one miserable or happy.

Imagine standing at a closed door and there is truth on the other side of the door. Yet you don't know if what is on the other side of the door will make you happy, peaceful, terrified or agonized. The question is whether one opens the door prior to knowing what it is. At the deeper levels, I don't get to know or decide. It is unconditional surrender and death of me. Not a surrender of "ok, I will surrender if I know it will bring me happiness and if it doesn't I can stop it when I want to", Rather, it is an unconditional surrender of all control. This may mean experiencing indescribable happiness or indescribable agony. It may mean the human experience is temporary or permanent. And yes, I've crossed that door into both realms because the desire for truth was stronger than my personal welfare. Yet I don't recommend it to others unless they are serious seekers of truth and have a lot of experience. Which is pretty much nobody. Nearly every seeker I see is not willing to die for truth. They want the feel good stuff. Which is fine. That is part of the human experience and paths other than mine are fine. Yet ime, the deeper levels can get extremely radical and intense - involving both unimaginable happiness, peace and connection as well as unimaginable terror and agony. When my mind and body ventures to those depths, there is complete surrender and I don't know what is on the other side of the door. Similar to Neo - he didn't know what would happen after he took that pill. Yet his desire for truth was stronger than his desire for personal well being. 

I've now got chronic conditions that are likely due to pushing things so far for so long. At a human level, it's miserable to live with and I knew it would happen, yet realizing truth was more important. 

At a personal level, my mind and body has attraction toward feeling pleasure and avoiding pain. Yet that is not the deepest desire within me. There is a deeper desire to know what is true. Other people are oriented differently and that's totally fine. I'm not trying to suggest my path is any better or worse than another. However, if someone's deepest desire is to realize truth, regardless of the consequences, then there are better paths than others. 

As well, this is also a story appearing Now - that never happened. This is another form of surrender.

[Beginner Mind]

@Serotoninluv I think you mean "Neo".  "Nemo" is a fish.

I totally respect your path.  You and Leo both are deeply interested in discovering truth and that's totally cool.  But for me the spiritual search is simply about uncovering the innate happiness of our true nature. 

[How to be wise]

@Leo Gura can you speak to some higher entities and ask them how to practically raise your baseline consciousness? Perhaps they might share some super powerful practices. I read in a channeling book that you can find expert entities in all sorts of fields. Perhaps they have wisdom that we humans don’t know yet about how to permanently increase baseline consciousness.

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv I think you mean "Neo".  "Nemo" is a fish.

I totally respect your path.  You and Leo both are deeply interested in discovering truth and that's totally cool.  But for me the spiritual search is simply about uncovering the innate happiness of our true nature. 

Haha yes. There is a big difference between Neo and Nemo.

I wish everyone that seeks happiness the best. 

[Javfly33]

27 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What I'm pointing at is prior to knowing whether or not it would make one miserable or happy.

Imagine standing at a closed door and there is truth on the other side of the door. Yet you don't know if what is on the other side of the door will make you happy, peaceful, terrified or agonized. The question is whether one opens the door prior to knowing what it is. At the deeper levels, I don't get to know or decide. It is unconditional surrender and death of me. Not a surrender of "ok, I will surrender if I know it will bring me happiness and if it doesn't I can stop it when I want to", Rather, it is an unconditional surrender of all control. This may mean experiencing indescribable happiness or indescribable agony. It may mean the human experience is temporary or permanent. And yes, I've crossed that door into both realms because the desire for truth was stronger than my personal welfare. Yet I don't recommend it to others unless they are serious seekers of truth and have a lot of experience. Which is pretty much nobody. Nearly every seeker I see is not willing to die for truth. They want the feel good stuff. Which is fine. That is part of the human experience and paths other than mine are fine. Yet ime, the deeper levels can get extremely radical and intense - involving both unimaginable happiness, peace and connection as well as unimaginable terror and agony. When my mind and body ventures to those depths, there is complete surrender and I don't know what is on the other side of the door. Similar to Neo - he didn't know what would happen after he took that pill. Yet his desire for truth was stronger than his desire for personal well being. 

 

@Serotoninluv I will definetely try to remember that attitude in my future psychedelic trips bro That was inspiring  :holdinghands

[Forestluv]

@Javfly33 It boils down to surrender. 

[Crystalous]

On 23/3/2020 at 10:37 AM, electroBeam said:

I've spoken to a dozen or so ayurvedic, yogic an qigong/reiki teachers at this point about psychedelic use.

For whatever reason, they are of the opinion that long term use reduces energy resources, and makes you tamasic.

This is by people who have used psychedelics before.

What are the real dangers of psychedelics? What do you need to watch out for? Whats proper technique for using psychedelics for god realization. 

 

Based on inference, seems like you have to put in a practice like kriya, to build up energy and ensure it doesnt get depleted.

Also seems like you need to watch taking too much. Even if youre a super hero who can handle heaps of shrooms, sounds like it can cause obstruction, damage or disruptions to energy pathways if your dose is too high. Maybe taking lots after small intervals of time should be avoided, and this stuff should be taken only every month and no more?

What spiritual practices need to be in place to ensure psychedelics dont fuck you up long term? Kriya yoga?

I have had this problem with extreme lsd psychedelic trips every week.The problem is not that you lose your energy, the problem is the black energy you gain which is somehow lost of light(energy).Some people starve for it and surely it has its power.The dangers of psychedelics are to lose your direction in life or to completely loose your mind or your body.Psychedelics have to be taken under consideration of the risks.This amazing abyssial and chaotic darkness lasted for almost two years with the first 6 months being extremely intense.It was like i had lost my soul.I gained a lot of knowledge through all these and it was a part of healing but not everyone can handle situations like these.My advice would be to make 2-3 trips per year or you can join the psychonauts and become either insane or a shaman(white or black).Though the spiritual progress in my opinion should not be based on the psychedelics, true light and power comes after you battle the self with enough power to discover his unreal nature

Edited March 25, 2020 by Crystalous

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

 

@Leo Gura I respect your quest for truth (many of the claims you make are interesting), but as I said, anything beyond fulfillment is superfluous.  I'm jealous of any cat that can sit and be totally fulfilled.

Fulfillment don't even register as important once you're fully conscious that you're God.

4 hours ago, billiesimon said:

I have found some small insights with active inquiry and active focus, but I have problems understanding the "do nothing".

Does the "do nothing" approach bring up insights/shifts in awareness?

It can, but the whole point of do-nothing is that's supposed to be totally non-goal-oriented. You need to fully surrender and drop all expectation or desire for a result or a insight. If you're trying to gain an insight, you're not doing nothing, you're doing something.

Do-nothing guarantees you no insight. But of course insights can arise spontaneously. You just have to accept that you won't get any for a while.

With do-nothing you just sit, relax, and surrender all desire to manipulate your experience. And just be present. The key is surrender all tendencies to control your experience. And enjoy it. Relax! Drop all spiritual chasing or seeking. Drop the goal to become enlightened. At least during your sit. Trust that enlightenment will come to you.

3 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@Leo Gura can you speak to some higher entities and ask them how to practically raise your baseline consciousness? Perhaps they might share some super powerful practices. I read in a channeling book that you can find expert entities in all sorts of fields. Perhaps they have wisdom that we humans don’t know yet about how to permanently increase baseline consciousness.

There is no higher entity than me. So to me channeling entities seems silly.

If you want wisdom and advice, connect to God Consciousness and ask away. But be clear, you are talking to yourself. It can be very valuable. I channel insights from God frequently. I don't need some alien middle-man between me and God.

[electroBeam]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just sit and do nothing or concentrate on awareness itself.

Total surrender to the present moment is very effective for me.

You said previously you're not that into forcing your mind to do things because its not Loving.

How can you concentrate without forcing your mind? If you don't force, it will not concentrate?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

You said previously you're not that into forcing your mind to do things because its not Loving.

How can you concentrate without forcing your mind? If you don't force, it will not concentrate?

That's a tricky situation.

If you're doing concentration practices, yes, those are forceful (at least in the beginning until you train it up a lot).

But do-nothing is not forceful. Do-nothing is not concentration. Concentration is very much doing something.

You could try doing both at different parts of the day. Have one forceful practice and one unforced one. See which works better for you.

[electroBeam]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a tricky situation.

If you're doing concentration practices, yes, those are forceful (at least in the beginning until you train it up a lot).

But do-nothing is not forceful. Do-nothing is not concentration.

I must have misunderstood, I thought you said concentration was a technique you use. If it is, how do you do it unforcefully?

Do you do do nothing meditation instead? Is that what the effective technique was?

 

I agree concentration is limited, because the ego must concentrate, and the ego's wants do not align with insight and mysticism. But do nothing is extremely, very very tricky, because its almost impossible to truly do nothing.

Edited March 25, 2020 by electroBeam

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I must have misunderstood, I thought you said concentration was a technique you use. If it is, how do you do it unforcefully?

I mostly practice do-nothing, unforcefully.

But I'm also experimenting with improving my concentration, which I do very forcefully.

I like to experiment with different things a lot. So I don't have one simple practice like many people.