Heart Awakening?

[Gnosis]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's far more radical than that.

Isn't it Always. 

[fridjonk]

REALIZATION OF FALSE SELF IS NOT FULL AWAKENING! 

This needs to be addressed. 

[VeganAwake]

7 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

REALIZATION OF FALSE SELF IS NOT FULL AWAKENING! 

This needs to be addressed. 

It's not as easy as intellectually understanding the false self is an illusion..

The seeking energy has to actually dissolve..

If that doesn't happen first it doesn't matter what recognition/belief takes place you will continue to seek or run on the hamster wheel for the rest of your life because you are quite literally still identified as the seeking energy/separate self.

"Three things that can't be hidden for long the Sun the Moon and Truth"

 

 

[student]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even the idea that you've imagined the past before is wrong, because that assumes a past! You've never imagined the past before. You are imagining right now for the first time that you've imagined the past in the past many times before, thereby creating "memory".

Then what is that which is changing? For example, let's say that i cut my finger and now i have a wound. My body is different from a moment ago (which is memory --> imagination). I get it. But what is this which still can change? Can you explain this? There are things that i have in the present which i didn't have in the past. My body ages in time. Time doesn't exist. Only the present. But there is still change happening and then physical death some day. So do i also imagine aging (for example), "material" changes?

Edited March 22, 2020 by student

[fridjonk]

@VeganAwake That's all still talking about the realization of the false self. Experiencing one-ness in god state consciousness is totally different. Even though it's all the same thing. 

But maybe I'm wrong, I've got more awakenings to be had. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by fridjonk

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura What's your plan for permanent or prolonged embodiment of god consciousnesses?

Do you think it's possible without psychs?

When I had the realization my first instinct was how the fuck do people do this without psychedelics?

[Gnosis]

@student I'll reply in the place of Leo and save him some breath,

18 minutes ago, Gnosis said:

It's far more radical than that.

There, you have your answer. 

 

But just to "stoop down to your level" (borrowing a phrase from Leo ), the logic you're using there is also flawed.

If you truly understand that memory is identical with imagination, then by definition, "this which can still change" does not exist.

No explanation is necessary because even the premise of your question is logically inconsistent.

 

I'll "stoop down" even lower and address how you can understand what I just said.

The seeming "this which can still change" is just a figment and result of your view still being established in the paradigm of materialism.

Change your paradigm and you'll immediately see that your question in the first place is confused and logically unsound.

[VeganAwake]

24 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@VeganAwake That's all still talking about the realization of the false self. Experiencing one-ness in god state consciousness is totally different. Even though it's all the same thing. 

But maybe I'm wrong, I've got more awakenings to be had. 

That's right but when it's recognized there are no separate individuals it's simultaneously recognized all is One AKA non-dual awareness/ Buddha nature. 

It's recognized the separate individual experiencing the absolute was never the case... it's always been the absolute experiencing itself as itself.

Even Oneness or the absolute is realized to be illusion.. Ramana Maharshi spoke of this... emptiness within emptiness.

I really don't usually discuss all the recognitions that follow the no self realization because it sounds like a complex story when it's really quite basic when it occurs.

 

 

 

 

[Gnosis]

@VeganAwake Hah! I think you broke the "highly stubborn and fixated on one perspective guy" act there. 

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, student said:

Then what is that which is changing? For example, let's say that i cut my finger and now i have a wound. My body is different from a moment ago (which is memory --> imagination). I get it. But what is this which still can change? Can you explain this? There are things that i have in the present which i didn't have in the past. My body ages in time. Time doesn't exist. Only the present. But there is still change happening and then physical death some day. So do i also imagine aging (for example), "material" changes?

That's easy. What's changing is Consciousness. Consciousness is that which imagines the present into its current shape.

Consciousness is like a gaseous cloud that has infinite shape-shifting ability. This shape-shifting "cloud" is the very substance of everything. Yet it has no inherent substance of its own. It is literally pure imagination made manifest as brick walls, cars, trees, bodies, etc.

Imagine a cloud in the sky which can change its shape to become a brick wall, a car, a tree, a body, a memory of your parents, etc. That's what the room you're current sitting in is. It's just hard for you to notice it because the room feels very concrete and rock solid. The cloud is like frozen for you right now. So you can't see it's cloud-like fluid nature. Because it is a fluid acting as a solid. The solidity is just an act which can easily be dissolved with psychedelics or some other practices.

39 minutes ago, Dand said:

Language is easy to misinterpret but just to clarify, at the moment of full God-realization, you are saying there is simultaneously no difference and infinite differences right?

Since there is always only the present moment, in this moment you can either be in a state of God consciousness or not. If you are in a state of God consciousness, that's it. It doesn't matter how long it lasts. It could last 1 minute or a lifetime. The difference isn't important from the absolute POV -- since in fact all states are Absolute. But if you fall out of God consciousness back into a state of sleep and delusion, it will matter to you in the relative human sense in that you will have a memory of how good God consciousness feels and you will want to return to it but may not be able to, thus creating suffering.

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Is there even such thing as full God-realization? Yes and no and neither LOL

That's a tricky question to answer. Yes, there is, but then also there are even fuller ones.

I assume at some point one becomes so conscious Earthly material reality would just disappear forever (AKA physical death). I can only speak to God realization while still remaining within Earthly reality because that's where I wish to remain for now and I could not communicate with you otherwise.

27 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@Leo Gura What's your plan for permanent or prolonged embodiment of god consciousnesses?

Do you think it's possible without psychs?

When I had the realization my first instinct was how the fuck do people do this without psychedelics?

That's also a tricky question to answer. I don't have a full solution to that yet. Still working on it.

But the assumption that psyches don't create permanent changes is false. Maybe you can't fully live from that peak, but they still create changes in you which will last for a lifetime. It's just a question of how much change are you looking for? If you want to be in peak God consciousness 24/7, I'm not sure yet if that's possible. Seems doubtful. Enlightened masters are not always peaking.

But you should be able to inch closer and closer.

[Javfly33]

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

It's far more radical than that. Since all difference is absolutely relative, there is no difference whatsoever between start and end, therefore it never started. You are imagining right now that it started at some point, and thereby you create the illusion of it having started. This illusion of a start is indistinguishable from reality, so it seems as though it started. But it never did. Everything always starts and ends right now! Your parents start and end right now! They were never real! They didn't give birth to you. You are concocting that story on the fly RIGHT NOW for the first time! This is its start and its end.

It's absolutely crucial to become conscious that there is no difference between start and end within consciousness. Oneness cannot have a beginning or an end.

There was never just void. That void is something you imagine existed in the past to explain the present. But past is something you're imagining right now for the very first time! Even the idea that you've imagined the past before is wrong, because that assumes a past! You've never imagined the past before. You are imagining right now for the first time that you've imagined the past in the past many times before, thereby creating "memory". Memory is nothing but imagination in the present. Everything you think you remember is actually you imagining for the first time in the present without realizing that you're doing so. Ta-da!

It sure is a mindfuck, eh?

 

If I got this correctly, this would mean that I am creating reality each second and imagining (or creating the hallucination) that reality has existed in the past.

Well, I honestly can't imagine how you haven't gone totally mad by now hehe. Because I imagine experiencing this in direct experience and realizing is actually true could break most of the minds for good. 

And of course, right now I'm just talking to myself and creating a Leo and actualized.org this very second. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Leo Gura Agreed about the psychs, I will never be the same since taking them, and thank god for that lol.

Good luck with integration and embodiment.

[Waken]

--------------- @Leo Gura    quote function gives me lot of blanc spaces, so I do it like this
It's far more radical than that. Since all difference is absolutely relative, there is no difference whatsoever between start and end, therefore it never started. You are imagining right now that it started at some point, and thereby you create the illusion of it having started. This illusion of a start is indistinguishable from reality, so it seems as though it started. But it never did. Everything always starts and ends right now! Your parents start and end right now! They were never real! They didn't give birth to you. You are concocting that story on the fly RIGHT NOW for the first time! This is its start and its end.

It's absolutely crucial to become conscious that there is no difference between start and end within consciousness. Oneness cannot have a beginning or an end.

There was never just void. That void is something you imagine existed in the past to explain the present. But past is something you're imagining right now for the very first time! Even the idea that you've imagined the past before is wrong, because that assumes a past! You've never imagined the past before. You are imagining right now for the first time that you've imagined the past in the past many times before, thereby creating "memory". Memory is nothing but imagination in the present. Everything you think you remember is actually you imagining for the first time in the present without realizing that you're doing so. Ta-da!
---------------

I don't quite get some things you (are trying to) say here, can you be more clear? I'd like to grok it.
A model that I heard, and I can wrap my mind around is that you're not moving through time, but shifting through many static images per second, thereby creating a sense or illusion of continuity. Okay the whole reality, the whole shebang is here right now, just shifting through frames, okay fine, not something new here for me. 

"Your parents start and end right now!", if you mean here their appearance (or appearances as they only exist as static pictures) in/as 'my' experience, yes alright.

"You are imagining right now for the first time that you've imagined the past in the past many times before, thereby creating "memory"." You say that you imagine for the first time that there was a past. What are you trying to say here, how is a first time possible if there is no time? Maybe you just mean that the whole shebang is here right now, and so an experience of thought -that gets labeled memory- isn't referring to something that happened before. That memory experience is only a snapshot/experience and doesn't exist before or after the snapshot/experience "to which the memory refers". Is that what you mean?

Edited March 22, 2020 by Waken

[Synchronicity]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I assume at some point one becomes so conscious Earthly material reality would just disappear forever (AKA physical death). 

Yeah, you can overlap the two also. That’s where the experience of being each of the drops as well as the whole ocean is useful 

[Thewritersunion]

I would assume you could become a psychedelic. (through increasing Consciousness) 

[Synchronicity]

Just now, Thewritersunion said:

I would assume you could become a psychedelic. (through increasing Consciousness) 

^^correct

Edited March 22, 2020 by Synchronicity

[Thewritersunion]

@Synchronicity Though it does depend on the quantity on the drug, the personal advancement of the individual who is taking the drugs, and how deep and long it goes.  

[Leo Gura]

40 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

If I got this correctly, this would mean that I am creating reality each second and imagining (or creating the hallucination) that reality has existed in the past.

Yup!

Although seconds are also imaginary. You aren't really "creating" it. You've always been it, Eternally! This moment has existed forever.

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Well, I honestly can't imagine how you haven't gone totally mad by now hehe. Because I imagine experiencing this in direct experience and realizing is actually true could break most of the minds for good. 

Yes, it's fucking insane. I have had moments of awakening so profound I literally had to go on the toilet and shit because I could not hold myself together. I've had moments where my entire body twisted and vibrated and seemed to flip inside out from the realization that I am God. If you saw a video of it, I would appear completely insane.

But at the same time, I could not be more clear about what reality is.

God is a flawless madman.

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And of course, right now I'm just talking to myself and creating a Leo and actualized.org this very second. 

Yup! You're it, you clever devil you

34 minutes ago, Waken said:

I don't quite get some things you (are trying to) say here, can you be more clear? I'd like to grok it.

A model that I heard, and I can wrap my mind around is that you're not moving through time, but shifting through many static images per second, thereby creating a sense or illusion of continuity. Okay the whole reality, the whole shebang is here right now, just shifting through frames, okay fine, not something new here for me. 

Yes, that's somewhat the right idea. In fact, imagine there is only ever 1 frame in existence.

Imagine that reality is 1 fluid frame. That's it. The end. This one fluid frame can change its shape without ever creating a second frame.

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"Your parents start and end right now!", if you mean here their appearance (or appearances as they only exist as static pictures) in/as 'my' experience, yes alright.

"You are imagining right now for the first time that you've imagined the past in the past many times before, thereby creating "memory"." You say that you imagine for the first time that there was a past. What are you trying to say here, how is a first time possible if there is no time? Maybe you just mean that the whole shebang is here right now, and so an experience of thought -that gets labeled memory- isn't referring to something that happened before. That memory experience is only a snapshot/experience and doesn't exist before or after the snapshot/experience "to which the memory refers". Is that what you mean?

Yes, that's sorta what I mean. If there is no time, that means everything is Eternal. It has existed forever. So this one fluid frame exists eternally, with no beginning or end. The beginnings and ends of the frame -- questions like where did it come from? What caused it to be this way? etc. -- are imagined. So if you ask, "Where did the current frame come from?" the mind will invent some causal explanation like, "Well, at one point I came out of my Mom's vagina and then I started using my eyes to see the world." << This is imagined and invented in the present to create an illusion of reality.

It's just like how Hollywood invents backstory for its characters. The audience might wonder, "But where did Batman come from?" at which point some writer in Hollywood will just imagine a backstory to make Batman seen more real, like "Batman was born to some rich parents in Gotham city 40 years ago." And the audience is gullible enough to just buy it without ever realizing it's just pure fiction. Batman didn't come from rich parents. Batman was invented by some Hollywood business people to make them money! That's where Batman really came from.

Could you imagine if you were watching a Batman movie and someone asked Batman about his origins and Batman replied, "Well, you see, the CEO of Warner Brothers wanted to buy a new yacht so he could bang his mistress without his wife finding out about it, so he greenlit this shitty movie. So here I am." You'd shit your pants. That's not what you wanted to here. It's too true!

[VeganAwake]

@Gnosis ?

Yes when a direct experience of awakening occurs it's not a debatable topic...

Its no one abiding in Non-dual awareness stating opinions about everything and nothing to no one...

I can absolutely see how it would resemble a stubborn opinionated know-it-all guy. ?

[Thewritersunion]

@Leo Gura What happened during your first Heart Awakening?