I keep dying but I don't want to

[Carl-Richard]

I've been obsessed with enlightenment for quite a while now, but I've come to realize more and more that I'm actually not ready for it. The problem is though, the more I give up my interest in it, the more it keeps seeping into my experience, even when I've stopped meditating for 10 days. Are anybody else having the same problem?

This is a youtube comment I made about 10 days ago on HealthyGamerGG's video "What Even is Meditation?":

"Be careful with meditation. I've been meditating for 3 years everyday, and just now lately I've had to stop, because I'll be sitting in a lecture just listening to what is being said, and out of nowhere, it feels like time stops, I'm losing control of my actions and that I'm dying and never coming back. This has happened many times during meditation, and despite how beautiful and blissful it is, I always revolt in fear, because I'm not ready to leave my life behind, because that is what it feels like. But now it's happening with eyes open and totally outside my control, and the only thing that stops it from going completely off the rails is manually tensing up and throwing a little silent tantrum. Even when this makes me feel like I do regain a little sense of control, it's an illusion which is very easy to see through, and before you know it, you will keep sinking deeper into the deafening silence until you're trembling in sheer terror. I know, I know: this is what the people who are chasing enlightenment (which I used to do) are just dreaming about being able to experience, but don't be fooled: the price for liberation is your life. Transcending the mind is nothing short of losing your mind. But yeah, if you are able to let go, it will be the most worthwhile thing you can do in life. I hope I will reach that point at some point, but right now, I don't have the courage or trust to do it."

I feel that the reason I don't feel like letting go is because I'm young and not developed as a person. It's primarily that I'm not economically independent yet and socially underdeveloped. I haven't built up trust or faith in myself, and I feel a desire to control, to survive. There are a few things I feel I want to fix in my life before giving it up, and yes, I know this is just a game I'm playing with myself, and I will just keep going to the next thing ("I just have to fix this first"), again and again and again, untill I just decide to stop (granted that you can't actively "choose" to stop, you know all that non-dual jazz...).

I just wanted to hear if I'm not alone about this. Lately it's been getting harder to keep this "dying process" from happening, and I don't know if anybody has got any tips for me. Thanks

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I've been obsessed with enlightenment for quite a while now, but I've come to realize more and more that I'm actually not ready for it. The problem is though, the more I give up my interest in it, the more it keeps seeping into my experience, even when I've stopped meditating for 10 days. 

I love it ❤

You signaled the universe that this is what you wanted. It is responding. It's apparently too late to change your mind. Relax into it.

 

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Anna1 said:

I love it ❤

You signaled the universe that this is what you wanted. It is responding. It's apparently too late to change your mind. Relax into it.

 

Fuck

[Ananta]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Fuck

Well, if you really, really don't want it now.....just think and do every egoic, worldly thing possible in opposition and perhaps you can get your head out of the tigers mouth....but, do you really want to?

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Anna1 said:

Well, if you really, really don't want it now.....just think and do every heroic, worldly thing possible in opposition and perhaps you can get your head out of the tigers mouth....but, do you really want to?

I know that fighting it feels bad, but when I relax and let it run for too long, it also feels bad (feels like I'm dying). I'm basically stuck in a limbo, which I know very well is self-created, which is also why I feel utterly stupid for it. I feel like a coward that knows better, which makes me a dumb coward.

[DreamScape]

Yeah I feel ya, 18 (just turned) and kundalini has awakened about a year or so ago. We're in the same boat. 

Like today, I was walking around at work and it literally felt like no one was in the body. Although, I wasn't scared, I felt very peaceful and have felt recently moments where I have felt absolutely no fear, there are times when I'm dying in fear and I distract myself for hours from myself because I'm deeply scared of my own mind. I can't even get myself out of it, like you, because awareness eats it up.

Although I don't like it, as @Anna1 hinted at, this is still something that I'm not going to stop (I couldn't really stop at this time) because I'm enjoying the non-ego life more & I can feel this deeply, down to my soul, that this is what's meant for me. It may be different for you, just know I feel you my man. 

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

(feels like I'm dying). I'm basically stuck in a limbo,

Do you see how that's just a story?

39 minutes ago, DreamScape said:

18 (just turned)

Soooo young ❤

[Carl-Richard]

29 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Do you see how that's just a story?

Yes, and when I remember that I'm creating it, and that I'm essentially the creator of everything I experience, the experience keeps deepening and I have to physically contort myself and find a distraction for it to stop. It's really stupid.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, DreamScape said:

Yeah I feel ya, 18 (just turned) and kundalini has awakened about a year or so ago. We're in the same boat. 

Like today, I was walking around at work and it literally felt like no one was in the body. Although, I wasn't scared, I felt very peaceful and have felt recently moments where I have felt absolutely no fear, there are times when I'm dying in fear and I distract myself for hours from myself because I'm deeply scared of my own mind. I can't even get myself out of it, like you, because awareness eats it up.

Although I don't like it, as @Anna1 hinted at, this is still something that I'm not going to stop (I couldn't really stop at this time) because I'm enjoying the non-ego life more & I can feel this deeply, down to my soul, that this is what's meant for me. It may be different for you, just know I feel you my man. 

I'm 22, and I haven't had what I would characterize as a kundalini awakening, but I've had many "awakenings" where I again felt like I was dying, losing control, merging with God etc., and I do feel like I have what you can call energetic stuff happening throughout the day. The main thing is a subtle form of stiffness accompanied by small crackling noises every 5-ish seconds in the upper part of my spine, and if I sit in a comfortable upright position for prolonged periods of time, I interpret the crackling noises to be a type of unwinding of tension that goes on in my entire body. After a while, my body becomes very still, and the tension is concentrated in my forehead. The tension will keep building untill it sort of dissolves, and by then my mind is very quiet, and I'm heading straight down the path of feeling like I'm gonna die. I normally used to love when this kind of stuff would happen, but now it's happening on a totally different level than before, and it's scary. I know all that nonduality stuff: that fear is an illusion created by the ego, I'm the one creating the fear etc., but I just can't for the hell of me let go

Edited March 21, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[DreamScape]

@Anna1  

@Carl-Richard yeah, I feel that. I'm not sure what that problem is, because I've never experienced that the way you describe but I do have energetic sensations that go through basically my whole body at my point. So I relate to you there. 

For me, its bittersweet. I love it but I hate it when that happens. the 'dying', losing control, merging with god, because I always feel more whole and at peace and even more myself after, and I find it so interesting! I do still have attachment to my life though, pretty strong, especially because it's hard to determine where I'm going to go and how everything is going to pan out. 

Maybe you're deeper down it than me. and also it's okay to be scared, i'd say rightfully so, because it's scary as hell! I think that's part of the beauty of it all though. I really love this all, at least in this moment, not gonna lie. 

As leo said: "It's like you are homeless and have a paper cup (your current situation), and you're so scared to let go of the cup. But if you let go of the paper cup, you get the whole universe in return."

probably didn't get all the words right btw. haha. 

Beauty

 

[traveler]

18 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

that fear is an illusion created by the ego, I'm the one creating the fear etc., but I just can't for the hell of me let go

It's all fun and games until you actually experience what death means. You find out that you're literally all alone, there's no hope for help because there is nobody to help you, everything you grasp on to is you. "I've" been there many times. It can get real scary I feel ya. There comes an invitation or an opportunity in these moments though, it seems. Your egoic patterns and limiting beliefs are often much more clear in these states. You can see the games being unconsciously played much more clearly and how you limit yourself; create your own suffering. One thing that also gets real clear, (what the whole universe is literally screaming at you) is that this is it. Whatever is, is what is. The whole story of who you are as a separate individual covers this over and creates the experience that there is a problem here. That this isn't it. Why isn't this it? Because it doesn't feel like this is it. What's happening now is not what is supposed to happen...
The individual always looks for a better experience a more "whole" experience, which in itself creates the experience that this isn't whole and complete already. 
I sincerely hope that you find the peace that you are looking for, my friend <3

[Ananta]

15 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

I know that fighting it feels bad, but when I relax and let it run for too long, it also feels bad (feels like I'm dying). I'm basically stuck in a limbo, which I know very well is self-created, which is also why I feel utterly stupid for it. I feel like a coward that knows better, which makes me a dumb coward.

You are very young , so if this isn't for you then turn away and don't look back. Otherwise, plunge forward.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, traveler said:

It's all fun and games until you actually experience what death means. You find out that you're literally all alone, there's no hope for help because there is nobody to help you, everything you grasp on to is you. "I've" been there many times. It can get real scary I feel ya. There comes an invitation or an opportunity in these moments though, it seems. Your egoic patterns and limiting beliefs are often much more clear in these states. You can see the games being unconsciously played much more clearly and how you limit yourself; create your own suffering. One thing that also gets real clear, (what the whole universe is literally screaming at you) is that this is it. Whatever is, is what is. The whole story of who you are as a separate individual covers this over and creates the experience that there is a problem here. That this isn't it. Why isn't this it? Because it doesn't feel like this is it. What's happening now is not what is supposed to happen...
The individual always looks for a better experience a more "whole" experience, which in itself creates the experience that this isn't whole and complete already. 
I sincerely hope that you find the peace that you are looking for, my friend <3

I know that "this is it", but I have this stupid belief that I gotta fix myself and grow up as a person first. Untill then, it's like I feel like I don't deserve it, that I'm not good enough for it, yet at the same time it's literally invading my life. So yeah it's gonna be interesting to see how this pans out. I have a suspicion that it will end with me essentially being forced down in a chokehold by it until the pain of consciously resisting it is so unbearable that I just let go. That's the idea I get from people like Jan Essman when he is talking about the kundalini process (paraphrasing): "once the kundalini process has begun, sooner or later you'll have no choice but to surrender to it". Granted, I don't have kundalini, but that particular idea seems to apply to this recent development in my life.

[Carl-Richard]

39 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

You are very young , so if this isn't for you then turn away and don't look back. Otherwise, plunge forward my. friend ...what it waiting for you?

That's the problem isn't it? I'm essentially turning away, dropping the meditation habit, but it keeps jumping up from behind. Meditation just happens spontaneously. It's like a part of me now. I also keep saying I know the solution to this (I'm actively avoiding the solution), so the reason I wrote all this is just to see if I'm not alone with having this type of dysfunction. I don't even know if I need advice. I just need to grow imo.

[traveler]

50 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I know that "this is it", but I have this stupid belief that I gotta fix myself and grow up as a person first.

That's a belief, like you said. The belief is saying that this isn't it. It's saying you have to reach some point before you can reach the goal of "this is it." You're still looking for a better experience.

Untill then, it's like I feel like I don't deserve it, that I'm not good enough for it, yet at the same time it's literally invading my life.

You still have an idea of what enlightenment is. What this is. It's not an object. It doesn't exist like you think it does. It's already complete. 

So yeah it's gonna be interesting to see how this pans out. I have a suspicion that it will end with me essentially being forced down in a chokehold by it until the pain of consciously resisting it is so unbearable that I just let go. That's the idea I get from people like Jan Essman when he is talking about the kundalini process (paraphrasing): "once the kundalini process has begun, sooner or later you'll have no choice but to surrender to it". Granted, I don't have kundalini, but that particular idea seems to apply to this recent development in my life.

It can feel this way. I felt this way too, for a long time. It feels like you're so close but it's just out of reach. The feeling is so convincing that you are certain that one day you will break through the veil and surrender fully. You have had glimpses of extraordinary states, you've seen something so far from the normal human consciousness. Then you relate that to enlightenment. You think there comes a day where you will finally break through and experience these states permanently and leave everything behind. All of that is stories and distractions. These higher states of consciousness comes with a price, it seems. Seeking really amps up after experiences like these, and the ideas of what is supposed to BE are tenfold; suffering increases. This is the simplest message of all messages, that is why you can't "get" it. It is already, there is no one to get it. 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by traveler

[Carl-Richard]

Just a little update: I'm finally able to sit reasonably relaxed for longer periods of time without second guessing if I'm dying or not. That took a month and a half of quitting meditation, pretending to exist in a physical world and just doing what normal people do.