So Who Has Reached Enlightenment?

[Falk]

12 hours ago, Mal said:

@Falk There's no such thing as the now, because now would imply there is a past and future, wouldn't it?

What i refered to as "Now" is not a "thing", so there is no conflict and no implied meanings of past/future.

In fact our fantasies of past or future can ONLY be created in the "now", so they are itself part of "now" there is "nothing" that is not now  

[Mal]

@Falk  If that's the way you want to play it that's OK. 

You're subtely implying that there is something creating fantasies of past and future.  There isn't anything doing anything.  There is just "this"

Have you been reading the power of now or some related nonsense?

[Falk]

48 minutes ago, Mal said:

@Falk  If that's the way you want to play it that's OK. 

You're subtely implying that there is something creating fantasies of past and future.  There isn't anything doing anything.  There is just "this"

Have you been reading the power of now or some related nonsense?

Your opinion is that "such and such book" is nonsense ok... no,i havent read it but yes,i know eckart tolle from youtube videos and he seems to be a nice/calm  person with an alternative view  that is fine to me...

Also your opinion is that there is just "this" ...ok i get it, so if you were to replace the word "this" with the word "now" then you would have the same message as eckart tolle  ... 

it is all semantics in the end

[Mal]

10 hours ago, Natasha said:

Yes, but communication is a thing of duality and is done by the means of duality (language, labels, etc). Otherwise, there would be no concepts, no words, no discussion, no forum   

  There is language in non duality.  There is just no "I".

I want a sandwich is actually :want a sandwich I.

Language is fine. It's the I thinking it is in possession of language that's the problem. 

 

[Mal]

14 minutes ago, Falk said:

Your opinion is that "such and such book" is nonsense ok... no,i havent read it but yes,i know eckart tolle from youtube videos and he seems to be a nice/calm  person with an alternative view  that is fine to me...

Also your opinion is that there is just "this" ...ok i get it, so if you were to replace the word "this" with the word "now" then you would have the same message as eckart tolle  ... 

it is all semantics in the end

It's not semantics. 

There is no now. Now implies time. Here implies space. 

In your dream there is a here and now. 

I'm not here to have a semantics talk, I'm here to point out that "this" is beyond space and time. 

[Falk]

Why is there no "I" ?

What seems to be the problem with "I" , why is everyone in the "spiritual community" (sorry if you don´t see yourself as part of it) thinking that "I" = evil  

What if "I" exists... and it is fine , just like all other conceptions are fine, just don´t make them exclusive!!!... Yes "I" exist , but "I" is not the ONLY that exists, it is just part of a bigger field , but that does not mean that "I" does not exist at all...

I want a sandwich and want a sandwich I ... Funny that you mention this ...i just finished a book called "the atoms of language by mark baker (student of noam chomsky who might be more known) and this is a part of our grammar , the order in which we place our nouns, objects, verbs etc ... but it does not change anything fundamental!! ...

I want a sandwich is actually :want a sandwich I.  ... i think this kinda resembles the japanese order of words if i remember correctly.

[Falk]

19 minutes ago, Mal said:

It's not semantics. 

There is no now. Now implies time. Here implies space. 

In your dream there is a here and now. 

I'm not here to have a semantics talk, I'm here to point out that "this" is beyond space and time. 

This is exactly the meaning of semantics ...the content of the implicit meaning! man .... please 

For you "now" implies time and space ...

you say "there is no now" as if it was a fact .... this is not acceptable if you wanna have a civilized discussion, dont you see this ...it is just not how it works!

This is a discussion an alcoholic father has with his 5y.o. son ... THERE IS NO NOW!! and now shut up and bring daddy a beer...  

Edited June 25, 2016 by Falk

[charlie2dogs]

4 minutes ago, Falk said:

Why is there no "I" ?

What seems to be the problem with "I" , why is everyone in the "spiritual community" (sorry if you don´t see yourself as part of it) thinking that "I" = evil  

What if "I" exists... and it is fine , just like all other conceptions are fine, just don´t make them exclusive!!!... Yes "I" exist , but "I" is not the ONLY that exists, it is just part of a bigger field , but that does not mean that "I" does not exist at all...

I want a sandwich and want a sandwich I ... Funny that you mention this ...i just finished a book called "the atoms of language by mark baker (student of noam chomsky who might be more known) and this is a part of our grammar , the order in which we place our nouns, objects, verbs etc ... but it does not change anything fundamental!! ...

I want a sandwich is actually :want a sandwich I.  ... i think this kinda resembles the japanese order of words if i remember correctly.

the human identity thinks it is the i, it is the it, the i is what is giving the body life, and 99.999999 % of human identitys are not, cannot experience that

[charlie2dogs]

the 99.999999 % are too busy speculating about and assuming what enlightenment is from false belief systems, doctrines, false teachings, and newageism, rather than becoming enlightened.   programing, false belief systems, warped perceptions of everything, is keeping the human identity trapped. until you understand that belief is nothing more than an assumption of knowledge and is never real, you aren't going any place other than the human identity.  all belief will be dropped before you become enlightened.

[Mal]

@Falk The "I" exists, but when it is strong there is a dream state which is a distorted and warped version of life. 

When the "I" is dropped there is just life as it is. 

No need to talk about here and now, these things take one away from the truth

[charlie2dogs]

16 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

the human identity thinks it is the i, it is the it, the i is what is giving the body life, and 99.999999 % of human identitys are not, cannot experience that

one other question i ask, what is your justification for even existing,   this question is to be answered without beliefs, without religions, without the words, books, and videos of other people.

[Mal]

1 hour ago, Falk said:

you say "there is no now" as if it was a fact .... this is not acceptable if you wanna have a civilized discussion, dont you see this ...it is just not how it works!

This is attachment to the nonsense of the human identity who has created all these debate rules so it can discuss in civil ways it's false reality with another false reality rather than just living life and being life itself. 

It's clear to me that you are all about philosophising and not really interested in seeing your own blind spots.

It's not your fault, it's just you know no better unti you see that it's all bullshit when the identity collapses.

[Mal]

4 hours ago, Falk said:

I want a sandwich is actually :want a sandwich I.  ... i think this kinda resembles the japanese order of words if i remember correctly.

I could riff off this all day.  

You're into meditation right?  How about Buddhist walking meditation?  Try it.  If one does it properly, there is the realization that whatever happened "I" decided it was the last thing in the stream of events.  The "I" is controlled by the bodymind.

Most people are identified with the "I" that thinks it is in charge of the body mind.

This is why the "I" is a problem.

4 hours ago, Falk said:

What seems to be the problem with "I" , why is everyone in the "spiritual community" (sorry if you don´t see yourself as part of it) thinking that "I" = evil  

The spiritual community is a group of mis-informed people attempting to create "high consciounsess" values based on their religious upbringing.  Spirituality is nothing more than "what is happening".

The benefits of "no-self" have been turned into another dogma, where people mistake the benefits as the goal, instead of focusing on the original teaching.  So we have created a big moralistic monster in the process.

As charlie says: New Ageism.

We need to be careful who we listen to, because most of the teachers out there are pretenders who know nothing of what this original teaching is.

The "I" is not evil, it can manifest as suffering, but in itself the "I" is nothing - a subtle effort.  Residing in the "I" CREATES delusion.  we don't even have to remove the "I", that's the "I" trying to remove itself.  The is nothing to be done. 

[Falk]

 

5 hours ago, Mal said:

It's clear to me that you are all about philosophising and not really interested in seeing your own blind spots.

Yes i am guilty of not seeing my blind spot, but i can learn ...also you know how sometimes critizism says more about the one who is critizising than the one who is critizised  

5 hours ago, Mal said:

It's not your fault, it's just you know no better

i don´t know better , but i´m glad i have you who does know better! thx  mr. high and mighty ... LOL

5 hours ago, Mal said:

The spiritual community is a group of mis-informed people with religious upbringing

Really? Good that we aren´t super judgemental anymore and lumping together everyone , i guess i understand now what you mean by " we are all one"  

5 hours ago, Mal said:

most of the teachers out there are pretenders who know nothing of what this original teaching is.

Examples of pretender teachers? Eckard Tolle? Mooji? Who?

Also who are YOU to officialy decide if someone is a fraud or not? LOL again!

Who are some good teachers on the other hand?

And what is the "original teaching"? Does only Written lore of buddhist tradition count?

[Mal]

12 minutes ago, Falk said:

 

Yes i am guilty of not seeing my blind spot, but i can learn ...also you know how sometimes critizism says more about the one who is critizising than the one who is critizised  

i don´t know better , but i´m glad i have you who does know better! thx  mr. high and mighty ... LOL

Really? Good that we aren´t super judgemental anymore and lumping together everyone , i guess i understand now what you mean by " we are all one"  

Examples of pretender teachers? Eckard Tolle? Mooji? Who?

Also who are YOU to officialy decide if someone is a fraud or not? LOL again!

Who are some good teachers on the other hand?

And what is the "original teaching"? Does only Written lore of buddhist tradition count?

What is the problem with being judgemental?  There is nobody to judge, there is just judgement happening.

All teachers who tell you that you need to do something are charlatans who keep the character in the dream fixated in the dream.  But don't worry about them, it seems you are doing a fine job of that yourself.  So, no teacher required 

I don't officially decide who is a fraud, because there is no me deciding anything.  The words are just happening.  I know this might appear to be a problem for you, but as long as you are an identity you will project other identities into people where there are actually no identities present.

The original teaching is: there is no original teaching.  A teaching would imply that there is somebody there to be taught and brought out of the dream.

Inside the dream, you have all the teachings of the world at your disposal.  Pick as many as you want and study.  Keep at it!

 

 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Mal

[Falk]

6 minutes ago, Mal said:

What is the problem with being judgemental?  There is nobody to judge, there is just judgement happening.

All teachers who tell you that you need to do something are charlatans who keep the character in the dream fixated in the dream.  But don't worry about them, it seems you are doing a fine job of that yourself.  So, no teacher required 

I don't officially decide who is a fraud, because there is no me deciding anything.  The words are just happening.  I know this might appear to be a problem for you, but as long as you are an identity you will project other identities into people where there are actually no identities present.

The original teaching is there is no original teaching.  Teaching would imply that there is somebody there to be taught and brought out of the dream.

Inside the dream, you have all the teachings of the world at your disposal.  Pick as many as you want and study.  Keep at it!

Ok cool, thx for answering.

[Mal]

2 minutes ago, Falk said:

Ok cool, thx for answering.

I didn't answer.  Answering just happened 

[cetus]

Shit just happens!

 

[cetus]

It's just happing of it's own There is no doer of "shit happing" Lol

Edited June 25, 2016 by cetus56

[Natasha]

Sounds familiar?

 

   

Edited June 26, 2016 by Natasha