Do Enlightened people think, or just act on their feelings?

[Javfly33]

What is the difference between having 3000 thoughts a day in a self-referential mode, or have like 10-20 thoughts that are precisely there to act on them?

It seems when I've been in days when I've had very little thoughts my actions are more or less the same. I feel maybe 5% more free from the mind, but my mind keeps running the show. What 3000 thoughts a day do give is illusion of control. Maybe thats why it's hard to let go of thoughts, because one can imagine how would be to actually be free. It's very foreign to be free from your mind.

I wonder if enlightened people really can choose accurate thoughts, act on them, and then the mind is silent. That would be amazing.

 

[SoonHei]

enlightenment is the MERGER of the person (trying to become enlightened)  with LIFE

so when it is merged. there is ONLY LIFE. ONE movement flowing.

in that one movement, there's not a chooser, choosing thoughts.
there's simply thoughts which arise, are chosen and then acted upon. and because they are in unity with the whole, it is intuition. 

 

the doing becomes the thinking

the video+audio makes the film

the film simply plays

 

think of it this way. there is a movie playing. the person is the "audio" of the film which thinks it is separate from the "video" which is playing. when the separation between the audio and the video of the movie collapses, it is seen it was always ONE MOVIE playing the Video+Audio together.

#not-two.

Edited March 12, 2020 by SoonHei

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

What is the difference between having 3000 thoughts a day in a self-referential mode, or have like 10-20 thoughts that are precisely there to act on them?

I've found trying to figure it out through more thought stories is inefficient. Observation and direct experience is much deeper for me.

For example, observe the mind process. Observe the nuances of "what is a thought". . . Last week I was out to dinner with a friend and after about 30min. of conversation the topic of thinking came up. I mentioned that I hadn't had a single thought so far in our discussion. She said "Whaaat??!! How can you have a conversation without thinking??!!". . . It was just happening. She would say something while I was listening. And then I would say something while she was listening. There was no processing filter. While she spoke, I wasn't thinking about what I would say next. I wasn't thinking about what she thought about me. . . There was simply speaking and listening. There was simply appearances of words without thought processors. 

This might be hard to imagine. How can there be a discussion without thinking? Yet everyone has already experienced a form of this. . . When we learn a new language the mind translates into our native language. When I was learning Spanish, my mind translated from Spanish to English when I spoke to a Spanish person. I would think as I tried to figure out what the words meant. Yet then after years of practice, my mind started to do it directly without translation. Notice how when someone speaks to you in English, you don't need to translate. Translating from English to English is unnecessary. Your mind does it automatically - no translation thinking is necessary. . . When we have a conversation with someone in English, the mind is doing a different type of "translation" - it is tanslating into meaning "what did she mean by that. I wonder what she thinks of me. What can I say to impress her", This thinking is a form of "translating" and it is unnecessary. . . This goes beyond just conversation. Much of thinking is translating - similar to translating Spanish to English. Yet this translation is not necessary.  

[Javfly33]

15 minutes ago, SoonHei said:

enlightenment is the MERGER of the person (trying to become enlightened)  with LIFE

so when it is merged. there is ONLY LIFE. ONE movement flowing.

in that one movement, there's not a chooser, choosing thoughts.
there's simply thoughts which arise, are chosen and then acted upon. and because they are in unity with the whole, it is intuition. 

 

the doing becomes the thinking

the video+audio makes the film

the film simply plays

 

think of it this way. there is a movie playing. the person is the "audio" of the film which thinks it is separate from the "video" which is playing. when the separation between the audio and the video of the movie collapses, it is seen it was always ONE MOVIE playing the Video+Audio together.

#not-two.

That seems very cool. 'I'm going to pursue that state.

[SoonHei]

@Javfly33 ♥️ hope you realize you were ever-merged soon 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Javfly33 What changes is there is no 'Me' the thoughts and feelings are about, but there is still thoughts and feelings. 

You don't NEED thoughts to function, as The Absolute has always and will always take care of everything. 

Need the toilet? Your body will let you know. 

Need to eat? The sensation of Hunger will rise. 

Etc

When you truly understand this teaching you're always in a 'Thought-Free' state as thoughts are no longer a 'problem' for you like they were.

However, this doesn't mean you never have thoughts, yet when you do you remain 'Thought-Free' it sounds extremely paradoxical, but it's saying thoughts aren't a problem anymore so whether they are there or not, doesn't matter. 

Also, you can still use thought as a tool. Say you're doing your taxes, or planning your trip, that's a good time to utilize the tool. But like with a Laptop, once finished with the tool, you put it away. An awakened accountant will still use thoughts on the job, but could still effortlessly abide in the ever thought free 'state' of The Absolute. 

Hope this makes sense

[SoonHei]

@LfcCharlie4 beautiful

[LfcCharlie4]

@SoonHei you too man, it's a sticking point for a lot of seekers, I used to myself 'demonise' thinking and think I couldn't think anymore, when in reality when you experience it experientially, thoughts just stop being an issue anymore  

[SoonHei]

@LfcCharlie4 right! It's like a big release moment. The idea that thoughts are bad... But what is an idea but another thought  let the thoughts pass like clouds. In one end, out the other ?

I guess it's understood in stages... Spiral like it seems, but once it sticks, it only deepens. It's beautiful ♥️??

Edited March 12, 2020 by SoonHei

[Javfly33]

21 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Javfly33 What changes is there is no 'Me' the thoughts and feelings are about, but there is still thoughts and feelings. 

You don't NEED thoughts to function, as The Absolute has always and will always take care of everything. 

Need the toilet? Your body will let you know. 

Need to eat? The sensation of Hunger will rise. 

Etc

When you truly understand this teaching you're always in a 'Thought-Free' state as thoughts are no longer a 'problem' for you like they were.

However, this doesn't mean you never have thoughts, yet when you do you remain 'Thought-Free' it sounds extremely paradoxical, but it's saying thoughts aren't a problem anymore so whether they are there or not, doesn't matter. 

Also, you can still use thought as a tool. Say you're doing your taxes, or planning your trip, that's a good time to utilize the tool. But like with a Laptop, once finished with the tool, you put it away. An awakened accountant will still use thoughts on the job, but could still effortlessly abide in the ever thought free 'state' of The Absolute. 

Hope this makes sense

Yes, it does make sense. All I can say is...'Im getting there' LOL

[LfcCharlie4]

@SoonHei Exactly man, well said! 

@Javfly33 Keep going, The I-Thought can be very pesky! I would say each time a thought arises do this: 

Firstly welcome and love your thoughts and emotions like you are a guesthouse and they are your guests, even the 'negative' ones, welcome and love them unconditionally. 

This way they will start to open up to you, and (hopefully) stop rushing around like madmen, as they do you can start to investigate each thought as it arises. Where does the thought come from? What is there at the centre of this thought? Is there an 'I' this thought is about? Where does the thought return to once it has 'done its thing'? 

Do the same with emotions also, and find out their and your true origin. 

I would also recommend a Natural Pure Awareness/ Do Nothing meditation, where you do breathing exercises to firstly slow down the stream of thoughts, then simply allow EVERYTHING without any resistance or doing anything at all. 

The reason you want to do this is this is what The Self/ Natural Pure Awareness is ALWAYS doing, usually in the background though. This allows your True Self to slowly come forward and reveal itself to you. 

You can also do this anytime in the day, simply take a breath and rest in awareness. 

Before you'll know it 'foreground', 'background' 'awareness' etc all merge into one, in some kind of 'explosion.' 

And then, simply put thoughts are no longer a problem!

I got this from Ramajis 'No Mind, No Problem' book and it really helped me, and also Shinzen has a YT video on do nothing meditation  

[remember]

after you have overcome the thoughtless state thoughts will arise not only from emotions but from thoughts themselves. it’s not like there would be language to express this state of being. it’s usually referenced as dependent arising it feels like knowledge while it’s more like you can see where all of it is ultimately leading to and you can but smile over your own ignorance.

[Javfly33]

46 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@SoonHei Exactly man, well said! 

@Javfly33 Keep going, The I-Thought can be very pesky! I would say each time a thought arises do this: 

Firstly welcome and love your thoughts and emotions like you are a guesthouse and they are your guests, even the 'negative' ones, welcome and love them unconditionally. 

This way they will start to open up to you, and (hopefully) stop rushing around like madmen, as they do you can start to investigate each thought as it arises. Where does the thought come from? What is there at the centre of this thought? Is there an 'I' this thought is about? Where does the thought return to once it has 'done its thing'? 

Do the same with emotions also, and find out their and your true origin. 

I would also recommend a Natural Pure Awareness/ Do Nothing meditation, where you do breathing exercises to firstly slow down the stream of thoughts, then simply allow EVERYTHING without any resistance or doing anything at all. 

The reason you want to do this is this is what The Self/ Natural Pure Awareness is ALWAYS doing, usually in the background though. This allows your True Self to slowly come forward and reveal itself to you. 

You can also do this anytime in the day, simply take a breath and rest in awareness. 

Before you'll know it 'foreground', 'background' 'awareness' etc all merge into one, in some kind of 'explosion.' 

And then, simply put thoughts are no longer a problem!

I got this from Ramajis 'No Mind, No Problem' book and it really helped me, and also Shinzen has a YT video on do nothing meditation  

@LfcCharlie4 Thanks, I'll need to get me that book.

Some weird shit happened some minutes ago btw. I started focusing on the breath because I was feeling anxious this afternoon, and then I met my father and I got even more anxious. I started walking and focusing on breathing and it came to a point where I thought I was having a panic attack. Then... presence of the present moment revealed it itself. That was euphoric. It lasted only 10-15 seconds though. I imagine Eckhart Tolle is in this state 24/7? Wow 

I honestly don't know what is happening. In one sense I don't feel liberated at all, at the other hand everything seems effortless, I haven't talked with myself in form of thoughts in 4 days I think LoL. But more or less I feel the same . I just hope I pass this stage soon . I don't feel my life is in control at all but at the same time there seems nothing has gotten better :S. This is confusing man.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Javfly33

[ZenBlue]

Yes enlightened people still have thoughts. The thoughts cannot ever be stopped. Enlightened people have learned to separate themselves from the thoughts and can just sit and observe their thoughts without becoming attached to them. As human beings, we are receivers of thoughts. The problems arise when we claim the thoughts as our own and become lost in the thoughts we receive. Enlightened people are still bound to the limitations of being human, thus are not perfect and still have many flaws.

The issue that surrounds spirituality is that it portrays enlightened people as some type of mystical superior beings. They are actually just ordinary people who have developed deeper levels of awareness about life. Of course, the ones who perpetuate the mystery and mysticism won't admit it because there's a lot of money to be made in creating and upholding these illusions.

Yes, control is an illusion, but we do have the ability to choose. You can choose to go after what you love, or you can choose to feed your ego. But you can't control what it is that you love to do. It's a cliche phrase, but it's one of the highest truths: Follow your heart. Your heart is the GPS that will lead you to fulfillment.

[Javfly33]

20 minutes ago, ZenBlue said:

Yes enlightened people still have thoughts. The thoughts cannot ever be stopped. Enlightened people have learned to separate themselves from the thoughts and can just sit and observe their thoughts without becoming attached to them. As human beings, we are receivers of thoughts. The problems arise when we claim the thoughts as our own and become lost in the thoughts we receive. Enlightened people are still bound to the limitations of being human, thus are not perfect and still have many flaws.

The issue that surrounds spirituality is that it portrays enlightened people as some type of mystical superior beings. They are actually just ordinary people who have developed deeper levels of awareness about life. Of course, the ones who perpetuate the mystery and mysticism won't admit it because there's a lot of money to be made in creating and upholding these illusions.

Yes, control is an illusion, but we do have the ability to choose. You can choose to go after what you love, or you can choose to feed your ego. But you can't control what it is that you love to do. It's a cliche phrase, but it's one of the highest truths: Follow your heart. Your heart is the GPS that will lead you to fulfillment.

@ZenBlue Thanks. That seems a perfect explanation and it coincides with what I'm experiencing. 

[Heaven]

14 hours ago, ZenBlue said:

Yes, control is an illusion, but we do have the ability to choose. You can choose to go after what you love, or you can choose to feed your ego. But you can't control what it is that you love to do. 

If u have the ability to choose it means that u do have free will. If u have free will so u do have some sort of control. Am I wrong?

Can u expand pls why control is an illusion?

[LfcCharlie4]

@Heaven  Try and control the next thought or feeling you have. 

Let's give a very primal example, can you choose to be attracted to someone? You didn't choose your first crush did you, it's not like you went and picked them out like yes I fancy them, it just happens, you can't control your thoughts and feelings can you? 

You can choose how you respond to that situation, whether you go and talk to that crush for example. The issue of free will dissolves when you realize there isn't a separate entity choosing, it is simply 'God's Will' or The Absolute, and post-awakening 'your decisions' will come from a place of love and understanding of what is best relative to that moment usually. 

It's kind of impossible to put into words regarding free will, but if there's no separate entity, it doesn't matter if there is free will or not. If you believe there is a separate entity, just be honest with yourself and it APPEARS there is Free Will for this entity, until you realise it was The Absolute that was taking care of everything all along! 

Never a separate self to begin with, therefore, the question becomes void  

It's not that the separate self has no free will if we think we are one, then it seems we have free will.

However, once you realize there is no separate Self, No-Doer etc, you then could easily ask well who chooses, what's in control? 

That's where Absolute Freedom comes in, and if you have awakened the heart, it is like The Absolute and Love then becomes the guiding force in all areas of your life. 

Of course, there may still be bad habits and behaviors but more and more Love and Absolute Freedom are the guiding forces for your life, and life simply becomes a Celebration of this understanding, of this love, of this happiness in all areas of life and you are free to celebrate however you wish and desire to! 

 

[ZenBlue]

10 hours ago, Heaven said:

If u have the ability to choose it means that u do have free will. If u have free will so u do have some sort of control. Am I wrong?

Can u expand pls why control is an illusion?

You can't control whether you are born as a man or woman. You can't choose who your parents are or what country you are born in. You can't control whether you get sick or not. You can't control how long you will live and when or how you will die. You can't control how other people react and what they do with their lives. You don't have free will, but you are gifted with the ability to make decisions. You can't choose what your heart is drawn to, but you can decide to follow your heart. Or you can choose to let fear control you. Most people don't follow their hearts and instead choose to let fear control their lives. Living an authentic life means to follow your heart. Again, you can't control what your heart desires, but you have the ability to choose, fear or love.

[Heaven]

13 hours ago, ZenBlue said:

You can't control whether you are born as a man or woman. You can't choose who your parents are or what country you are born in. You can't control whether you get sick or not. You can't control how long you will live and when or how you will die. You can't control how other people react and what they do with their lives. You don't have free will, but you are gifted with the ability to make decisions. You can't choose what your heart is drawn to, but you can decide to follow your heart. Or you can choose to let fear control you. Most people don't follow their hearts and instead choose to let fear control their lives. Living an authentic life means to follow your heart. Again, you can't control what your heart desires, but you have the ability to choose, fear or love.

Wow it really resonates with me what u are saying..

Any books/videos suggestions?

 

@LfcCharlie4
 

Thank u for always try to help?
I love Rupert his teaching are very clear.

[Lento]

There's no difference.