Non-Duality and Therapy

[LfcCharlie4]

I just wanted to make this post basically regarding meeting people where they are at. 

A lot of people quite simply are not ready for the true understanding of Non-Duality, and telling them 'You are GOD!' probably won't help them too much 

In many cases, we need to meet people where they are at in life and help them in that situation, this has been brought to my attention by several things- 

1) Several friends going through tough times mentally due to several situations and different reasons 

2) Almost instantly after speaking to them I found this video- 

 

Basically, it means tailoring the Non-Dual understanding to an appropriate response to that situation. True Non-Duality isn't about simply telling everyone they don't actually exist and their problems don't matter straight away, they may not be ready for this and this can actually do more harm then good. 

By responding to the situation in a way that meets where they're at and in the way that is most helpful for them, you are actually appropriating this understanding in the best way, in response to a situation. 

On a forum like this, it's easy to forget 'Normal' people just aren't at all interested in Non-Duality and still see themselves as a separate ME and Ego, while of course EVERYONE is the absolute knowingly or unknowingly, many are extremely unconscious of this and what is most beneficial to them is actually helping resolve their issue in whatever way is best. 

In this situation, I recommend a YouTuber who had overcome and healed skin issues (Brian Turner if anyone suffers with Acne) and another I did actually remmend Eckhart Tolle (Not someone who I'd recommend most here) as he used to listen to him a lot, and I know myself listening to him can be very healing in getting in touch with the presence that we are. Also, simply talking and being there for someone can help more than you know. 

Anyways, I've rambled on a lot here, basically what I'm trying to say is that simply saying You Are God! and giving Non-Duality answers right away isn't always the answer, and there's is nothing wrong with things such as Therapy, Lifestyle changes to help depression, Even medication in some extreme cases, to help deal with that particular person's situation. 

Another example would be if say our families had issues, I know my parents wouldn't have one clue what I was going on about if I started telling them about Non-Duality and RASA Loool, so instead I would sit down and actually listen to my families problems and try and help them in a different way. The funny thing is, this is still coming from true Non-Duality as you are helping people where they are at. 

I just wanted to make this post for those of you who have similar situations (or are therapists) with friends, family, Gf/Bfs facing situations in their life and they just aren't ready for these teachings yet and say that meeting them where they are is likely the most effective approach.

And, then when the time is right, you can get down to the real fun stuff 

[loub]

Thank you for sharing. Though I kinda dislike the picture that it paints. I very much agree that you should not bombard people with non-dual insights they did not call for and that that can be harmful.
But making people believe that after 'awakening' you will have no need for therapy can be just as harmful as it creates the idea that there was something wrong to be fixed before awakening, that is changed and so does not need fixing after. While in truth enlightenment does not change anything.

Most people after awakening will remain to experience anger, sadness, loneliness and all the variety of human emotions.
Seekers can easily be deluded into holding enlightenment as some kind of super-human ideal and thus dismiss their humanness. Use consciousness work to fully embrace your humanness, love your self rather than relentlessly try to go beyond it and see where that gets you.

Shinzen Young went to a psychiatrist to sort out some problems he could not deal with after decades of being enlightened. It is very dangerous to think that being human ends with enlightenment.

I enjoy your posts and shares and found you quite inspiring when I saw we are the same age mate,@LfcCharlie4 keep it up. Cheers.

Edited March 11, 2020 by loub

[Martin123]

4 minutes ago, loub said:

Thank you for sharing. Though I kinda dislike the picture that it paints. I very much agree that you should not bombard people with non-dual insights they did not call for and that that can be harmful.
But making people believe that after 'awakening' you will have no need for therapy can be just as harmful as it creates the idea that there was something wrong to be fixed before awakening, that is changed and so does not need fixing after. While in truth enlightenment does not change anything.

Most people after awakening will remain to experience anger, sadness, loneliness and all the variety of human emotions.
Seekers can easily be deluded into holding enlightenment as some kind of super-human ideal that and thus dismiss their humanness. Use consciousness to fully embrace your humanness, love yourself rather than relentlessly try to go beyond it and see where that gets you.

Shinzen Young went to a psychiatrist to sort out some problems he could deal with after decades of being enlightened. It is very dangerous to think that being human ends with enlightenment.

I enjoy your posts and shares and found you quite inspiring when I saw we are the same age mate,@LfcCharlie4 keep it up. Cheers.

BUT THERES NOONE THERE TO GO TO THERAPY OMG!

I'm joking  I'm very pleased to see a post like yours. It's so lovely, yet such truth seems to be in minority on the forum. I wonder why that is, and whether that could shift in the future to make this place a more loving and compassionate community. I'd like that.

[Dazgwny]

@LfcCharlie4 amazing! I’ve literally been thinking about a very similar situation throughout the day today. I’m quite astounded this post has just appeared ?. A much appreciated view on how one might go abouts a situation. I’ll be taking this on board as I was thinking imagine the reaction if I just feed someone a full on non-dual response when I can clearly tell they would be in no way ready to take in what I say. It’s difficult to address but this post has helped ??

[loub]

38 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

BUT THERES NOONE THERE TO GO TO THERAPY OMG!

Haha ^^

 

39 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

It's so lovely, yet such truth seems to be in minority on the forum. 

Thanks <3. I feel this forum does have a very masculine approach that I am currently shifting away from a little (just in time) in favour of a more balanced way of relating to myself and others and reality. A few months ago I would not have agreed with your statement the way I do now as I felt very at home in that environment. Now I kinda intuit how it could be if we were more life embracing and inclusive in this forum, and less intellectual, trying to fix others with our advice etc... 

though overall I am very grateful for this community of what seems to be very well-intended and insightful people, each struggling to make sense of this vast field  

Your thread about letting go in relationships is among my absolute favourites btw so much so that I am almost a little fanboying over here 

[Martin123]

4 minutes ago, loub said:

Your thread about letting go in relationships is among my absolute favourites btw so much so that I am almost a little fanboying over here 

Oh thanks so much hahaha I liked that one too, it was a goodie!

[LfcCharlie4]

@loub I couldn't agree more!! I too agree there is 'Human' and 'Shadow' work still to do post-awakening, which I am still doing. 

I LOVE there's someone on here who actually understands we are still fucking human post-awakening, and still experience emotions as you say! 

Sorry if my post came off as transcending or denying your humanity, I often try and say the complete opposite and am thankful to have such human teachers who have helped me understand this as well. 

As you say Self-Realization is the realization of the truth about our own being, we know we are The Self, we and everyone always Is, but we become conscious of this post-awakening. While there is no separate self as you say, there is still humanity, a unique expression, a personality and EMOTIONS/THOUGHTS, people for some reason don't like to admit that but there is. 

Shinzen Young was actually my teacher's partner Ramajis teacher, he is an incredible master and perfect for westerners coming from a more rationally minded background. I think I remember him saying about therapy in one of his videos I watched but this was years ago I watched it tbf so could be wrong. 

The post was more intended to say, meet people where they are at and be with them there. I'm a 20-year-old male from England so when I'm out with my friends what do we mostly talk about? Typical 20-year-old stuff like Football, certainly not Non-Duality 

And, I would say Awakening in my experience has made it a lot easier to do shadow work and does have certain 'changes' but more in terms of no resistance to the now, and the realization of there not being a 'Me' at the center of all this etc. 

However, if anything it has made me more human, more myself, and more emotional than before. If anything, true human life only begins post-awakening! It's almost like being reborn again. 

But, there's still a human experience, however, you want to phrase it, true awakening allows our humanity to flourish not wither away into a depression sense of nothingness. 

Here's some quotes from Ananda's book on the Paradox of being both The Self/Absolute, and a unique individual simultaneously: 

'This clear seeing enables me to live both as that unlimited nothingness and as this playful personal I AM at the same time. This I AM is indivisibly ONE with infinity. Therefore, the ultimate truth is that I AM THAT.' 

'This Divine fire then spits you out to be a unique dynamic version of itself. This wisdom of space dances carefree as this I AM.' 

'This day and every day I bask in the non-dual knowing of nothingness which translates experientially into the profound pleasure of being an individual too. the clarity of being able to be both fully at once is the final peace and joy. The freedom is in the 'Duality' as well as the 'Non-Duality. It is not one or the other. IT is both yet it is neither'

(I would add both Duality and Non-Duality are simply concepts, all that is, is THIS, and even that is saying too much!) 

The LAST thing I want to imply is that you will no longer be human, it's the complete opposite, embrace your humanity and be YOU, both YOU as The Self, and YOU as your unique expression! 

And, lastly in regards to seekers believing awakening makes them superhuman, I couldn't agree more, I see it often on here. In reality, Self-Realization is the most humbling thing of all, it is a realization YOU are literally as everyone and everything, how could you believe you are superior or inferior after that.

I hope that makes it clear- EMBRACE YOUR HUMANITY!

[Visionary]

13 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

 

I hope that makes it clear- EMBRACE YOUR HUMANITY!

Thanks for this beautiful post and your contribution brother (as always). Preachhhh. This is so so valuable.

And I hope the human in you will heal well after yesterdays loss @ Anfield ?. 

 

[Nahm]

@Visionary Synchronicities off the chart today. Just passed Ederson on my way into therapy. 

[Javfly33]

This in an interesting topic. However I am not yet sure what is the correct answer. I'm going to therapy and lately after my Awakening I have wondered if I should stop going.

Sure therapy can help but this last days I've discovered all of my mental problems are due to attachment of my identity. I know the real solution is just to become more and more consciouss until my identity gets shown as false in all areas of my life, freeing myself from neurotic thoughts which the only reason are there is to maintain an identity.

Other kind of solutions can help but, one can't avoid thinking that those solutions are not really the real solution. The fact is my true nature is 100% fine and my only problem my true nature identifies with a mind and thoughts that have really no subject whatsoever inside. 

But I can imagine to people who are in deep mental problems they do need to go to therapy, and the "real solution" should wait and be implemented once your mind has a minimal mental sanity and purification.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Visionary Thank you man, I'm glad it could help in anyway! 

What are you about there's no human to feel anger or disappointment?????

No, but in all seriousness was gutted, we actually played very well and was let down by a certain someone. Also, very worried how much the Madrid fans spread Corona as somehow the UK government let them come over despite Madrid being in lockdown.... My friends enjoyed us losing at least and made that very clear! 

Tbh though I think sports events can really act as a great metaphor for dealing with emotions. Francis Lucille talks about this as he plays Tennis, ultimately we know it doesn't matter what happens, our true self remains the same either way. However, getting completely lost in the game and wanting to win the game is part of playing. The difference is your happiness is not dependent on the outcome of the game anymore, and if you lose it's okay with you. 

In my case, I went through tension, elation, complete joy, anger, despair, deflation, followed by upset and disappointment in the end. I felt all these emotions fully as they arose, and then let them pass, and in terms of the 'Negative' emotions, there isn't a little me they get 'stuck' around anymore, but this doesn't mean they aren't fully felt. In fact, they are more fully felt than ever before, but then simply let go after. 

Today I am as happy as I was yesterday because The Self/ Awareness etc remains completely unaffected whether we won or lost or whether the game was canceled due to Corona! 

I think the good old Bhagavad Gita puts it best- Complete involvement without true attachment to the outcomes or fruits of your actions. 

Either way, I will remain happy and fulfilled as this doesn't depend on anything 'external.' 

Here's Francis explaining it well  

 

 

@Javfly33 Each situation is unique mate! However, I would in some cases (such as Shinzen Young as the person above mentioned) awakening doesn't simply instantly deal with all issues, and therapy/ whatever else is needed can also be needed post-awakening. Shadow work can be revealing post-awakening and can also involve a certain level of 'work.' 

I think @Haumea2018 could also explain more on that issue. 

However, if for you, you feel therapy has ran it's course in it's own life, maybe in your situation, it's time to let it go, and 'focus' as such on awakening.

I don't think there's a 'one size fits all' answer and that each unique being will have different needs depending on a number of factors. 

I would argue in most cases, awakening would be much 'easier' when you aren't constantly depressed and anxious, as that may make it difficult to sustain any sort of investigation or meditation. 

And, if you have an even more complex Mental Illness I think that's a different story altogether. 

But, I think a case by case approach is the 'ideal' approach, and therapy could be necessary for some, but not for all. 

 

@Nahm

Are you from the UK, if so please don't tell me you're a Man City fan....

If in your case you do not need therapy, then great

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 Are you a Liverpooler?  

[LfcCharlie4]

@Javfly33 Check this mate- 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptkH0uK1uXM

@loub is this the video you was talking about? 

(The end of the video had me smiling at my Laptop like a crazy person )

Edited March 12, 2020 by LfcCharlie4

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk Indeed my friend, who do you support? A few weeks can really change a season, and Corona could still ruin the rest of this one! 

[Visionary]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Visionary Synchronicities off the chart today. Just passed Ederson on my way into therapy. 

Lmfao ?? Ederson?? How the hell?!

 

25 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@Visionary Thank you man, I'm glad it could help in anyway! 

What are you about there's no human to feel anger or disappointment?????

No, but in all seriousness was gutted, we actually played very well and was let down by a certain someone. Also, very worried how much the Madrid fans spread Corona as somehow the UK government let them come over despite Madrid being in lockdown.... My friends enjoyed us losing at least and made that very clear! 

Tbh though I think sports events can really act as a great metaphor for dealing with emotions. Francis Lucille talks about this as he plays Tennis, ultimately we know it doesn't matter what happens, our true self remains the same either way. However, getting completely lost in the game and wanting to win the game is part of playing. The difference is your happiness is not dependent on the outcome of the game anymore, and if you lose it's okay with you. 

In my case, I went through tension, elation, complete joy, anger, despair, deflation, followed by upset and disappointment in the end. I felt all these emotions fully as they arose, and then let them pass, and in terms of the 'Negative' emotions, there isn't a little me they get 'stuck' around anymore, but this doesn't mean they aren't fully felt. In fact, they are more fully felt than ever before, but then simply let go after. 

Today I am as happy as I was yesterday because The Self/ Awareness etc remains completely unaffected whether we won or lost or whether the game was canceled due to Corona! 

I think the good old Bhagavad Gita puts it best- Complete involvement without true attachment to the outcomes or fruits of your actions. 

Either way, I will remain happy and fulfilled as this doesn't depend on anything 'external.' 

Here's Francis explaining it well  

 

@LfcCharlie4

Pfooo well said. Thanks for this good old down to earth explanation of what it means to be human. Corona is an illusion! Lmao. Of course this fact is open for interpretation in terms of how it contaminates, what the dangers are and how we are dealing with the 'felt danger' and the way we reorganize society as a result. But this clearly shows us that rejecting life makes zero sense. Thats not whats meant by peircing the veil of illusion.

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 My family is all Liverpool, I'm not big on any one team in the league. I like to watch mostly Liverpool, Arsenal, and City games from time to time.  But I focus more on the NBA, which it's season just got suspended, so no more games there and I expect the same to happen within the epl.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Visionary Yes man, No matter how awakened you get, them good old emotions will still rise up, there just won't be anyone at the centre when you investigate them! 

No, Some people may want to simply go and meditate and chill post-awakening, and that's fine, it's more of there are 'no rules' that's absolute freedom! 

However, after awakening to the heart, I'm not sure you could go and work for McDonald's, Corrupt companies etc, but the need to survive can be strong, although poisoning children doesn't really align with Love 

@fridjonk I hear you man, as much as I hate to admit it City are great to watch when I put my bias aside! 

And, yes sadly I think that two, maybe Corona will give people more time to turn inwards and realize the truth of their own beings with the lack of entertainment! 

Be interesting to see how society responds, seen some weird Conspiracies on it also, Twitter isn't only a haven for Left-Wing Politics, but also wild conspiracies, always good fun to read, any truth in them? Guess we will see if Cash still exists post this economic downturn....

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 Let's hope some positives come out of this disease, particularly animal rights in China, and this is a nice warning for a future pandemic. We're lucky this one doesn't have an E-bola death rate.  

[Nahm]

@LfcCharlie4 ? I had to google it just to figure out the losing goalie’s name. I googled “football” and “goalie”.lol. Learned a lot for that joke.  ....not a consummate “sports guy” obviously.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm  Oh wow 

You fooled me

 @fridjonk Haven't all these pandemic diseases come from Animals? I was talking about this with someone, maybe we should consider not eating dead flesh anymore  I'm not sure if it was a rumor but didn't AIDS start from Chimpanzees also? 

Maybe it's nature saying- Stop fucking with these sentient beings, they are YOU!