Direct Access to Peace

[Beginner Mind]

No need for psychedelics, says Rupert Spira:

 

[SoonHei]

enlightenment/peace is like getting struck by lightening.

there are ways to increase the chances of getting struck by being outdoors during a thunderstorm and reducing the chances by staying indoors. but sometimes lightening can strike randomly someone minding their own business.

 

it's like an accident. & psychedelics/meditation/practices make you more accident-prone

 

also. god bless good ol' spira

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Good luck getting that across on here

[Beginner Mind]

@LfcCharlie4  I'm not trying to convert anyone to a non-psychedelic approach -- just sharing the possibility that you don't need psychedelics.

[Forestluv]

If the goal is a relative feeling of peace, of course psychedelics aren't necessary. For me, psychedelics often stimulate a sense of groundlessness that can cause anxiety in my mind and body. If my goal is a sense of peace for the mind and body, psychedelics would be far down on my list. Ime, psychedelics are much better for insights and expansion - which can be uncomfortable relative to a mind and body. If I am seeking a sense of peace, I'd much rather mediate in nature. 

Yet paradoxically, over the long-term . . . having many psychedelic experiences of anxiety and ego death has actually help lower my anxiety, allowing for a sense of peace. 

One thing I keep in mind is that the desire of a sense of peace is a desire at the personal / human level. 

[Beginner Mind]

@Serotoninluv Rupert is referring to the peace of our true nature, a deep imperturbable peace that you could call "happiness" or "fulfillment".  I've never tried psychedelics before and I don't doubt their capacity to enable deep insights.  However, I would say that the only thing that really matters is the peace and happiness of your true nature, and you don't need psychedelics for that.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Beginner Mind That's all I'm trying to do!

But apparently you need psychedelics and I'm giving anti-psychedelic dogma, which couldn't be further from the truth. 

I'm all for psychedelics used to help facilitate awakening and for healing reasons. 

Just not for endless seeking and 'experiences' when true awakening is not an experience!

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv Rupert is referring to the peace of our true nature, a deep imperturbable peace that you could call "happiness" or "fulfillment". 

Yes. I understand that. I think most people would interpret this "peace of our true nature" as a "thing". It is seeking the "peace of my true nature" and not seeking the "non-peace of my false nature".

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. It's a wonderful space. 

Ime, there is a deeper level of an unconditional peace that is present regardless of what the mind and body is experiencing. That absolute peace is present during anxiety, panic, terror. love, bliss etc. It is unconditional. I don't think this is how most people would interpret the video above. I think most people would associate this "peace of our true nature" as a sense of serenity and peace. Absolute peace is present during those moments of course, because it is absolute. Yet it is also present when the mind and body is distressed. 

If I organized a spiritual retreat entitled "The realization of absolute peace while you experience panic and terror", I don't think many people would show up. Most people are seeking relative feelings of peace and thats totally fine. If I organized a retreat in a serene area of nature and called it "Discover your true nature of peace and serenity" - a lot more people would show up. The human mind and body wants to experience states that are pleasing. There is something to be said for that. It is very loving and healthy for the mind and body. I would not discourage someone from pursuing this. 

[Beginner Mind]

5 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes. I understand that. That is seeking a "thing". It is seeking the "peace of my true nature" and not seeking the "non-peace of my false nature".

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that. It's a wonderful space. 

Ime, there is a deeper level of an unconditional peace that is present regardless of what the mind and body is experiencing. That absolute peace is present during anxiety, panic, terror. love, bliss etc. It is unconditional. I don't think this is how most people would interpret the video above. I think most people would associate this "peace of our true nature" as a sense of serenity and peace. That is certainly part of it. Yet I don't see Rupert also addressing the absolute peace of suffering, terror etc. 

I think Rupert would point out that for our true nature, nothing is a problem.  Nothing is resisted.  So if there's a feeling of anxiety, that is totally allowed to be as it is.  Suffering can only stand when we are in resistance.  And when you are abiding in the peace of your true nature, resistance is non-existent.

[Beginner Mind]

@LfcCharlie4 Yeah, I'm not saying psychedelics are a waste of time, but rather, just that you don't need them to recognize the peace of your true nature.

[Forestluv]

21 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

I think Rupert would point out that for our true nature, nothing is a problem.  Nothing is resisted.  So if there's a feeling of anxiety, that is totally allowed to be as it is.  Suffering can only stand when we are in resistance.  And when you are abiding in the peace of your true nature, resistance is non-existent.

In theory this is a walk in the park. In direct experience it is extremely difficult. In practice, I've found it helpful to enter places of panic and terror to surrender and transcend panic and terror. Panic and terror equals peace. Yet this is infinitely more difficult to do in direct experience than thinking about it in the mind. This is why psychedelics have been helpful for me. . . . I had to directly face panic and terror in my direct experience to realize the absolute peace within panic and terror. I could not have thought my way through it. On my own, I will not volunteer to enter panic and terror - and surrender to it. Yet with psychedelics, I had no choice. There is a similar process with surrendering into love, peace and bliss. Yet this is much much easier to surrender into, ime. . . . If the above video was titled "Direct access to Terror", I doubt many people would watch it. If the teacher said "Rather than a meditation session of serenity and peace, we will now have a session of mental torture to teach you the nature of absolute peace. People would get up and run away. . . Yet, Terror = Peace. It's the same thing on an absolute level. 

Other beings may have different paths. I'm just speaking from my experience and I'm not saying it is the ultimate truth. For the vast majority of people, it is best that they relax the mind and allow the sense of peace to reveal itself - and to theorize about how absolute peace exists within trauma. Actually realizing this in direct experience is extremely hard on the human mind and body. My practice has involved what appears to be some irreparable damage to my physical brain and body. Yet there is absolute peace within that. However, I would not suggest my path for 99.99% of people.

[fridjonk]

@Beginner Mind @LfcCharlie4

https://actualized.org/insights/total-omniscience-awakening 

Watch from 3:45

 

 

[Beginner Mind]

14 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

In theory this is a walk in the park. In direct experience it is extremely difficult. In practice, I've found it helpful to enter places of panic and terror to surrender and transcend panic and terror. Panic and terror equals peace. Yet this is infinitely more difficult to do in direct experience than thinking about it in the mind. This is why psychedelics have been helpful for me. . . . I had to directly face panic and terror in my direct experience to realize the absolute peace within panic and terror. I could not have thought my way through it. On my own, I will not volunteer to enter panic and terror - and surrender to it. Yet with psychedelics, I had no choice. There is a similar process with surrendering into love, peace and bliss. Yet this is much much easier to surrender into, ime. . . . If the above video was titled "Direct access to Terror", I doubt many people would watch it. Yet, terror = peace. It's the same thing on an absolute level. 

Other beings may have different paths. I'm just speaking from my experience and I'm not saying it is the ultimate truth. 

Indeed, we are all on our own path.  I have full respect for your perspective and your countless valuable contributions to this community, even if I don't always understand where you're coming from.

[Forestluv]

9 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

Indeed, we are all on our own path.  I have full respect for your perspective and your countless valuable contributions to this community, even if I don't always understand where you're coming from.

It sounds like you are on a good path. I would encourage you to stick with what resonates with you. I am simply offering an imaginary contextualization I am creating right now. Quite often, I like to reveal the nature of opposites. It is both brilliant insight and total bullshit. 

What I am offering has no more truth than what Rupert is offering or that anyone else is offering. You get to create your own reality. 

[Beginner Mind]

@fridjonk Like I said, I have no doubt that psychedelics can lead to profound insights, I'm just saying you don't need them for the one thing that truly matters: recognizing your true nature.  Any insights beyond that recognition, as mind-blowing as they may be, are superfluous.

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk You do know everything I'm saying comes from direct experience right? I'm not speaking conceptually. 

I am very intrigued to see where Leo goes in 5-10 years, I broke down his most recent video, showing how all of his teachings are that of the great masters, which is amazing, it just isn't unique. 

It's just his path is unique, and like I said I have ZERO issue with Psyches when used responsibly

 @Beginner Mind Exactly what I and every Self-Realized teacher out there is trying to say. 

[Beginner Mind]

18 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It sounds like you are on a good path. I would encourage you to stick with what resonates with you. I am simply offering an imaginary contextualization I am creating right now. Quite often, I like to reveal the nature of opposites. It is both brilliant insight and total bullshit. 

What I am offering has no more truth than what Rupert is offering or that anyone else is offering. You get to create your own reality. 

Rupert's pointers resonate with me due to their clarity and simplicity. 

Your perspective is always appreciated.  Truly.

[fridjonk]

14 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

Any insights beyond that recognition, as mind-blowing as they may be, are superfluous.

You literally can't say that until you've had those experiences. It's all speculation from your pov.

14 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

You do know everything I'm saying comes from direct experience right? I'm not speaking conceptually. 

I know, but as Leo said in this video, you can not fully embody god through any of these sober methods. These levels of consciousness are those of utterly complete insanity, where one forgets that he was ever a human, that all of human history was just you as god who completely lost your mind in all of this creation. 

21 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

It's just his path is unique, and like I said I have ZERO issue with Psyches when used responsibly

 

I know you don't have any ill will towards them, but I just hope you give them a REAL shot in the future, by going all the way down the rabbit hole and into the godhead. 

[SOUL]

I watched this video and Spira has some insightful things to offer yet there was some opportunity to bring some clarity to this particular person's path.

He did express to him about the awareness 'behind' everything in the mind though it may have been helpful to instruct him to recognize that awareness behind in the periods where his overactive mind is embroiled in the OCD. It's great he gave him a way to use that peace of awareness in every day relations of less charged moments. That can be a powerful way to create a peace in those more conducive outer circumstances.

He could have also reminded him how powerful it is to take that same approach in the highly charged inner relations with his OCD mind. That mind is trying to instigate behavior even if that behavior is confined to within his consciousness like resistance or denial of the activity which creates distress. If he wants peace in those moments that awareness behind could serve as that basis of peace.

Eventually this would create a lasting inner environment of peace naturally that he previously was experiencing after his trips which would fade away.

[Beginner Mind]

2 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

You literally can't say that until you've had those experiences. It's all speculation from your pov.

I can't say I'm content with the peace of my true nature, and need nothing else?  Pretty sure I can say that.