Direct Access to Peace

[LfcCharlie4]

@Nahm okay okay ? 

Just because I’ve heard people on here saying they “need” that  

in my experience, after realising the truth of your own being, nothing is needed, and then we are free to essentially do what we want as you said- sorry if I’m being too much on the point ?

[Beginner Mind]

6 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@Beginner Mind No, it's because there is nothing else to do with this life. God created duality to experience and know itself. It goes beyond happiness. Sure happiness is a nice side-effect of this work, but it's not the main purpose. 

I think the desire for happiness motivates everything we do. 

Agree to disagree. 

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 If nothing is needed, why do you eat, or wear clothes, or use the internet? Those are all choices the ego chooses, it makes up reasons as to why it needs these things.  

 

[fridjonk]

@Beginner Mind The universe is motivated only by love and goodness. I'd say happiness is a relative. Cancer is just cancer, and it's happy to be itself, even though from a human perspective it may seem evil. 

[Beginner Mind]

2 hours ago, SOUL said:

I watched this video and Spira has some insightful things to offer yet there was some opportunity to bring some clarity to this particular person's path.

He did express to him about the awareness 'behind' everything in the mind though it may have been helpful to instruct him to recognize that awareness behind in the periods where his overactive mind is embroiled in the OCD. It's great he gave him a way to use that peace of awareness in every day relations of less charged moments. That can be a powerful way to create a peace in those more conducive outer circumstances.

He could have also reminded him how powerful it is to take that same approach in the highly charged inner relations with his OCD mind. That mind is trying to instigate behavior even if that behavior is confined to within his consciousness like resistance or denial of the activity which creates distress. If he wants peace in those moments that awareness behind could serve as that basis of peace.

Eventually this would create a lasting inner environment of peace naturally that he previously was experiencing after his trips which would fade away.

I hadn't thought of it that deeply.  Generally, I find Rupert to be very sensitive and considerate when addressing people's questions and concerns, but you may be right that he could've offered a bit more in this case.

[Beginner Mind]

13 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

@Beginner Mind The universe is motivated only by love and goodness. I'd say happiness is a relative. Cancer is just cancer, and it's happy to be itself, even though from a human perspective it may seem evil. 

Happiness is our very nature, in my experience.

[Nahm]

@Beginner Mind

“I think the desire for happiness motivates everything we do. 

Agree to disagree.  

But if you are unaware of your true nature, it will seem like you need many things: the right job, nice house, the perfect partner, etc.  At least in my experience, the sense of lack only dissolves when I'm resting as my true nature.”

As crazy as it might initially sound...what I’m saying is that is a perspective chosen. Another perspective is that it is Happiness which is ‘doing’ anything. “Agreeing to disagree” is fine, of course...but...you’re saying what you are looking for is not the case right now.  Such a thought / perspective can be “inspected”, saving all kinds of “work” & “effort”.  Similar to “the sense of lack only dissolves when I’m resting in my true nature”.  You’re defining your true nature, and then looking for it outside your own definition. I hope there’s no offense taken. I acknowledge this might be a “radical” perspective. 

[Beginner Mind]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

As crazy as it might initially sound...what I’m saying is that is a perspective chosen. Another perspective is that it is Happiness which is ‘doing’ anything. “Agreeing to disagree” is fine, of course...but...you’re saying what you are looking for is not the case right now.  Such a thought / perspective can be “inspected”, savings all kinds of “work” & “effort”.  Similar to “the sense of lack only dissolves when I’m resting in my true nature”.  You’re defining your true nature, and then looking for it outside your own definition. I hope there’s no offense taken. I acknowledge this might be a “radical” perspective. 

I would define my true nature as happiness or peace.  I'm not sure what you mean when you say I'm looking for it outside of my definition...?  I'm looking for it in the only place it can be found: within myself.

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Beginner Mind said:

I hadn't thought of it that deeply.  Generally, I find Rupert to be very sensitive and considerate when addressing people's questions and concerns, but you may be right that he could've offered a bit more in this case.

I'm sure he wasn't being insensitive or inconsiderate but he just may not be suited as a teacher to guide someone who has a such inherently problematic mind. The type of guidance he might need is more therapeutic in nature instead of just mystical, a blend of both approach. I don't know how much experience he has with such challenged individuals.

Of course, Spira alluded to previous time the young man shared so he might have multiple interactions with him and may convey to him what I just mentioned in another session. The reason I have some insight to this is because I'm one who was blessed with a similarly problematic mind which ironically did strengthen me with my inner work along my path.

Edited March 10, 2020 by SOUL

[LfcCharlie4]

@LfcCharlie4 I meant in order to be happy and at peace from the absolute perspective of The Self/ The Absolute. 

In terms of why do anything else:

1) Practical/ Survival Reasons- E.g. Eating, Drinking, Earning money 

2) Expression of happiness, peace, love and joy- seeing friends for the fun of it, exercising for the joy (and health of the body!), coming on the forum for the joy of it etc 

Sorry if I wasn’t clear I can see how that came across tbf ?

All I meant was Peace/Happiness is inherent in The Self/ Awareness, and as a result there is no need to do anything to obtain Peace/Happiness. Simply the desire to express it in all areas of life. 

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4 

But who is it that wants to do all these things? It's the sneaky ego, which can still be present after self-realization. 100% ego death is the most insane thing one can experience. I've not been there all the way, but close. To the point where you realize all of the 14 billion years, all trail back to the starting point where god forgot who he was. Thus, utter insanity. 

[VeganAwake]

I look at things as whatever arises arises...

If happiness anger fear guilt hate boredom arise it arises for nobody.

There's no need to make a story out of it because it's just what's happening... just conditioning...

As soon as any expectation in the mind is created, its setting yourself up for failure.

Allow it to be...go with the flow...

Then by doing this suffering is drastically reduced because you're not resisting what is ❤

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk That’s where I’d strongly disagree. 
 

It’s not the “ego” who wants to do these things, as to me Ego implies an identification with the body/mind. 
 

It is merely God wishing to express the peace and happiness in action.

They are not “my desires” but Gods desires, and post awakening God still wants you to embrace your humanity and your individuality as a human. 

Nisgardatta had a wife and a family, and shouted at his students for example. 
 

why? Because he was an Enneagram 8 and embraced his own humanity. 

Whereas Ramana was very peaceful and more passive, why? Because he was an Enneagram 9 and embracing his humanity. 
 

ALL The Self, ALL unique expressions of this. 

I AM THAT means embracing your humanity to, but you simultaneously know who you truly are. 
 

it’s a great Paradox, and really is near impossible to put in words, but experientially is the greatest joy. 
 

In earlier awakenings I also felt the “lack” of not truly being able to express my humanity, and reading life denying books really scared me if I’m honest. But, it is the most amazing gift of all basking in Non-Dual freedom day in day out, while also, expressing the playful uniqueness of my humanity, it’s getting my cake and eating it too! 

I’ve had this conversation with people before, Action does not Always equal ego at all. In fact, awakening actually frees you up to take more action, without resistance, and now knowing who you truly are instead of believing you are a separate self in a big scary world. You’re God wanting to experience itself in the play of shiva. And, you have the power of God/ The Absolute! 

 

[LfcCharlie4]

@VeganAwake Yes! 
 

Spontaneous action based on whatever arises, I don’t know what will arise tomorrow, but honestly I’m not bothered as NOW is so amazing and to be embraced fully, without any resistance what so ever. 
 

And, great point about suffering, after seeing through the separate self, emotions and thoughts no longer have a “me” to latch on to, they simply flow through awareness with no resistance. However, in my experience you feel emotions even more deeply, but simultaneously let them go once they have been felt. 
 

Without a “me” there is no stickiness. 
 

 

[fridjonk]

@LfcCharlie4  I'd call that false self, not ego. Ego to me is your sense of reality, your memory of how to eat and put clothes on, your memory of a childhood and every little thing that stood out and stuck to your individuality. Full ego death can make one forget which mouth to put food into because there never was a you or another. Ego is that which makes your body not turn into bread after you eat bread, there is embedded ego intelligence which goes all the way back to the origin of this imagination. 

With total full awakening, there never even was such a thing as an I or YOU, that concept completely melts away. It was all imagination, so saying I AM is even wrong because there never was such a thing. Or I AM YOU, that too would be wrong. Because that was all just imagination, other and I, never was such a thing. 

Ramana and Nisargadatta never existed, you imagined they existed. You imagine them, then you imagine they know something you don't, thus...authority. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@fridjonk Well, then there's also semantics here at play. 

It seems to me what you're talking about here is deep awakening experiences and I agree during awakening these things happen, and it can often take time to then integrate back into life after this. 

And, yeah all words are rendered useless, everything is, however, we're having a discussion on an online forum so not sure what else we can use, I constantly say the highest teaching is in silence as The Absolute is pure silence, to speak it is to already make some sort of concession. 

There is just THIS. 

However, I am merely talking about the integration of Self-Realization in terms of expressing and living this understanding in life. In my experience, there is still a Personality, Interests, An Enneagram type, etc

If that's not your experience then it's not, I'm not denying it's all imaginary, It's all The Self, It's All THIS, that's as far as words can go really, that's why they are just pointers.

I never said Ramana or Nisgardatta knew something I didn't everything they 'knew' is within me, just like it's within you, they aren't special or authority, in fact true awakening humbles you and makes you realise there is NO hierarchy, we are all The Self, so there is no superiority of becoming 'Enlightened' in fact Enlightenment, Spirituality, Non-Duality etc All concepts that have their function but ultimately THIS is the truth. Sorry if me quoting others made you think I think there is some form of Authority, that couldn't be further from the truth. Simply, they are beings who have fully recognized the truth of their own being. 

Anyways, we're going back and forth a lot here, and I'm not sure we are achieving much! 

In summary- 

THIS IS ITTTTTTTT. 

 

[fridjonk]

20 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Anyways, we're going back and forth a lot here, and I'm not sure we are achieving much! 

 

These are just fun discussions, I like how different perspectives from different cultural upbringings and teachings, and how they can play a role in how we think differently but ultimately agree on the fundamental same thing.     

https://actualized.org/insights/dpt-the-other-god-molecule

Watch from 48:40 till the end. Don't take the psychedelic part to heart. I know your stance on them isn't denial such as Leo points out in the vid  . But the part about embodiment and experiences. 

Ultimately I like discussing these things back and forth because I like "you". This is the fun part about forums.