Rape and India

[Parththakkar12]

Women who follow the current social structure have very legit reasons for that. The patriarchy is one of the most central institutions of survival here. Family values have been a huge deal from a survival perspective. Now shifts need to happen and are happening, so the smoothest transition would be to create new systems of survival that don't require the old patriarchy. This will take a lot of consciousness from progressives and patience with the general herd, allowing them to evolve at their own pace.

Believe me, I would change this overnight if I could! Newer generations are standing on the shoulders of bigger giants though so it's not fully hopeless.

[remember]

3 minutes ago, Harikrishnan said:

I want my daughter to rise up and stand up for there own and fight against atrocities faced by them. As a father i will always be there to support her only from back, coz i know she can fight for her own.

I think women are seeing themselves low and are sticking to stories put up by men. I want them to break free of all clutches that is holding them back and they dont need any men for that.

I want every women to realize the kali in them and dance at top of shiva.

that’s true in a sense - although we are still in it together  never forget that empowerment also means to empower men or accept that they are reassured by your silence.

Edited March 10, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

In a male dominated society it is very easy to say 

"hey woman, why don't you go out there and speak up, why don't you stand up, I know that you can fight for your own so I won't support you" 

What a cop out. 

 

Fully knowing that women protesting and fighting back will achieve very little in an environment dominated by men. 

Just another way of mocking and challenging women and victimizing them when they can't fight enough 

Where is the man??? 

He has zero role?? 

Wow.

@Serotoninluv was making a good point on the thread about the male role in this situation. 

But his point was constantly being diverted and ignored 

So much for supporting your daughter? 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Preety_India

[Parththakkar12]

11 minutes ago, remember said:

that’s true in a sense - although we are still in it together  never forget that empowerment also means to empower men or accept that they are reassured by your silence.

Of course it means to empower men!! Do you really think men feel empowered by the patriarchy?! Hell no!! Men face shaming for 'being a player' or 'being a harasser' if they just initiate dating. Men or women don't really have sexual autonomy here. Of course you gotta fit into the chauvinistic mould! Initiating dating is seen as 'being disrespectful towards women'. The whole parenting strategy and value system sets you up to be the best candidate for an arranged marriage.

The issue is created by the collective, but will be conclusively resolved on an individual level by those who care about it.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12

Patriarchy affects women more than it affects men. 

I think this is obvious. 

If it is so dangerous for man's survival, they would have gotten rid of it very swiftly. 

 

 

[remember]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

@Parththakkar12

Patriarchy affects women more than it affects men. 

I think this is obvious. 

If it is so dangerous for man's survival, they would have gotten rid of it very swiftly. 

 

 

well, i guess he also makes a legit point there. it’s about gender emancipation in general and trusting in people to being able to manage their love choices on their own. while women are held in the romance tower guys are held in the hierarchy pyramid.

[Harikrishnan]

Just now, remember said:

that’s true in a sense - although we are still in it together  never forget that empowerment also means to empower men.

My best friends are all women, that to married older than me women. I think my growth apart from pd came from these women,  they made think differently from women's perspective. I could not have done it with only leo's material. I want every Indian man to have either a group or one good women best friend. When I started making women friends more my idea was to have more sex. But everything changed when i started to know them more. Every women i wanted to have sex with then, is now best friends. Sex wouldnt have satisfied me this much. 

And i accept i also did a mistake here not talking about what men have to do. Thats coz everything preethi, serotonin and you said about Men have to do is correct for me i dont have nothing more to add to it. 

And as @remember have said for me to do. When having conversation with my male friends about females i tell them 'now think from there shoes' if you are that women what would have u done in same situation, i see my male friends thinking like that and changing there views.

I am seeing this a long process i will play my part,  Harikrishnan has a lot to do and i wont run away from this seeking security in another first world country. I will raise atleast my state from red- blue -orange to good green.

 

[Preety_India]

@remember this is a thread about rape. A woman's survival, her most basic right being in danger. 

I think he can discuss his dating woes later. 

I think when a man is trying to bring up his cultural issues when a woman is trying to discuss her problems is like deflecting and downplaying her issues by mixing his issues into it. 

Maybe it's not his intention to distract but it does reasonably appear that way 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Preety_India

[Parththakkar12]

I'm here to tell you : it's disempowering for men too. It's an archaic system that everyone's been programmed with and very few people question. You can debate all day whether men get affected more or women (apples or oranges) but the fact remains that men are also programmed to make major sacrifices for the system. Do you really think men don't get taught to respect women?! It's very strict like you're not allowed to be sexual towards anyone. That's part of the problem.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[remember]

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@remember this is a thread about rape. A woman's survival, her most basic right being in danger. 

I think he can discuss his dating woos later. 

 

yes but that’s how frustration and separation is created - it’s addressing the structural problem and frustration between the genders. it’s basically that they don’t really learn to understand each other because everything is so blue.

Edited March 10, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

@Harikrishnan good to know 

 

[Preety_India]

@remember

3 minutes ago, remember said:

yes but that’s how frustration and separation is created - it’s addressing the structural problem and frustration between the genders.

That should be addressed separately under dating difficulties for men and women in a patriarchal culture. 

It's not like women don't face it. 

I am scared to go on Indian dating website because of an unsafe environment. Thus even i face issues in such a structure not just men. 

But let's not use this to distract from the topic of rape

 

 

[Parththakkar12]

6 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@remember this is a thread about rape. A woman's survival, her most basic right being in danger. 

I think he can discuss his dating woes later. 

I think when a man is trying to bring up his cultural issues when a woman is trying to discuss her problems is like deflecting and downplaying her issues by mixing his issues into it. 

Maybe it's not his intention to distract but it does reasonably appear that way 

 

First of all, they're not necessarily my issues. Secondly, good luck resolving your issues by holding up separation between male issues and female issues! They're mirror images of each other. 

[remember]

8 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

First of all, they're not necessarily my issues. Secondly, good luck resolving your issues by holding up separation between male issues and female issues! They're mirror images of each other. 

in this thread yes - but in every day occurrences male issues are mirror issues to male issues. let’s not bring this so much on a personal level again.

@Preety_India has also written very much about her fears and what happened to her, it’s about some respect, she’s right - let’s not try to justify these thing by talking about dating issues. as long as women get harassed there won’t be any better dating platforms - or the platforms make it safe for women.

Edited March 10, 2020 by remember

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 in the context of rape no. I never said that I'm dismissing a man's issues. All I'm saying that it's not very relevant in the middle of a discussion of rape that impacts women very deeply. 

 

[Parththakkar12]

Okay. I understand what you're saying. My point though, is that men aren't these evil masterminds orchestrating master-plans on how to oppress women for fun! Men have their own chauvinistic role to fill according to the patriarchy and are struggling to break out of it themselves. The patriarchy doesn't help men a lot either. For the most part, men are in the same boat relative to the patriarchy! Every single female issue has a mirror opposite male issue. It can't not be that way in a universe based on oneness.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Parththakkar12

[Preety_India]

What I noticed on the this thread are a bunch of intellectually dishonest maneuvers in order to steer away from a healthy resolution for rape 

Some of the observations I made are 

• Shaming a woman for the way she dresses 
• Not discussing male mentality 
• Challenging a woman and telling her that it's own problem and only she should sort it out alone 
• Using religion as a distraction 
• Calling the government corrupt and completely dismissing its role 
• Not discussing enough about the role of law enforcement 
• Calling society a jungle and using that as a cop out 
• Not talking openly about a man's role in this resolution 
• Thinking safety is an entitlement 
• Blaming women and implying that they are victim playing 
• Bringing up men's issues in the middle of a core issue 
• Telling westerners to stay out of this 
• Using rape happening in other countries as a cop out or lame defense 
• Comparing Islam to Hinduism in this context 
• Blaming the oppression of women on women 
• Blaming the patriarchy even though patriarchal systems are dominated by men 

I guess I was the only person and a few others who tried to stay on track and strictly discuss the issues affecting a woman's safety and survival. 

Nothing but a bunch of male apologists. Sadly I expected better. 

 

Edited March 10, 2020 by Preety_India

[Parththakkar12]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

What I noticed on the this thread are a bunch of intellectually dishonest maneuvers in order to steer away from a healthy resolution for rape 

Some of the observations I made are 

• Shaming a woman for the way she dresses 
• Not discussing male mentality 
• Challenging a woman and telling her that it's own problem and only she should sort it out alone 
• Using religion as a distraction 
• Calling the government corrupt and completely dismissing its role 
• Not discussing enough about the role of law enforcement 
• Calling society a jungle and using that as a cop out 
• Not talking openly about a man's role in this resolution 
• Thinking safety is an entitlement 
• Blaming women and implying that they are victim playing 
• Bringing up men's issues in the middle of a core issue 
• Telling westerners to stay out of this 
• Using rape happening in other countries as a cop out or lame defense 
• Comparing Islam to Hinduism in this context 
• Blaming the oppression of women on women 
• Blaming the patriarchy even though patriarchal systems are dominated by men 

I guess I was the only person and a few others who tried to stay on track and strictly discuss the issues affecting a woman's safety and survival. 

Nothing but a bunch of male apologists. Sadly I expected better. 

 

Projections don't help either tho... I conclude my piece with this.

[Preety_India]

@Parththakkar12 you can't call observations projections

 

[fi1ghtclub]

@Preety_India
Check out what is happening with the dowry law. It is being miused right now.

A stricter law is necessary, that's agreed. But that's not the ultimate solution.

The law enforcement agencies also consist of bunch of people like us who are overworked and underpaid, especially in India.

Most of them have no sense of their duty because there is no such culture. You only have to work hard until you get the job, that's the norm when it comes to government jobs in India.

Indian police are highly efficient and there have been multiple cases of them being there and not doing anything.

Everybody is on their own.

Awareness looks like the only solution. And not the kind of awareness like just imparting knowlege

Making people aware of their shadows. Not demonizing anyone including the rapist and criminal.

The responsiblity of a crime does not lie on one individiual. It lies on the society as a whole.

Projections happens from both the sides. And Indian men are highly unaware and oblivious of their own privilige because of being raised like the favored child.

It's a very challening problem if you look at it from multiple perspectives.

And I agree, most of them right now just involve extending men their privilige more and more. And they're doing it because they have absolutely no clue.

You have raised some extremely valid points.