Is Enlightenment the end of all negativity?

[lennart]

Hey guys I am curious about this question because I had a very important experience on MDMA last year where all my negative connotations about myself and others just fell away and the mind attacks where gone. During that experience I thought I feel enlightened now but I had no collapsing of my boundaries just a very decreased ego activity. Do you think enlightenment is a close to my experience but maybe even more intense?

[Osaid]

@lennart Enlightenment = no ego .... I think

[Nahm]

@lennart Yeah you could say it’s the end of all negativity, and also that there’s no enlightenment and there never was any negativity. It was always a thought rooted in innocence, never asserted. For anything to be “negative”...one has to be judging it...believing it’s not themself. Some even judge themselves, but their actually not, that’s also a thought, rooted in innocence. As in, one can not be the awareness of a thought, and the “me” content of a thought. (Self referential thinking). Hence the age old “Don’t eat from the tree of good & evil...but from the tree of life”. Life knows no duality. You might say “negativity” boils down to the actuality of “doesn’t feel good”. The “trick”...is realizing it is your thought which doesn’t feel good, not perception. 

[Arcangelo]

Is Enlightenment the end of all negativity?

No.

[lennart]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@lennart Yeah you could say it’s the end of all negativity, and also that there’s no enlightenment and there never was any negativity. It was always a thought rooted in innocence, never asserted. For anything to be “negative”...one has to be judging it...believing it’s not themself. Some even judge themselves, but their actually not, that’s also a thought, rooted in innocence. As in, one can not be the awareness of a thought, and the “me” content of a thought. (Self referential thinking). Hence the age old “Don’t eat from the tree of good & evil...but from the tree of life”. Life knows no duality. You might say “negativity” boils down to the actuality of “doesn’t feel good”. The “trick”...is realizing it is your thought which doesn’t feel good, not perception. 

I kind of understand that there never was negativity in the first place but how is that in one moment I feel absolutely amazing and as if someone cleaned me glasses through which I see the world and the next day all this judging and all the insecurity is back...

[Nahm]

@Arcangelo ? I see whatcha did there. Nice. 

@lennart I’m sure it goes by many names, but I refer to it as the inspection work & purification. 

“Judging and insecurity is back”... - ....”A thought which doesn’t feel good, arises, now”. 

Negative thoughts really are just one single thought arising now, which doesn’t feel good. We learned to listen to the thoughts (conditioning)... then we unlearn conditioning, by ’listening’ to feeling. When a thought doesn’t feel good, inspect it via putting feeling first. The emotional scale is a great tool for this. The root of us all is Unconditional Love, and it is very much “alive”, infinite, and present, and will clean out any negative thoughts - if feeling is put first. (The alternative is ‘suffering’)

There is also the ‘path’ of duality to nonduality. Look for the Twoness (me+other, me+world, me+”myself”) in each arising single thought, to see the mechanism of believing-thought-suffering. 

Judgement. - Judgement of another is inherently false (me+other), as with scrutiny of thought, perception, feeling...and the inseparable knowing of them...there is no duality. It then makes sense (sensation) why judgement is nonsensical. 

There is also self-judgement (me+myself). Such as:

”I get so angry at myself“. 

The exact same thing applies, as there aren’t two of you...an “ I “ and a “myself”. So this won’t resonate in Truth-Love either. I refer to that as self referential thought...thought about a “myself” which is actually only a thought (not an actual self). 

Insecurity. - Same thing going on. When ’run through’ either the dual - nondual filter, or the feeling first filter...it doesn’t hold up. 

Ultimately the key is inspecting until you realize - you created all “negativity” thoughts, and are continuing to do so - BUT YOU DON”T HAVE TO. The same is true for self-judgement, resulting in “insecurity”. Mixing perception, self referential thought, and suppressing feeling...you created a belief, an idea of you. When this is seen, you could continue to do so...but it would be equivalent to cutting your hand with a knife. You simple wouldn’t, because of how it feels, and because you’re aware you’re doing it. So it could be said the name of the game, so to speak, it realizing how you did it, and how / that you continue to do it. As you do, the infinite love of God will clean it all right out of the body (&mind). The body is always in “purification mode”, there’s no “on switch” (though the first five minutes of the movie Up are known to trigger non-resistance well). This is why some people feel hurried, in a rush, everything is a means to an end, etc. The body is purifying, thought is suppressing. 

[Osaid]

@lennart That's the ego projecting itself onto reality, making it look bad and not amazing. Of course, that's all illusory.

[SoonHei]

@lennart it's taking control of the wheel of your car-of-life

 

There will still be potholes on the road, but you are now able to avoid them, as you're now in control.

[Arcangelo]

39 minutes ago, Nahm said:

? I see whatcha did there. Nice. 

Haha! I mean, when I had my SAE I stayed ''enlightened'' for about a week. During that week I had no monkey mind whatsoever so in a way it was the end of negativity. But everything else remained the same, for example: I you are addicted to something you will stay an addict after enlightenment, and that's pretty negative. OFC you will realize you are not the body so it is impossible for you to be addicted and bla bla bla. But the body you have been given will remain addicted.

Another example if you have negative shitty job after enlightenment you will still have that job with that POS boss. Is not like people get promoted after enlightenment. I could go on forever....

 

Arc

Edited March 9, 2020 by Arcangelo
are

[VeganAwake]

Negativity can still happen because there is still a conditioned body that may have been abused or taught bad habits and things like that... what has changed though is the identification with the human body / Ego construct as the self, and the resistance to what is has been dropped. There's no longer suffering.

So basically what happens are these conditioned unhealthy patterns aren't entertained any longer or fed any energy so they are usually drastically reduced if not completely eliminated ...sometimes upon awakening these shadows are surfaced immediately from the subconscious and dissolve in the light of awareness. 

As Consciousness expands and the further one moves on the path towards Samadhi the less suffering and negative behavior seem to arrise.

 

[lennart]

tanke you guys for helping me to understand this. I am curious if anybody of you has "reached" this and if he can explain how it feels?

 

[LfcCharlie4]

Not only does it feel like I'm talking to myself because you are literally The Self as well, but an MDMA experience where I finally didn't feel depressed is what made me think there is more to life! 

However, the experience is just that, an experience! 

You're not going to go through life on an MDMA high forever, but true Self-Realization is far better than any MDMA or any high, as recognizing the truth of your own being consequently results in absolute Peace and Happiness. 

If you think enlightenment will mean you get to never have a 'Negative' (as Nahm said we create the meaning whether something is negative/positive) emotion then you'll be in for a rude awakening. If a family member dies, do you think you won't be sad? The difference is there's no 'Me' who attaches to the thoughts and emotions so instead you FULLY feel it in the NOW, with your whole being and once you've done that you let the feeling go. 

A famous master once said to his student- 'Enlightenment is fully feeling with every inch of your body, in every moment. So, in actuality, you will feel more not less!

However, I think you mean you're currently struggling with some things and want enlightenment to solve all of them, which of course true awakening can help tremendously. However, even post-awakening, there's integration and often shadow work, so if you're suffering with certain issues I would look for more direct solutions simultaneously. It becomes much easier to investigate your true nature without the burden of depression and anxiety, believe me! 

Also 'I' never become enlightened, there's no such thing as an 'Enlightened Person', there are simply beings who have recognized their own true nature fully, and those who it is currently veiled in. Enlightenment won't make you special, it will actually humble you a lot as you realize YOU and EVERYTHING/EVERYONE are The Self, so all sense of superiority or inferiority are gone in that aspect. 

But, please let me make this clear Enlightenment is NOT an experience, many on here talk about 'Enlightenment Experiences,' great you had a glimpse of your true nature, but true awakening is the recognition of what you and reality are, and an abidance as that!

So, to answer your question, awaken and find out for yourself. More concepts and ideas aren't going to help you much as it seems you're already idealizing an enlightened 'state.' 

Investigate your own being, is there anyone actually at the 'center' of all of this? Is there a thinker or just thoughts? Is there a feeler or just feelings?

Good luck my friend, and if you need some encouragement Self-Realization is the most amazing realization possible, but you can only know that from your own existential 'experience.' (I get the irony in that last word!) 

[Nahm]

@Arcangelo You have the ‘power’ to shed resistance & change what you like.  There’s a ‘magic’ in practical ways, and the willingness of nonresistance. 

@lennart It feels amazing. Like what you described in your op, all the “time”. When you say ... “but”....  and then something which doesn’t feel good to you...stop and notice it doesn’t feel good...and choose to stop saying it / reinforcing what does not feel good. ♥️

[Forestluv]

16 hours ago, lennart said:

Hey guys I am curious about this question because I had a very important experience on MDMA last year where all my negative connotations about myself and others just fell away and the mind attacks where gone. 

This reminds me of an experience I had in Belize a couple years ago. I spent two weeks in an isolated village that was full of love and acceptance. The people had healthy diets - they grew their own fruits and vegetables and caught fish in the ocean. There was a man there from the U.S. that was a Wall Street Broker that had a nervous breakdown and went "insane". He was destined to live in an assisted-living home for the mentally disabled, yet found his way to this small community in Belize. After two years there, he was completely healthy again. That's how healing love and acceptance can be. For me, everyday was like a month of therapy.

One day, I was floating in the ocean and had an experience similar to your MDMA experience. My self dissolved. All negative connontations about myself dissolved. There were no more mind attacks. There was simply beingness. This beingness of Now was complete as it is. In the absence of self and mind attacks, the default state of being is what is happening now and it was beautiful. Yet then when I returned home, self-centered thoughts would re-appear. Yet I know had a new perspective. Because awareness "above" these self-centered thoughts arose, there was now an awareness observing them - noticing how they form and the impact on my mind and body. It took some practice and effort - that self-centered attachment/identification and anxiety can dissolve. For example, I would be doing Yin Yoga and reach deep levels of relaxation and "I returned" to that space of floating on the ocean in Belize. . . in my living room!!! I didn't need to spend thousands of dollars and take to weeks off to go to Belize! This was great news.

16 hours ago, lennart said:

During that experience I thought I feel enlightened now but I had no collapsing of my boundaries just a very decreased ego activity. Do you think enlightenment is a close to my experience but maybe even more intense?

 I would be mindful of creating a thing called "enlightenment" that I desire to attain, pursue and experience. In one sense, having an "enlightenment" goal can be motivating to do practice, yet in another sense - the mind/body can become desirous of escaping discomfort and experiencing bliss. This can lead to chasing experiences. For example, I may start thinking that "enlightenment" is that place in Belize, which is not Here and Now. Yet that place in Belize is always Here and Now. Certain practices and psychedelics can reveal this, yet it's very tempting to chase that and think "Here and now isn't it. I want a better here and now". 

For me, the process has included both: 1) To become aware of, and release, self-referential thought stories and 2) to become unconditionally present Here and Now, regardless of what is happening. 

[Javfly33]

More like realizing that negativity wasn´t evert there in the first place.

If you ask now..."But how come you say it´s not here? Yesterday i felt it and it was real as it gets!"

Yeah, that´s how illusion feels like reality. If you don´t have a comparison between illusion and actual reality, then all you got is illusion. Therefore illusion becomes reality