This Forum (what it actually is)

[TheAvatarState]

14 minutes ago, tedens said:

impose specific perspectives on someone?

You were imposed with all kinds of perspectives growing up. Some of them saved your life more than once. It's not necessary for every seeker to experience every pitfall, otherwise, why does the human race exist and why are we here if not to learn and streamline processes for others? And this isn't imposing a perspective, it's telling you to discover your own.

20 minutes ago, tedens said:

discuss it

I'm pointing to the fact that IT can't be discussed in any way, shape, or form. If you can't realize that any attempt to communicate IT is already one step removed from IT, then... don't think about it. Be IT.  What you're discussing is not IT, but ideas and concepts of IT that can only take you as far as you've become conscious of. 

Let me give an example. "You are God. You are the universe. All distinctions are being imagined, and this reality is just one infinite mind. You are pure consciousness. You are the dreamer." OK. Ask yourself if I described IT. My description produced IMAGES in your mind, but they are finite and biased. These images are so colored by a subject/object duality, that you cannot even begin to conceive of what I just wrote. Not only does it not make any sense, you'd think I was a lunatic if you hadn't had a mystical experience. My words got you no closer to IT. ANY concept or image is limited and dualistic by nature.

That being said, I think that certain images can act like training wheels, to make you look in certain places and not others. But their only function can be to MAKE YOU LOOK INSIDE, otherwise you're completely wasting your time. That process doesn't have to be a discussion. I saw myself waste so much time conceptualizing infinity, which is something this subforum feeds on. 

[mandyjw]

@TheAvatarState Nothing is wasted. There is no "time" to be wasted. If you are not willing to waste time, you won't awaken to this truth. If you see the outer as the inner, if you love others as yourself and they see what's not been seen in you and you in them, the mirroring effect can be quite enlightening. Without love their is no revelations, just butting heads. If solitude, meditation and time in nature, etc awakens you to love, that's what you need. If you only feel love in meditation, solitude and nature, then you may have to put yourself out there. It's a careful balance. Hopefully in the future, the need that this forum fills will change as more in person connections with those who understand this stuff will be easier to access. 

[TheAvatarState]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Nothing is wasted. There is no "time" to be wasted.

See, I can't argue with that

BUUUUTTTT... in this dream playing this relative avatar, I do have a certain amount of time. I think it's important to make sure other people aren't going around in circles in the same trap I did. It's like willingly leaving several bear traps next to your village, saying that was God's will. As a conscious person, you remove the traps so visitors don't step on them. That's part of why this forum exists. But I'm telling you a big trap is laying right here within the forum itself. I've noticed a few others that got it, and they left. There is nothing to gain by discussions of certain topics, it just creates swirls of delusion. The reason it persists is because people love jerking each other off. Enlightenment circle jerk. It's supposed to exist because it's here... but maybe it could change. That's all I'm saying. 

[mandyjw]

11 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

It's like willingly leaving several bear traps next to your village, saying that was God's will. 

Please forgive me for obnoxiously trumping your metaphor here, but to me it's like filling the well up so little Timmy won't fall it down it again, and not missing the water until the well is dry. 

11 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

 

I've noticed a few others that got it, and they left. There is nothing to gain by discussions of certain topics, it just creates swirls of delusion. The reason it persists is because people love jerking each other off. Enlightenment circle jerk. It's supposed to exist because it's here... but maybe it could change. That's all I'm saying. 

Again, love is the key ingredient for progression and evolution. If you don't love the subject and the person you're speaking to, no one is getting anywhere. Love is the ultimate state of "open-mindedness". Without that it's just butting heads. There's a lot of that here. There's a lot of people who come here assuming that only THEY will grow from a conversation. Or only THEY will teach someone else. When there's nothing left for THEM they leave. No real conversation is ever had in which both parties are not forever changed in some way. This forum does no exist for any "one's" individual growth, success or enlightenment. Things are not as they seem. The consciousness of this fact changes everything and is Love itself. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by mandyjw

[TheAvatarState]

@mandyjw I can butt heads with you and still love you.

[mandyjw]

@TheAvatarState That's a necessary combination for all great conversations, in my opinion. 

[TheAvatarState]

17 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Love is the ultimate state of "open-mindedness". Without that it's just butting heads. There's a lot of that here.

 

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

@TheAvatarState That's a necessary combination for all great conversations, in my opinion. 

So without it it's butting heads, with it is butting heads... but maybe just less of it 

[Rinne]

6 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

If the only thing to be said about consciousness and nonduality is to NOT get lost in thoughts, words, and concepts, then what the fuck is this sub-Forum here for? Trip reports?

?‍♂️

[LastThursday]

@TheAvatarState I hate to be that person (how devilish), but I can see the strong irony in the number of words you've used in this thread. Why do you use this sub-forum?

Personally, I find it a good way to orient myself on my spiritual path. Of course, I still have to do "The Work" with or without the sub-forum - and you are right in that sense. 

[LfcCharlie4]

Yeah, it's easy to get lost here, and I'm glad I didn't come on here as a seeker if I'm honest, it would be very confusing. 

I think the best use would be for seekers to ask questions they are struggling with, and then receive carefully constructed answers to that question. I have been prone to falling into traps of debating people and the likes, 

I only came on here solely for the purpose of helping seekers realize the truth of their own being, and I need to get back to realigning to that, I agree words can never speak the Absolute truth, however, when a burning question is answered, it can help a seeker relax their mind and get back to the work. 

Also, there will usually be questions around integration and Living this understanding as well, which have value in their own sense. 

Like you said though, anybody can answer, say someone's having problems Meditating for example. You could get an answer from a seeker, a partially awakened being, or a fully awakened being that are slightly different and leave the OP more confused than before. 

I'm not sure how we could optimize the Sub-Forum though, maybe be stricter with what questions can be asked? But, then deciding that could create issues, it's a tricky one!

This is why I truly think while at first it's great to get perspectives from several teachers to see who you resonate with, after a while, it becomes much better to simply find 1 teacher you resonate with and work with them ideally 1-1 or retreats and whatnot, and dive deep into the teachings until you feel you have gotten everything you need/ want from that particular teacher. 

But, at the end of the day WE are all our OWN guru and the true power lies within us. and the highest teaching will always be silence. Teaching, Words, contemplation etc are tools to allow us to 'get' to that silence. 

Eventually, all concepts and beliefs must be thrown in the fire until you are simply left with THIS as it is, right here, right NOW. However, getting there will often be paved with confusion and most are not ready for pure silence as a teaching, therefore, there is also value in answering with words and concepts in order to help people Get it, but yes, these words and concepts are the Finger, not the Moon itself. The moon itself can only be understood experientially! 

[LfcCharlie4]

This article by good old Rupert explains what I was trying to say well- 

'Words are the outer layer of the teaching,' 

https://non-duality.rupertspira.com/read/words_are_the_outer_layer_of_the_teaching_oasg107

It is where the words come from that matters most when the answer is coming from the presence, that can help people in ways we can not fathom. But, ultimately, as Rupert, says the words are not the Main vessel of the teaching, Presence is. The words are merely meant to help us, as pointers. 

Thank you for helping me realize I've been getting too caught up in words and concepts recently though when communicating with people on here! 

Ultimately, there is NOTHING we can say about awakening that is true, it is merely the questions that allow for the answers to rise in the presence, be spoken, and then fall back into Presence. 

And, as I always say, Silence/Transmissions will always be the highest teaching, direct transmission of this presence, sprinkled with the answering of our burning questions and blockages is what allowed me to truly see the nature of my own being. 

If I became a teacher, simply using words wouldn't be enough, trying to talk the Ego to death is a hard ask! Combining the power of Transmissions and answering the seekers concerns and questions on a 1-1 basis is what I find to be the most effective form of facilitating awakening. 

 

[dvdas]

I was a mental masturbator for 2 years, when I started seriously doing the work, I realized how full of bullshit I am and mostly everyone here is. 

Ita challenging to sit down and take your life seriously, it's much easier to open a platform and start debating about beliefs and words. 

[Pramit]

On 08/03/2020 at 11:18 PM, TheAvatarState said:

Of course this brings into question why it exists in the first place. Does anyone need this roundabout path? What if this sub-Forum was changed to a few pages of recourses instead, with a description of why an interactive forum on these topics only creates more delusion? What if we stopped debating consciousness and saved others and ourselves from further distraction? What if the forum evolved?

For the record, I think the forums on life purpose, relationships, government, spiral Dynamics, etc. are great, as these are relative topics. This site must continue to be a high consciousness beacon of hope. But I think it's time to reconsider how we treat certain topics that transcend logic, reason, and even words themselves. If anyone can log in and be the pointer, then what message is that sending to newcomers and seekers?

I don't know about the current state of the forums. But back in..2016/17, I got a lot of good insights from the forums and from users whom I sent PM's to. I think the real trap is unfortunately the lack of knowledge about yourself. People think that doing these activities (meditation, etc) will give you that, but what you also need to do is study psychology, especially social psychology. For example, the concept of cognitive dissonance and fundamental attribution error is something you REALLY NEED in this day and age. 

I read a good article here about the problem with not having words or concepts that can effectively "capture" meaning and emotion: https://aeon.co/ideas/hypocognition-is-a-censorship-tool-that-mutes-what-we-can-feel

As the article says, a lot of our understanding of human nature relies on knowing the words to describe situations and feelings, even behavioral patterns. The same goes for mental illness, when you know what you have, it gives you an illusion of power over it (and sometimes real power).

When you discuss something over forums, you need to be honest. Questioning and not overly argumentative. The goal is to improve your knowledge, not to convince the other person. If a bunch of people follow this, then new users will look at it and (in their efforts to fit in) copy it. So this is something that regular posters (especially the mods and leo) need to do - but I haven't really seen this. Rather than telling off "dirty materialists", try to make the forums a better place by not threatening to ban those who don't follow the same ideology. And definitely warn those who cry out "ban ban ban" against users who raise counterpoints against spirituality as you guys practice it (these people are rare anyway). 

[Lelouch Lamperouge]

Mods are overly dogmatic. Free thought is repressed. Whatever doesn’t fit into traditional nondual worldview is banned, repressed. All talks about love, yet tyranny prevails.

[LastThursday]

On 10/03/2020 at 6:30 PM, Lelouch Lamperouge said:

yet tyranny prevails.

No it doesn't.

Like any good society the forum needs to be circumscribed and have it's own rules and regulations and policing.

This forum is actually very democratic, tolerant, free and quickly weeds out disruptive users.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

This forum is a great tool but also a huge distraction at the same time. You just gotta stay conscious about how you are using it. 

[SOUL]

On 3/8/2020 at 10:48 AM, TheAvatarState said:

You know what would happen if a bunch of enlightened masters had a forum only for discussing the absolute? They would shut it down

Yea, because there aren't the ages worth including this current one filled with 'masters' talking to seekers and even cashing in on people listening to them talk. So they scamming?

[luckieluuke]

@TheAvatarState I agree with most of what you are saying. Which is why I try to not not to spend much time here, althou the drama of reality can be fun to engage in
However doesnt the forum guidelines and even more "non duality wars not allowed here" warn about this stuff? But maybe it should be added to that how this forum can be a kind of trap since nonduality cannot be expressed in language.

 

[Lento]

There's nothing to talk about.

[ryuzaki]

I think if you shut down this sub forum, people will still want to talk about this stuff so it will just appear in the other sub forums. it might be better to have it separate so people can decide to indulge in or stay away from it.

Furthermore I think it's ok to "waste" time.