How do you Justify consuming Animal Products?

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Leo gives advice here and thinks of himself as god AND eats meat AND is aware of the mental and physical torture of all parties involved, including the workers.

How do you feel about that?

@Chakra Lion

[Chakra Lion]

17 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

No you don't. If you did you would realize

You have not realized this yet. Clearly. Some day you will. I am not special neither do you so you have the same right as I do to have access to this paradigm shift.

 

I think it is the other way round: you cannot claim to be an enlightened soul if you still care about small stuff like the suffering of some cows.

Remember: nothing matters it's all small stuff.

Nothing (like in nothing.)

You are funny. How do you claim to know anything about me by a few words. You couldn't even imagine my life, my past, the experiences I've had. I know i'm God, and I don't need you to tell me that I don't know that because I care about the 'small stuff' like 300 animals getting slaughtered every second for your little pleasure traps. You are looking right past the issue, and making this about me. Like I give a fuck about what you think of me. I am asking a question, not seeking self help advice. 

You cannot claim to be enlightened if you care about the suffering of others? Are you serious? How careless have you become? My whole life I've only cared about myself. Now that I opened my heart to care for the world, and to make sure that love is flowing through even the smallest beings, you tell me that its wrong. Wake up dude. Your truth that nothing matters is your own perception. You are wrong and choosing one side of the coin, and telling me that there is only one side of the coin. 

5 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

This thread is also the perfect example of how an ego thinks it's higher in the spiral than what it really is. A green ego thinking it is turquoise.

Just like like Leo says: 2 levels ahead.

Why are you trying to put me on a level, telling me i'm this or that, when its so irrelevant to the post, and really egoistic. 

And Leo is just another person who isn't someone special or unique. So whatever his choices are, he has to face them himself. If he knows hes hurting others, and he continues to do so, then I think hes making mistakes. But what do I know, i'm just a low level fool. 

[Arcangelo]

2 hours ago, Chakra Lion said:

but some of you have your head so high in the clouds that its dangerous.

Dangerous for who?

[Arcangelo]

6 hours ago, Moreira said:

that reality is a illusion, a game. As a game, nothing  matters, nothing is right or wrong because in the first place is imaginary, a though created by God's mind.

Have you realized this? Yes or no?

Edited March 8, 2020 by Arcangelo
content

[Arcangelo]

 

9 minutes ago, Chakra Lion said:

Why are you trying to put me on a level

Oh man this spiral dynamic sh@t helps me a lot to understand reality.

If you want you can loose that unhealthy dogmatic ideologue green you got in there Lion. Just a suggestion.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Arcangelo
GREEN

[Arcangelo]

12 minutes ago, Chakra Lion said:

Are you serious?

Dead serious

13 minutes ago, Chakra Lion said:

How careless have you become?

Imagine realizing

9 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

that reality is a illusion, a game. As a game, nothing  matters, nothing is right or wrong because in the first place is imaginary, a though created by God's mind.

Do you have to ask again?

 

It's important for you to read Moreira's post, he is above you spiritually speaking. That's why I quote him every time.

Would you be open to the possibility that we know something you don't?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

People are misusing the term “nothing matters” in this thread as if non-duality is nihilism.

No right or wrong doesn’t mean conscious people don’t act in conscious ways. This transcends morality, If all is one, you treat everyone as if they are an extension of you, not because of a moral code, a carrot or a stick.

People are fast to say “nothing matters” but if they were the one being tortured or abused im sure you would quickly drop that way of thinking when your own ass is on the line.

[SerpaeTetra]

Op-how do you differentiate between how you treat animals vs insects vs micro-organisms?

[tenta]

9 hours ago, Chakra Lion said:

Tell me what you think? How do you justify buying animal products? How could you think you are connected to the source, when you are killing the source?  

Just a nonsense demonization.

You believe buying a finished product is the same as doing the process behind meat production, that torture is involved, that you can go vegan without unnatural supplements etc. because that's what youtube vegans have told you... look into supply and demand more, and you'll see your statement is not true, buying meat from a store doesn't mean you're supporting the industry because the store would have the meat anyway.

You didn't stop the evil by becoming vegan.

[Preety_India]

@Chakra Lion  I agree with you on certain aspects. A person who seeks enlightenment and spiritual growth becomes more aware of the suffering of others because he begins to see himself in others. He starts his journey towards becoming an Empath. 

So you are right about the suffering part. A man who becomes more spiritually aware and conscious will also become conscious of the suffering of others and will fight or struggle to reduce it or not contribute in anyway towards its prevalence. 

But when it comes to eating meat, the situation is slightly tilted. Most people don't see the suffering in front of their eyes and they are not the ones inflicting it. So it's difficult for them to be empathetic. 

We are part animal part human, part reptilian part human, part survival part philanthropy. So our animal side resists the thought to give up meat. 

I think the focus should be more on the unethical and improper treatment of animals more than the consumption. If I said that consumers do not contribute to this suffering at all, I would be lying. They do. 

So there should be a compromise. A compromise that will involve the proper treatment of animals and also consumer satisfaction for nutrition and health. 

That's the only way to deal with this controversial problem. 

This is an age old classic problem of the conflict between showing empathy for animals and ensuring nutritional survival needs. 

I hope one day there will be a satisfactory solution to this other than just giving up meat.

 

[remember]

@Chakra Lion as long as people consume it they can’t accept to be murderers, or more so even canibals the ego manages to find excuses and denies. there is an ego mechanism which prevents them from realizing on what they are chewing on or make any conscious experience of it. i was the same, i think meat like sugar is an addiction which is even more severe than alcohol as the denial and self justification is even bigger and the negative body load not that obvious, as it usually creates issues in the colon or with the immune system or the cardiovascular system.the bigger the shadow therefore. i guess that’s what @Osaid was referring to.

even leo did not get over that ego survival mode, even though he understands the mechanism. i think he tries to be vegetarian but that might have changed again - i also would find it hard to not eat dairy if i was not vegan for health reasons. the beautiful thing about that - all the inner conflict i was not aware of, chewing up other beings not only happiness but all that they are in an endless cycle of torture and murder - fell away instantly. it’s not only the physical load i feel freed of it’s also the spiritual. ohm

Edited March 8, 2020 by remember

[electroBeam]

You're not consuming animal products, because you're literally, frankly speaking, not the body. The body, within the relative domain of the universe, is consuming animal products. The chicken's body gets destroyed in the process, but the chicken does not die. Having the body justify why it eats chicken, plants, or anything you/god misidentifies with is like having a car engine justify why it uses fuel. This is part of an overarching design of the universe. 

Your moral dilemma comes from your refusal to accept the creation you have made, are. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by electroBeam

[remember]

well corpse eaters... i still try to find them in second tier.

Edited March 8, 2020 by remember

[Moreira]

8 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Lets establish that morality is a human invention, im sure we agree on that. But, as a conscious individual, how does murdering people win you any game? 

Enlightenment doesnt convert you automatically into a lovely kind person.

There are 2 types of enlightened people:

-Good people who reach englightenment after years of meditation work(yogis, buddhists), or sudden enlightenment cases, or thru pychedellic shortcuts like Leo.

-Bad people who achieve enlightenment states thru dark practices like satanism, rituals, kabalah, black magic.

Well the illuminati are the second ones. And basically how they work is like that:

If your biggest fear (limitations objectively) is hurting innocent people, they force you to DO it-> kill innocent babies, rape them

If your biggest aversion is gay sex, they force you to have gay sex. Overcome all limitations created by the ego. 

Hope you understand the point.

Knowing that everything is a game good people feel an alleviation become more lighthearted, bad people just have even more urges to succeed in the matrix because they know HOW.

[Chakra Lion]

13 hours ago, tenta said:

- buying meat from a store doesn't mean you're supporting the industry because the store would have the meat anyway.

You didn't stop the evil by becoming vegan.

Think about that some more. Do you understand supply and demand? 

11 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Your moral dilemma comes from your refusal to accept the creation you have made, are. 

The creation that exists is accepted. This does not mean that you stop caring to improve the well being of the inhabitants of that world. That's like saying that people who have a moral dilemma with the holocaust just need to accept the creation. 

 

14 hours ago, Arcangelo said:

Oh man this spiral dynamic sh@t helps me a lot to understand reality.

If you want you can loose that unhealthy dogmatic ideologue green you got in there Lion. Just a suggestion.

You are such a hypocrite its cringey... 

Telling me I need to lose my unhealthy dogmatic ideologue by using your spiral dynamic ideologue which is as dogmatic as anything else. 

[Forestluv]

From a framework that it is unethical to cause suffering to sentient beings, it is hard to justify eating meat - especially factory farming.

There were times I was in in the sangha chanting with my fellow Buddhists about saving all sentient beings from suffering. And then they would serve meat dishes for lunch. It seemed like such a disconnect. Yet self-centered human desires go deep. . . . Peter Singer did a lot of good work in this area.

[electroBeam]

43 minutes ago, Chakra Lion said:

The creation that exists is accepted. This does not mean that you stop caring to improve the well being of the inhabitants of that world. That's like saying that people who have a moral dilemma with the holocaust just need to accept the creation.  

You can do whatever you want, without justification. Now that the creation is accepted, and the moral dilemma resolved, you can feel ok killing animals or not. Whether you do or do not depends on levels of awareness, not on justifications and morality.

[Forestluv]

34 minutes ago, iridule said:

We can acknowledge complicity and forgive ourselves/not judge ourselves.

That’s great from a human-centric perspective. Now I get to eat meat gult-free. Yet what about from the perspective of sentient beings to whom I am contributing harm? If I continue to eat meat guilt-free - that’s great for me - yet how would this reduce the amount of suffering I am contributing to?

[Scholar]

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Scholar

[Derek White]

Being spiritual and being good are two separate endeavours. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Derek White