Norwegian politician gives away her salary

[Dwarniel]

On 6.4.2020 at 10:26 AM, w4read said:

It's kinda interesting because when you look at the norwegian system as a whole it looks very green from the outside, and it's tempting to believe that norwegians in general are at stage green. This I believe is far from the case. Actually what many norwegians value more than anything is independence, which is a very orange value. We are actually the people who value independence more than any other country in the world.

So what you basically have is a green system that is supposed to take care of everyone through welfare solutions like free hospital care and education, that contains within itself many independent individuals which are probably more at stage orange than anything else. Actually the system is created SO that people can be independent.

Interesting thoughts here.

I don't disagree with you. You are absolutely correct in your observation about scandinavians being very independent and individualistic. Which is in direct opposition with greens collectivism. I have read many interesting theories about why this is, many of them include the scandinavian climate. In the terms of the cold weather seperating us more and making us more asocial. I see this in myself as well. My values and ethics are a 100% green, and I get triggered by orange and react to it (fallacy of stage green i know..) - But at the same time I find myself fiercly individualistic minded, asocial, and keep to myself most of the time. I observe the same tendencies in my norwegian friends - expecially when it comes to the US and the democrat primaries. I have yet to find a norwegian friend that doesn't endorse Bernie Sanders. I have yet to find a norwegian friend that's not saddened by Biden winning the primaries.

I absolutely think you're right when it comes to a big portion of scandinavia having orange tendencies when it comes to individualism - But I do think we lean to the greener side, even yellow in some cases. Like, one can't deny the fact that the politics probably reflect the ethics of the majority of the population? or? I'm not sure if it's too far out to beleive that the spiral stages can look different to some degree from culture to culture and climate to climate? I might be wrong, but I actually beleive geography has some say in it.

 

On 6.4.2020 at 10:49 AM, Hansu said:

I wonder if the motivation behind building this system has in fact been to increase independency rather than increase wellbeing of the people? Or was the motivator wellness, and the possibility for high independence is just a side effect we got with the system?

Now that I think about it, Im taking the system for granted and I dont even know how it became what it has become. I need to do some research

SAME.

 

On another note, I really appreciate this thread for making us think, not defend or attack.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Dwarniel

[w4read]

@Hansu @Dwarniel Interesting thoughts. I feel like most norwegians are in a place where they're able to see the bigger picture in terms of what is needed to be done when the stakes are high. So, for example when there is a crisis like the corona virus we're experiencing right now, people are really able to step up and take responsibility and obey the rules for the greater cause. When it comes to politics we're able to vote on the parties that will make the best system for everyone. So, often in these cases, when we see that there's need for collective responsibility we usually take that responsibility and do what is best for the system as a whole. I guess this mentality  is also reflected in the "dugnad" tradition where we once in while meet and do something that needs to be done with the help of everyone that is involved or affected. 

However, in the day to day life I really struggle to see the same mentality, and I'm wondering if the green spirit, when it happens, is coming from a place of obligation rather then motivation. BUT, as a road to a stage green society I think it's a good start that the system in and of itself is green. I'm really curious to see if this crisis pushes us more to the green if it turns out the welfare system collapses and can't take care of the people in the same way anymore. Will people then be able to take the right actions in this high stake situation?