Spiral dynamics orange/green shift

[mihau]

Hi,

as you can see, I have an account here for a while - since 2017. It was a time, when I started to search information about meditation and I did find it. I started meditation habit, a bit of mindfulness, fighting my addictions and eating healthier (including a version of Leo's soup ;) ). I did meditation for almost two years, for about 20 to 60 minutes a day. I even had a 3 days solo retreat, which was a failure - I wasn't ready for such isolation and on a day 3 I drove to nearby town just to relax in presence of other people.

By that time I've worked in corporation for several years and was pretty, as I thought, successful. Not to the point of huge wealth, but well beyond average. For a while I had some serious issues in my relationship and it came to an end after 8 years of being togeather. I admit that it took a great toll on me, I stopped meditating and reverted to some addictions. 

After some time I got back to normal, as we always do, but I was already different. My partner was very materialistic, always wanting more, now I saw this clearly. I also saw bit of this in myself and it got me into minimalism. I just saw that accumulating more wealth, more goods wasn't satisfying and that always some new target appeared. My new flat Is quite minimalistic, got rid of a lot of stuff, I began to meditate again, eliminate addictions and got back to eating healthy. And this time I began to do yoga, normal western hatha yoga and a bit of pranayama. When I do something of my own will, I usually give 100% of my capabilities and so was with yoga. It helped me to cope after break up, so over the course of 5 months my practice grew to 5-7 times a week, from 1,5 to 4,5 hours of practice a day. I got some individual lessons, practiced a bit of acroyoga and got to know teachers better, spending some time with them after practicing. My diet became vegetarian, not that I pity poor animals, but as far as I now know meat is not so healthy, especially meat found in most stores. When organization like WHO says that meat is carcinogenic (in greater amounts), well I do take heed. Besides I was curious if I'm not addicted to meat, which I'm not, I don't miss eating meat at all.

For about two weeks now I have regressed: I had problems meditating, it was hard to do yoga on my own at home, got back to some addictions (coffee, sweets) and overall I felt down. Recently in search of motivation I got back to actualized.org. I watched episode on ego backlash and it opened my eyes on what's happening to me. After I watched that episode youtube proposed me with spiral dynamics episode and that was... whoaaaaa. By now I have seen whole playlist and it blew my mind.

Now I see that, I was totally orange: atheistic, materialistic, beliving in science, libertarian, loving competition, focused on results. It's hard for me to tell, what pushed me. Was it meditation, that I started to better myself, to get better results in work and life or was it my relationship? Both? Either way I see I have changed a lot, and now that I know about ego backlash, I know I pushed myself too much, too fast in last five months. Now that I know of spiral dynamics, I know at what fields I have a lot work to do. It wasn't enlightenment, but it was enlightening. It's still new to me and strange. If someone few years ago told me I would even consider going vegetarian or not make laugh at ecological ideas in industry... well, I wouldn't believe it.

I just wanted to share this, with you. I think it helps me to overcome my ego backlash and hopefully to return on tracks.

Just now one question poped in my mind: What positive values do you think one can get from stage blue? I see a lot of good qualities in orange. I chuckled a lot when I heard of green stage talking and sharing, not being able to get into action, to get results. I know that type, but I still fail to see qualities in blue. I think I'll watch that episode once agian, meanwhile feel free to tell me what you think.

And just a word, I'm not blind to some things Leo is saying or doing, but I don't want to judge those words and actions. I see and feel how I am changing and I think it's for the better. Right now I do things I wouldn't approve earlier, who knows what will I do in a few years?

[Roy]

Yep! Development has it's ups and downs. You're going to recede sometimes into previous patterns and addictions, then break out of them again. It's just apart of the game and you have to learn to accept them and just have a vision for the future. Remember you have a lifetime to develop, it's tempting to skip stuff and stages but you need to take everything as it comes and integrate/master it as you go.

Stage Blue healthy qualities I would say are;

- Putting your ego and personal wants aside to respect order/laws.

- Being responsible and staying true to commitments.

- Serving something larger than yourself. The individual will get benefits from serving the group. Example - Military (functions better with teamwork)

- Healthy respect for authority. Not being a disturbance or rebel.

- Having a solid sense of morality.

Those are just some. If you have a couple hours Leo explains it well;

 

[fridjonk]

That's awesome man! 

You're doing great, and showing a lot of yellow values. Addictions tend to come as backlashes when the ego starts to drift away. For me, I usually just play the addictions out if they come back for a week or two. After that, it's easier getting back up on that horse again.

Many don't know that stage blue is actually the first stage to inhabit some of the heart chakra, which explains their deep passion and love for law and community, but only THEIR! community, you better abide by it or you'll be thrown out of the pack. 

I could not recommend the book "Religion Of Tomorrow" by Ken Wilber enough for you. It's essentially the only book you need for now. Treat it like your bible. It goes way deeper than Spiral-Dynamics and explains all the traps and pitfalls, integrations, addictions, allergies, etc. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by fridjonk

[mihau]

@fridjonk Thanks. I'll definetly read that book and see

[remember]

sorry to swoosh in, but purple and even red are more about the heart chakra than blue - blue is mostly about mind and control and tries to control emotions through morals and conceptual rules, which are ordered in a strictly hierarchical system. in a healthy form blue is a non dysfunctional structure which preserves order like a state apparatus.

minimalism can be super blue because it’s based on structural elements.

and this comment was also blue.

Edited March 7, 2020 by remember

[BigDogRaven]

@mihau This I can relate to. I am somewhat new to Actualized.org, discovered it in Nov 2019. I have been going full out on personal development since. I have watch many of Leo's very informative videos. I recently watched the SD videos. This was very eye opening to me. Made me realize I have such a long way to go. I currently see much blue and orange in me, very little green. So much of what green is will be tough to get to. I feel confident that heading this way will be needed. It's all a bit intimidating. Overcoming my fears will be high on my list. Mostly I am now embarrassed about my level on the SD scale. Thx for this post. 

[fridjonk]

@remember They can not be more about the heart chakra since blue has been through those stages, and transcended and included those values. 

Purple operates mostly from the 2nd chakra, while red is on the 3rd.

Stage blue is the first one to leave from egocentric, and emerge into ethnocentric, to take the mind of other. 

[mihau]

@remember Could you explain me in more details correlation between spiral stages and chakras? Maybe, if you have some time, it would be worth creating new topic? I have found topic 'Universal Metamodel' by @Laurens. It's interesting, but a bit of explanation to this chart would be great. You can click 'Viewpoint 2: Chakra', but I must say I disagree with the idea that maturity is strictly connected to the age of a person. Any other thoughts?

@BigDogRaven Well, if you go 'full out on personal development' definitely watch episode on ego backlash and be prepared. I'm neither advanced, but I can recommend getting to know some green stage people, maybe orange if you really have that much blue in you. That's for you to decide. Just get to know them and spend time with them. For me that's fun  There is nothing to be scared of and there is nothing to be embarrassed for. As I see it SD is a model for you to grow yourself, not to compare to others to determine who's superior.

Edited March 7, 2020 by mihau

[remember]

@fridjonk that’s in a sense a static picture of it. but onthogenesis is not exactly phylogenesis although in a sense it is.

there is a big difference between the concept of transcending and what transcending really is. toxic blue always tries to suppress the lower stages and even in healthy has a tendency to fall back into red to maintain mind over matter.

Edited March 8, 2020 by remember

[remember]

@mihau that’s something i worked out for myself - i don’t think it’s wise to do this from a blue state of being. it’s like everything else just some theory if you don’t learn it by heart. do chakra work and you might find out yourself. that’s the way to go.

but i can have a look and discuss about that theory.

Edited March 8, 2020 by remember

[remember]

@mihau do you mean this?

https://empowergurus.com/universal-metamodel/

nice but not right - the will to put something dynamic into a static form is also often quite blue and usually only works out correctly at a higher up level.

[fridjonk]

@remember Yeah, I was more so talking about healthy blue, not toxic.  

I wouldn't call toxic blue, a true blue; more so red in progress with red shadows, addictions and allergies. 

[remember]

@fridjonk  - can you try to play again a little with the chakras maybe what you think is the heart of blue is already another spiral stage existing within blue. just because you are a mind person does not mean you are not already tapping into other fields of the spiral. there is never just one homogeneous population in one historical period or in one tribe. i think i understand what you are referring to. but i also think the chart is not representative. they put them just next to each other while the body is not a human chart which follows a linear count. that would be easy then wouldn’t it? 

if i would try to feel blue at heart - how empty would it be? the heart is usually more seen as free and without structure - so in some sense blue must be the opposite of heart chakra, but it is not mind - it’s the controller part of mind.

[fridjonk]

@remember I find it best to think of the spiral as a big swimming pool filled with all the colors, with some mixing into others at some points. I'd say every color has some piece of the "Idea" of the heart chakra, but are not there physically. As in their kundalini energy has not risen. A mother at stage purple has a deep love for her child. 

But it also depends on how one defines the heart chakra. If you're talking about it as a physical state of being or a place where one taps into love and connection. Since the universe is driven only by love and goodness it would be incorrect to say that those lower stages don't contain any love. 

It can get a bit tricky when mixing the chakras with the spiral colors, but I'd say we're on the same page. It's just a matter of interpretation and such. 

[remember]

@fridjonk yep, it is - and a matter of global understanding. every spiral colour can be perceived as heart chakra. but it is not the heart chakra itself - there is only one which really is in the sense of spiritual development. it’s not only a logical thing. i’m not in the position to teach that. also stage purple itself is more loving in many cases than stage blue - it’s not only the mother child relationship you are pointing out here, it’s the cradle of humanity. red also has a proud heart, because of so much solarplexus energy - but blue is the first to tap into mind over matter.

(the problem here is that in many cases a fall back into red happens on a rather regular basis from blue - don’t forget blue is not turquoise. i try to only keep the structural element of blue and stay rather dynamic than static)

Edited March 8, 2020 by remember

[fridjonk]

@remember Right on 

[mihau]

@remember I asked you to elaborate on this, because you mentioned something I didn't know and it sounds interesting. Yes, the link is what I found searching forum for topic you mentioned, before I asked you to tell me more about this. I said I disagree with ideas in 'Viewpoint 2: Chakra' on that page. Now when you say that connection between spiral stages and chakras is dynamic the more it sound interesting to me...