I think Messiah Complex needs to addressed more

[SBB4746]

I don’t recall many people on here (even Leo) ever talking about the trap of a Messiah complex happening after having awakening experiences.

It’s surprising because it’s probably the most common and dangerous trap people find themselves in. Just reckon it needs to be talked about here more. Especially when Leo keeps advising a young audience to chemically induce mystical experiences with the intention of discovering they are god.. People need to realise that after a premature or forced awakening the ego can be inflated greatly. 

[Preety_India]

 

Gosh, I can't get over your face. Can I pay you a compliment? You look very handsome. 

 

Have a great day 

 

 

[SBB4746]

@Preety_India hahaha thanks, you look quite nice yourself. I decided to remove my pic as I don't think it necessary to show myself to the world..

Edited March 5, 2020 by SBB4746

[Arzack]

If you think psychedelics are an easy tool you have little to no experience with them, they will literally bring you to hell (purgatory, it's not eternal hell which doesn't exist... thank God) at the right/high dosages. Martin Ball is an indisputable example that after "going to hell with them" a bunch of times (how many depends on your "soul age") you attain liberation.

This is not to shit on your "messiah-complex" argument, I too suspect that Leo and many other are on such ego-trip, and I don't judge them for it, it's just another trap of the many people fall in to. The solution to any of these traps is KNOWLEDGE, which is lacking in the current "spiritual environment" because of multiple reasons, too long to write here. Anyway if my arguments brought even a little bit of doubt in your own "current knowledge" of spirituality I advice you to check this website where you find all sources on which I base my "apparently arrogant viewpoint" on: https://www.reddit.com/r/speedruntonirvana/wiki/phase3

Edited March 5, 2020 by Arzack

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, SBB4746 said:

It’s surprising because it’s probably the most common and dangerous trap

Could you explain a bit more what you think the danger is? And why you think it's bad?

Edited March 5, 2020 by LastThursday

[LfcCharlie4]

@Johnny5 Fucking thank you. I'm glad people are starting to notice this.

 @SBB4746 Great post!

Look no further than Bentino Massano and Mooji for this because they're so enlightened they don't see the wrong in harming or abusing others...sexually or however else. They're not the doer and they're so enlightened so no issue right? 

People keep thinking I'm some psychedelic hater, I'm not 

If you want to read about this in more detail - http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/inflation.html

http://www.kheper.net/topics/gurus/IMZ_guru.html

Reading these articles really helped me understand this issue. 

 

[ttm]

1 hour ago, Arzack said:

The solution to any of these traps is KNOWLEDGE, which is lacking in the current "spiritual environment" because of multiple reasons, too long to write here.

And even more important is HONESTY. It does not even require pre-existing knowledge, but it is still required when applying knowledge on oneself. 

7 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Look no further than Bentino Massano -- for this because they're so enlightened they don't see the wrong in harming or abusing others...sexually or however else.

Every time I try to recall his name, Benito Mussolini comes to mind. Coincidence?!

But, Leo has himself spoke in one of his videos that because he is Love, he could do any harm to anybody and it would still be pure Love. Even if he became the most evil person on planet, it would be still be fine, because everything that happens is pure Love. Or something closely along those lines. Although it's true in the absolute sense, some might argue that formulating it like that, i.e. creating that concept, might lead to that kind of behavior if there still was confusion between concepts and what is.

[LfcCharlie4]

@ttm Yeah, I see his point absolutely speaking, but that's not going to help anyone relatively, and that's where we can get into some murky waters. Knowing reality is love, and embodying love is 2 different things, just because you could do that, doesn't mean someone who is Self-Realized and awakened to love would, to be, one of the greatest embodiments of our recent history is Ramana Maharshi. I bet you won't hear off sex or abuse scandals from his ashram anytime soon  

[VeganAwake]

There isn't any certain way anything needs to be... and no one can predict how things will turn out... and the opinion of how things turned out, would be just that, an opinion.

Someone who believes they are God may have an amazing life.(but what is a great life, it's just an opinion).. one person may believe a great life is being single and having sex with thousands of partners... another might believe it's being happily married with a great family and kids.

Some of what I considered the worst experiences at the time, I look back on and think wow what an incredible journey and amazing learning opportunity.

There's no telling the outcome of a path... therefore whatever path is chosen is the right one unless you believe it isn't..

" The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent everything becomes clear and undisguised. Make the smallest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart. If you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against. The struggle of what one likes and what one dislikes is the disease of the mind"

- Sengstan, Hsin Hsin Ming

Suffering is caused by the resistance to what IS.

I've heard it said to "take the middle way"... but what is "the middle way"... everybody's middle way or middle path is different lol.

Any way you choose, becomes your way. And even if you didn't choose it it's still your way.

The perception of the situation is what makes all the difference in the world.

And I have a secret ...perception can be changed infinitely.

Perception is your god-given power ❤

 

 

[Endangered-EGO]

There is nothing wrong with the messiah complex, Leo knows how cults work and doesn't intend to start one. I doubt that Leo would go down the rabbit hole of messiah complex.

[Harikrishnan]

Leo starting a cult will be awesome. I hope he starts a ashram where disciples are given psychedelics. 

Leo here take my money and properties. ?

La la la lala la

[DreamScape]

Jesus had the messiah complex.

[electroBeam]

16 hours ago, SBB4746 said:

I don’t recall many people on here (even Leo) ever talking about the trap of a Messiah complex happening after having awakening experiences.

It’s surprising because it’s probably the most common and dangerous trap people find themselves in. Just reckon it needs to be talked about here more. Especially when Leo keeps advising a young audience to chemically induce mystical experiences with the intention of discovering they are god.. People need to realise that after a premature or forced awakening the ego can be inflated greatly. 

Whats the difference between someone who wants to change and revolutionise the world and messiah complex?

Doesnt everyone want to change the world? Like politicians?

 

Everyone wants to change the world and put their mark on it. Thats the essence of reproduction. You reproduce because you want to spread value - specific to you - whether thats kids or making a youtube channel. 

If Leo had an extreme, unhealthy level of messiah complex, he would be doing a lot more than being a talking head to a niche audience. He would be running for president, starting osho type cults, venturing into bigger audiences.

Leo does have a strong sense of conviction that his ideas are right, but what leader doesnt? and how is that unhealthy?

I think there's a fine line between being a leader and having messiah complex, and its easy to confuse Leo for one rather than the other.

Edited March 6, 2020 by electroBeam

[Harikrishnan]

40 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Whats the difference between someone who wants to change and revolutionise the world and messiah complex?

Doesnt everyone want to change the world? Like politicians?

 

Everyone wants to change the world and put their mark on it. Thats the essence of reproduction. You reproduce because you want to spread value - specific to you - whether thats kids or making a youtube channel. 

If Leo had an extreme, unhealthy level of messiah complex, he would be doing a lot more than being a talking head to a niche audience. He would be running for president, starting osho type cults, venturing into bigger audiences.

Leo does have a strong sense of conviction that his ideas are right, but what leader doesnt? and how is that unhealthy?

I think there's a fine line between being a leader and having messiah complex, and its easy to confuse Leo for one rather than the other.

+1

 

16 hours ago, SBB4746 said:

People need to realise that after a premature or forced awakening the ego can be inflated greatly. 

I dont think thats not case with everyone. My ego didnt inflate and after every trip i am becoming more grounded and is more accepting of reality as it is. And i dont think there is a premature or forced awakening they are all thought stories. One who has acceptance and letting go skill easily progress through the journey. For that we start with basic psychedelic like lower dose mushroom, lsd and then slowly progress to 5 meo and all. With low dose mushroom,lsd and all you learn the skill of acceptance and letting go then when u reach 5 meo and all you will be ready. Its not a forced awakening for one who use chemicals wisely.

[outlandish]

1 hour ago, electroBeam said:

Whats the difference between someone who wants to change and revolutionise the world and messiah complex?

I think the difference is that someone who wants to change to world is doing it because there's work to be done, whereas the person with the messiah complex puts their self at the center of that work to be done. 

In the first case the work is central, in the messiah case the self is central.

The person who is able to put their self to the side, and place the change as the central element will always be more effective.

[electroBeam]

@outlandish so Trump is a messiah complex?

[Derek White]

If you think he has messiah complex Just because you disagree with him on God and because he says no other teacher is talking about what he has realized than you’re the one who has a big ego.

He could be earning way more money and subscribers if he wanted to. He’s not forcing you to accept what he’s saying. He’s not even meeting you. On top of that he went on a break.

He’s not trying to save anybody, he’s just a guy recording his spiritual journey.

Stay humble, you don’t know what his experience is. Some of you talk like you know absolutely everything about the nature of reality. 

[Derek White]

@electroBeam I agree with you but I think he’s way beyond reproduction now. That episode was aimed at lower states of consciousness. Also I don’t think he has ‘conviction in his ideas’ as you say. Those aren’t ideas, those are his experiences put into words. Like someone describing a rainbow isn’t presenting ideas per say. 

[SBB4746]

Urgh.. theres a lot of people who expect replies and misinterpret where I'm coming from. Don't get me wrong, Leo has helped me enormously. I've been watching most of his videos for years and he was the one who introduced me to the path to begin with. I went hardcore with the enlightenment & meditation stuff to point it was my number 1 priority in life. The reason I want to warn people about the Messiah complex is because when I look back over the last few years I can see that I was in one for a long period of time. Especially after the first awakening experience. Also many enlightened teachers have gone through it themselves and speak about it. I sort of feel like its a inevitable phase to go through for a lot of people, but hopefully just giving a warning makes some people reflect/introspect and get through it sooner. Its a tricky phase because the ego loves power and status. It will even tell it self that its not being superior so that continue live the false dream. 

Also yes, the "wanting" to change the world is a function of the ego. Once you see through these desires and wanting tendencies they naturally fall into emptiness, love and innocence. Another flowing force sort of takes over. One that doesn't have a particular agenda but that goes one way or another because it feels right (its all intuitive).

Edited March 6, 2020 by SBB4746

[SBB4746]

@Johnny5 Yes spot on. Seriously just listen to Adyshanti (or Mojo, Rubert Spira or Eckhart Tolle) enough and it will strip the ego right out of you. Compare their energy and teaching style to Leo's... whats the difference. I never see any of these people projecting anything. They are simply being humble and having joy helping others. They give advice when they are asked... They are not projecting or claiming  to have had the best mystical experience or whatever. 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by SBB4746