Is Leo Manipulating Us?

[kieranperez]

Awareness of YOUR own manipulations is what you’d be better off being concerned about and looking into.

[Sahil Pandit]

@kieranperez good point 

[MarkusSweden]

The fact that Leo allow this thread should be proof enough that he's NOT manipulating us. After all, being manipulated is always a choice. You can't be manipulated unless you choose to be that. 

 

[WaterfallMachine]

I would separate manipulation from influence. Manipulation gives off a very cold heartless intent like a conman. Influence can be something like a doctor advising his or her patient to eat more healthy.

I never see Leo saying people should believe him blindly like some kind of cult. In my several months of being on this forum mostly lurking and following his videos, I've heard many times him telling people to question his ideas. His ideas are just ideas communicated, and for those ideas to become conclusions is something you have to do on your own.

I don't see banding around him or working together as a bad thing - it's like a teacher in school with a gathering of kids to listen. One guy knows something we don't. We might know something the guy doesn't know. Until one day we could look at each other and think, 'Hey, maybe we can share our knowledge.'. 

I don't see how just because something is done for profit, it's immediately done out of malicious intent. Hey, we all have to make a living somehow, right? 

 

[WaterfallMachine]

@Thanatos13 I see that you're suspicious of Leo, and I respect that. We may not have the same viewpoints, but I admire your willingness to question things.

Without forcing you to believe anything, (Only sharing my ideas, not pushing it to you.) I believe vagueness is a double edged sword. It can be used to fool other people to allow them to imagine their ideals and beliefs placed upon something - such as a politician talking about "Truth and Justice" without specifically defining what is is for him and how he would go about it. This vagueness goes against and prevents thinking.

In the other hand, vagueness is also a tool for teaching. How would many books and movies be intelligent enough if every piece of information is handed to us directly and on point? Sometimes character's intentions aren't fully explained and sometimes endings are unclear to be pondered on. This type of vagueness allows us space to think.

I know my skepticism - I don't believe in global warming deniers or people who believe vaccines causes autism, but through experiencing and reflecting on Leo's ideas - not just listening to his own videos all the time - it makes more sense somehow to me. I think Leo's vagueness as more of the latter kind - as many of his posts here I've seen tells you to question him and that he even allows many people like you who are skeptical of him around here - without banning you or removing your posts. 

You're right. Many of his in depth videos are repetitive, and they are drumming the same type of content over and over. But repetition in greater detail isn't always just useless. A person may repeat the same exercises over and over - moving one foot and another over and over can progress from being able to have a small daily walk to a long running marathon. 

If you still disagree, that's fine. Just wanted to share this so we can possibly respect each other as people more, even without respecting each other's viewpoints. Thank you for reading. 

[Atic]

There are no right answer to this. Even if you force ask him and he respond, he might still be lying. If he ever is, either we caught him doing it or he would slip his hands and let us know that he is. Or not at all. 

Man I guess claiming that he is or his not means that it's coming from your personal opinions about him or "thinking" something that would make your claim valid. What ever the reason would just be assuming.

Anyway, for an enlightened person, it doesn't matter whether Leo is manipulating us. Because that person is enlightened lol (horrible joke, I know)

Edited February 4, 2018 by Atic

[i am I AM]

Enlightened spiritual teacher appears to you to be inconsistent. Think about what is perfectly consistent on your--path. An immutable truth or law, like the Pythagorean Theorum, perhaps? Or whatever it may be for you.

Is it helping you or guiding you forward , or is "outer" change(s)/inconsistency?

[Raymondo]

On 6/22/2016 at 2:47 PM, askdfjnak said:

So, I believe in Actualized.org and the ethos here, but ...

After scrolling through the forum for hours on end, reading basically the same shit, I wanted to stop wasting my time and delete my account.

I could just stop coming back to the site, sure, but platforms like this are addictive and the easiest way to quit is to delete your account and be done with it, that's how I got off Facebook. Cold turkey is by far the easiest and most efficient way to get over something.

I started to think of this place purely as a business, outside of higher consciousness values.
I've got to say, having a binding (non-es capable) forum on your website is genius mass psychology manipulation.

Think about what we're doing here:

Talking about self actualisation

Breathing self actualisation 

Discussing self actualisation products

Following a bevevolent, omnipotent self actualising leader, who facilitates very specific discussions about self actualisation

and when we're all excited about self actualisation, guess what? There are great self actualisation products only one tab away!

Also think about what the forum gives Leo:

1. Massive traffic to his website, how many times do we come here each day?

2. New ideas to farm

3. Insight into problems we're having so he can specifically target them, either with free videos that drive traffic here to repeat steps 1-3, or with a new paid product that will probably be released soon.

 

Here's my question, I think it will make for a good discussion:

Do you think it's necessary to use business to spread higher consciousness values?

Look I chose to go this path but sometimes closing everything and just taking a big risk can be crucial, which is why I highly suggest Leo explains his complete honest motive, because he didn't start off with enlightenment videos or anything, his youtube videos started off with irrelevant, low consciousness advice other YouTubers also do for money: How to get girls bla bla, how to be successful in life.

Looking back at those videos, I realize it was honestly probably for money (which is fine) but a sudden shift occurred into enlightenment and spirituality and I think passionate followers deserve to clearly get the full motive from the person who claims he wants the best for (you) guys.

This isn't a joke, people are willing to go far for the ultimate truth and my advice is to have a closer dialogue about this, which would be a good thing for everyone in this community imo

Edited April 1, 2018 by Raymondo

[mohdanas]

why do people expect spiritual teacher to give out everything for free? phewww

We build value by our efforts in our work, this is the same for him and then we receive money as a common currency for our value. Then we exchange this currency with each other which is basically exchanging our work/effort. 

What is wrong in exchanging some of your effort for his effort? 

 

Also, I appreciate his focus and motivation to produce quality content every week, I wouldn't want to demoralize him. 

 

[Moreira]

In some post you can guess his blue-pill'ish tendecy. 

I'd be very disappointes if he was defending the cultural marxism agenda.

[Matt8800]

On 6/22/2016 at 5:47 AM, askdfjnak said:

 

 

Here's my question, I think it will make for a good discussion:

Do you think it's necessary to use business to spread higher consciousness values?

1. Everyone needs to support themselves by making money.

2. Leo has a gift that benefits a lot of people. Him spending more time at a job to pay his rent is not helpful to anyone.

3. There is nothing "wrong" with money. Money is a tool that magnifies the character of the person that wields it. People that criticize others over how much money they make is usually from a place of jealousy.

4. The amount of money does not determine its "goodness". It does not matter if Leo makes 100k a year or 10 million a year. It matters what goes on inside Leo and the overall effect it has on others.

5. If Leo's contribution to this world is impactful in a positive way, more money is only going to increase that impact by increasing the ability to reach a larger audience.

There is no need to face outward to judge whether others have motivations you find acceptable or not. That is an indication there is an opportunity for growth there. The question is, does Leo impact others in a positive way?

Edited April 1, 2018 by Matt8800

[Timotheus]

I firmly believe that there is no possibility of any human interaction without some degree of manipulation. Influence = manipulation. Sometimes it's win-win, sometimes not, that's what matters. I can't complain so far.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Timotheus

[Hardkill]

Please don't shut down this forum, Leo. This whole entire forum, has been absolutely invaluable not just to me, but also to so many others. I don't see how you have been tricking anyone into doing anything malicious or wrong.

[Raymondo]

 

I feel like reminding myself that this is the right path every once in a while and my suggestion only implies that more self-criticism would build more motivation towards everyone

 

[Spinoza]

I like this post, the democracy at Actualized.org lol, i'm happy to see this questions on the forum since i don't like the concept of follower who see someone like as perfect, always right....etc

I'm not a big follower of Leo, i did not saw all his video but a lot of them since 2 or 3 years, i will give my opinion

Personally, i don't think that Leo is manipulating us, his content is not something that attract the masses and sometimes his courage lead him to say some truth that few people are capable to say in public and this is why i admire him

I don't see how is doing manipulation, even if he do that nobody can really manipulate you, (some Guru on internet really manipulate naive people) but when you listen to Leo video he never said i have the magic product for you to transform your life in 7 days lol.

I heard him saying that this self help work is personal, only you, you can change yourself, you have to do it yourself and is very hard since we are hard wired to bad habits and society influence, he don't sell dream

Regarding the forum, i think it's a good idea he had, in a forum you can create a sort of community which share idea, on YouTube it's like there is no communication, (one person speaking, and other just listening). even he do it for traffic, what's wrong with creating content to have traffic? the forum benefit everybody, and what i like, is that he interact in the forum. 

I never seen Leo forcing anybody to buy his course like many Guru and personal development guys do. i don't see anything wrong with selling product online when it has a real value, Imagine you spend a lot of time reading, learning, trying new techniques, buying stuff, paying to experience things, then why not creating a valuable product to help people who are capable to buy it? and Free content to those who can't buy it. if he was really focusing on Marketing he could used many other techniques which work better to have x100 money.

Most of leo content is for FREE, sometime of his opinions play against him

I may sound like a bootlicker, but because Leo content is valuable and so rare on the internet i give it credit even if i don't agree with some of his view.

[Xenomorf]

• manipulate

məˈnɪpjʊleɪt/

verb

1.

handle or control (a tool, mechanism, information, etc.) in a skilful manner.

"he manipulated the dials of the set"

synonyms:operate, handle, work, control, use, employ, utilize

"the workman manipulated some knobs and levers"

2.

control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly or unscrupulously.

"the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group"

synonyms:exploit, control, influence, use/turn to one's advantage, manoeuvre, engineer, steer, direct, guide, twist round one's little finger, work, orchestrate, choreograph

"the government tried to manipulate the situation"

 

Main Reason behind Negative Comments: Assuming The experience of Actualized.org is below moral standards ( 2. unscrupulously )

 

• unscrupulous

ʌnˈskruːpjʊləs/

adjective

having or showing no moral principles; not honest or fair.

"unscrupulous landlords might be tempted to harass existing tenants"

synonyms:unprincipled, unethical, immoral, amoral, conscienceless, untrustworthy, shameless, reprobate, exploitative, corrupt, corrupted, dishonest, fraudulent, cheating, dishonourable, deceitful, devious, underhand, guileful, cunning, furtive, sly, wrongdoing, unsavoury, disreputable, improper, bad, evil, wicked, villainous, roguish, sinful, ignoble, degenerate, venal;

 

I think IF you are as smart as you claim by understanding the meaning of the words you used, there a variety of options :

• You just discovered the internet
• Lack of empathy
• Lack of occupation
• Have a complete misunderstanding about basic terminology
• With proper management you could be convinced that the Earth is flat 

Leo said Actualized is a business, and it is. One that provides knowledge and insight for a profound life. What's the problem with that ?  The clients know what they get out of the services and in general people that do not resonate with the information here, they simply do not watch, believe, engage, whatever. Realize that all of the following are businesses : school, hospital, government, church, research centers, etc 

"Business" is the activity of making one's living or making money by producing or buying and selling products (goods and services). Simply put, it is any activity or enterprise entered into for profit. It does not mean it is a company, a corporation, partnership, or have any such formal organization, but it can range from a street peddler to General Motors." [Wikipedia] 

More "scientific" evidence : How it helped me up until now ? Those free "simple" videos helped me overcome depression through intrinsic motivation and pursue more of the things I was already doing, starting postponed projects or personal endeavours. 

It's funny how most of you take so many things for granted. 

C'mon don't be haters 

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Xenomorf

[Carlos MK]

No

[allislove]

@Carlos MK man, you bumped the topic from 2016 just to say "No"?  

Please check the date on the posts. Locked.