In control of enlightenment

[Identity]

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before.

She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years.

In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”.

To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. 
To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief.

What do you think?

Are they two sides of the same coin in the end?

Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?

 

[Inliytened1]

@Identity honestly without a strong pyschedelic you have to be wary of coming from a place of ego which will make you think you are seeking.  Because to die it does not want.  It wants to survive.  Unless you know nothing and just start meditating with some bits of info but not enough for the ego to know the Truth.  In that sense its possible but again its a fine line between coming from selflessness and coming from ego.  That's why a pyschedelic may be best if you already know too much conceptually and you have already been meditating for a year or more.  I awoke in a week of meditation but i stumbled onto it and the conceptual framework and meditation all happened within a week or two's time.  Wasnt time for the ego to prepare.  It was caught off guard.

That's why she said it happens when it happens.  Because the ego is caught off guard or stumbles onto awakening.   Further awakenings the ego shuts down the system.  It doesn't wanna die.

 

[Identity]

@Inliytened1 Daym that must have been a crazy week or two ?

Well, I’m definitely quite deep in conceptually ?

Also, I’m 50 low-med dose mushroom trips in. Definitely reached a lot of peak states, with some integration.

To me it seems that I have the choice to surrender. To some degree I have surrendered already. 
Seems to me that I have to fully find the will to die. To see my own devilry so clearly that I see it’s the decision to make.

Maybe its yet another mindgame ??‍♂️

If push comes to shove Ill see what 5meo or something like that can do for me, but don’t feel ready for that atm.

[Arzack]

I agree with her. Osho said: 'You are to be dropped, how can you drop yourself/ego?' It's a paradox and that's also why most people need either psychedelics or multiple reincarnations. All sources in my signature.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Arzack

[mandyjw]

You could think of it like this, sort of. The positive part of the desire to awaken, the part of it that feels good, the inspiration, curiosity, love you have for the world and knowing it deeper is "progress" so to speak, yet it does not care nor know that it is progress because it is fulfilled in itself. It's like being excited to drive somewhere and being thrilled with the feeling of driving the car there. 

The fear, the feeling of something lacking, the fear of missing something big is the illusory part. You came to evolve, to love and become, you are not a defined solid being. You will never get it done, nor do you want to. The beauty and joy in creation, in knowing this, is the peace that passes understanding. 

[Martin123]

On 3/4/2020 at 9:33 PM, Identity said:

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before.

She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years.

In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”.

To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. 
To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief.

What do you think?

Are they two sides of the same coin in the end?

Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?

 

The only thing inside of you that awakens is consciousness. The only thing that can imagine awakening as an object to pursue, is your ego. The reality is that everyone is going to spend a certain amount of time chasing awakening, which in and of itself is a part of the awakening process. But it isn't this chase that actually makes awakening happen. It's the exhaustion of the chasing mechanism and the existential boredom your ego experiences once it realizes that it can never be in the charge of awakening, reality or any creation of consciousness. Your ego does play a very important role, and that is to create space for the awakening consciousness within you. This process often gets interrupted by the creation of a spiritual ego, that tries to act awakened, while still playing out patterns of conditioning that are only dressed up as more spiritual aspects of you. I dont know if you've seen any Jp Sears videos, but he basically makes fun of this phenomenon. Again most people will go through this phase, only to arrive at a point where the energy that they expend in effort collapses on itself, and the ego is surrendered. It is important to say 'ego is surrendered' because if the ego 'tries to surrender', such a declaration only implies more effort, and more time spent in the conditioning. Awakening is effortless, the pursuit of it is necessary to exhaust the effort.

Hope this makes sense  

[Martin123]

@Identity By the way, this is actually the reason why some people aren't into spirituality and awaken randomly never the less. Because throug some other area of their life, their effort gets exhausted, and their egos are surrendered. Sometimes its through loss of family members, existential crisis in your career, or the ending of romantic relationships. All this happens just to unravel the ego structure. If the ego tries to be in charge of its unravelling through any means (including psychedelics by the way, not saying they can't compliment but they aren't something that can control the process), you usually start getting into some trouble.
You can even look at Leo and his health issues. I am not his spiritual adviser, and am not trying to give him any advice, but this just can't be unseen. Leo manifested health issues to aid on his path of surrender. Now his ego is trying to take the tools that it knows from its previous experiences and feels comfortable with - psychedelics, and tries to apply them.
That ain't gonna work. While psychedelics can have healing properties, if they're used with an effort to 'make something happen', they will only lead to more existential confusion and crisis on a personal level.

[Nahm]

On 3/4/2020 at 4:33 PM, Identity said:

Just had an interesting conversation with my yoga teacher. My throat chakra opened up during the lesson, allowing to tap into a deeper conversation than we have had before.

She told me that she has been on the spiritual journey for most of her life. For two years she has walked around in an awakened state, to after that time fall back into ego. Now she has some flashes from time to time, but can’t seem to get back to the awareness she had during those two years. In this journey she has developed the belief that the ego has no control over the awakening process. It’s an illusion. It will happen when it has to happen. Trying to do something, only reinforces the illusion of an “I”.

She never did the inspection work and still perpetuates “an ego”. It’s a simple belief really. Love to chat with her. She won’t though. See? Wild, no?

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To me it seems that I do have the power to awaken. That I have to come to a place where I am willing enough to surrender. That “I” am the only obstacle, and can choose to remove myself so to speak. 

That is the belief.

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To me her perspective seems like a limiting belief.

It’s just un inspected self referential thinking. I find this to be very common at yoga places. Usually (forum wise) the ‘head’ awakens, and so there is much talk about awakening the ‘body’. At yoga studios, there is most often the reverse, yet no one there but the same ‘birds of a feather’. 

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What do you think?

Are they two sides of the same coin in the end?

Are they perspectives from different stages (thinking about the Ox-herder pictures)?

Yes. It’s the “trap” of how amazingly delightful it feels upon awakening the body...no acknowledgement of the ox at all. ??‍♂️

Often in such environments, there is a frowning upon psychedelics, void of the inspection work as to why they feel that way.

They feel that way because they’re doing the same thing, just with yoga after yoga after yoga after yoga.

(trip...no inspection work...”ego returns”...trip...no inspection work...”ego returns”...)

[Forestluv]

@Identity Your post brings to mind the idea of choice. . . Imagine a person is offered a pill that would allow awakening. The person gets nervous and resists. The person then goes back and forth wether to take the pill or not. Finally, the person chooses to surrender and take the pill. 

Was there a choice to surrender and take the pill? Or was it all just happenings?. . .  Is choice a thought story in the mind? . . Or is there a chooser? If yes, how much of this chooser is the external world and how much is the internal world? 

[SOUL]

It does seem as if her own beliefs are preventing her from being at peace with where she is at presently and holding her back from what she sees as a previous state of awakening. At least from your account of the discussion.

So you might be accurately saying it's her limiting beliefs that are the source of this because the spiritual life is imaginary and how we envision it will effect our experience of it.

It's not that something is objectively true or false with the spiritual path but if we trust it is true, which is the definition of belief, our spiritual life will behave as if it is true, we have empowered it to be our truth.

[Identity]

52 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It's not that something is objectively true or false with the spiritual path but if we trust it is true, which is the definition of belief, our spiritual life will behave as if it is true, we have empowered it to be our truth.

Daym, this one hit the spot.

Actually got chills from this.

Thank you ??

 

[Identity]

@Nahm She’s not quite as closed minded as you might think. She actually uses different traditions and has done multiple psychedelic retreats.

I could ask her if she wants to have a chat if you really want ?

[Inliytened1]

9 minutes ago, Identity said:

@Nahm She’s not quite as closed minded as you might think. She actually uses different traditions and has done multiple psychedelic retreats.

I could ask her if she wants to have a chat if you really want ?

Yeah i got the feel that she was indeed awake.  Just because a person falls back into duality doesn't make them assleep.  

The ego comes back until the body expires and God takes another form.  She may just need to integrate her awakening further to attach less to her ego or be meta aware of it - but that could be pure speculation.    Also when one actually experiences God directly its a hell of a thing.  People who haven't just have no idea yet.   That's why i said its harder imo for ego death to happen once the ego has died once.  

But yeah it's possible for you to awaken through seeking - anything is possible.   It seems like you are on the right track 

[Inliytened1]

4 hours ago, Arzack said:

I agree with her. Osho said: 'You are to be dropped, how can you drop yourself/ego?' It's a paradox and that's also why most people need either psychedelics or multiple reincarnations. All sources in my signature.

Yup its definitely a paradox.

So there may be more truth to the past lives theory than most people give credit to.

[Nahm]

37 minutes ago, Identity said:

@Nahm She’s not quite as closed minded as you might think. She actually uses different traditions and has done multiple psychedelic retreats.

I could ask her if she wants to have a chat if you really want ?

I don’t think she’s closed minded at all. You can ask her. Give her a link to the website. She will not entertain it. 

[Identity]

@Nahm I send her the link to this thread ?

[Nahm]

@Identity ??

[mandyjw]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s just un inspected self referential thinking. I find this to be very common at yoga places. Usually (forum wise) the ‘head’ awakens, and so there is much talk about awakening the ‘body’. At yoga studios, there is most often the reverse, yet no one there but the same ‘birds of a feather’. 

My sister is a yoga and tai chi instructor, we never agreed when it came to spirituality but it's really healing in many ways as our paths come together. 

[Nahm]

@mandyjw We’re a perfectly stubborn God indeed. 

[SOUL]

@Identity 

Yea, so often I see people saying about the spiritual path one 'can't' or 'only' or 'must' and this sets up limiting beliefs for their own spiritual path but isn't universally trie or really a requirement. It's a self constructed obstacle preventing them being it presently that they need to overcome to 'attain' it.

The ego loves to set up the system so there are methods, techniques and processes to 'accomplish' a 'goal'. Being at peace is something we are being, not doing and the ego isn't getting its desire to be justified in building an identify around it. When we believe what the ego has created we empower it to be our truth even if it is preventing our liberation.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by SOUL