Hilarious Commentary/Impressions on Jordan Peterson and Carnivore Diet

[Tarzan]

@Shiva

Sorry I'm not getting it :D. If we get more calories and use less land from plant agriculture then why is animal agriculture good? What metric do you use to say that it is good if it uses more land, and produces less calories?

If the world is better without animal agriculture then it will disappear as more and more people become conscious of its inefficiency and ethics, although it is a slow process. Less demand for meat means less incentive for production of meat and gradually there are less animals bred until we can free them if their population has reached more-or-less naturally sustainable level. I don't think cows would reproduce incessantly if we didn't breed them for our purposes.

Edit. lol  I think I misunderstood the sentence ''No animal agriculture sounds good to me!'', I read, ''No, animal agriculture sounds good to me!''

Edited March 29, 2020 by Tarzan

[Light Lover]

@TrynaBeTurquoise That JP impression though, had me in stitches LOL! Can't say I watched the whole video, people on here focus on JP too much, don't get it.

[Leo Gura]

On 3/28/2020 at 8:46 AM, LfcCharlie4 said:

why harm and exploit living beings if there’s no need to? 

Vegan diet does not work for all people.

So there is the "need".

Judgment of meat-eating is, in a sense, a worse offense than the meat-eating itself. Because by rejecting meat-eaters you reject yourself as God.

It's the same problem as judging criminals or terrorists. It seems reasonable and justified, but it rots your mind and soul and keeps you from the highest levels of consciousness and love.

Vegans don't appreciate the spiritual complexities of this issue. They like to think from their own POV, which is ironic considering how they care about the POV of animals. But what about the POV humans?

[Michael569]

Funny how these threads always end up in pro-vegan and against-vegan polarisation. Vegan Gains has turned a lot of people towards healthier lifestyle and has shed more light on the way human beings treat animals than anyone else on youtube maybe besides Freelee and Durianrider years ago before they become the sprite-promoter and the hairy jungle girl. 

Yet his militant and inconsiderate approach has given rise to many opponents of the moment and have also alienated a lot of people who would have otherwise been attracted if they came across someone like Derek Simnet instead. 

JP at least has the common decency to always say that his approach is "not a medical advice " and that he is not an expert where his daughter is just selling flat-out lies and misinformation to people. 

Elimination diets are effective in many cases and have been widely used for a variety of conditions but the one thing in common is that they are finite. Usually up to 3 months. With the exception of coeliac disease and gluten. Anyone selling a life-long elimination diet is either deluded themselves or does not have their client's/patients recovery as highest priority and hence is just trying to make money of them. 

Protocols for the autoimmune disease have to be tailored to each individual person and can only be done after fully understanding the person, their life, their background, their medical conditions, pharmaceutical history and any aggravating factor. Immediate reduction of symptoms after days is clear sign that disease has only been suppressed not healed as healing of something that has been developing for a decade does not happen overnight. 

 

 

 

[remember]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Vegan diet does not work for all people.

So there is the "need".

Judgment of meat-eating is, in a sense, a worse offense than the meat-eating itself. Because by rejecting meat-eaters you reject yourself as God.

It's the same problem as judging criminals or terrorists. It seems reasonable and justified, but it rots your mind and soul and keeps you from the highest levels of consciousness and love.

Vegans don't appreciate the spiritual complexities of this issue. They like to think from their own POV, which is ironic considering how they care about the POV of animals. But what about the POV humans?

the point of view of humans is probably that which is the most humanitarian... which would include the point of view of animals - if you don’t get that yet i wonder where you are leading everyone towards - especially being able to point out everyone’s ego but your own, is probably human but maybe less so humanitarian. 

either you gave up or it must be incredible boring recently...

it‘s not even a judgement but a matter of cheating yourself or not.

Edited April 3, 2020 by remember

[DrewNows]

I agree with remember

i think it's about taking greater responsibility for oneself, there's no need for judgement, only love/compassion/understanding and sharing a vision

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Vegan diet does not work for all people.

As god this is a dangerously silly limiting belief , Diets are fixed/limited to the quality of one's body/terrain. The only reason any diet won't work is because of desire/needs not matching expectations. It's not about what we eat but how/why we eat. We can change our terrain, beliefs, and self heal at will. To preserve the body and live on higher frequencies (without force), there must be a willingness to adapt/evolve, tune into nature/our bodies and gradually consume less

Edited April 3, 2020 by DrewNows

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, DrewNows said:

I agree with remember

i think it's about taking greater responsibility for oneself, there's no need for judgement, only love/compassion/understanding and sharing a vision

As god this is a dangerously silly limiting belief , Diets are fixed/limited to the quality of one's body/terrain. The only reason any diet won't work is because of desire/needs not matching expectations. It's not about what we eat but how/why we eat. We can change our terrain, beliefs, and self heal at will. To preserve the body and live on higher frequencies (without force), there must be a willingness to adapt/evolve, tune into nature/our bodies and gradually consume less

No

You are not going to survive an Alaskan winter on fruits and vegetables.

You are not going to survive on vegan if you have certain health conditions.

You are not going to survive on raw vegan if you don't have enough money.

Etc.

The reason people eat what they eat is because that's what allows them to survive. Of course this can be changed, but not always. And survival is a much more complex affair than merely meeting your calorie needs.

[DrewNows]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No

You are not going to survive an Alaskan winter on fruits and vegetables.

I don’t see why not if able to attain fresh produce. Also breatharianism (liquidarian) is actually a thing these days as well, so easily we can survive off, soup and liquids alone (and prana) 

You are not going to survive on vegan if you have certain health conditions.

these health conditions are now considered preventable and/or healable today, just gotta want it bad enough, the info/resources show up

You are not going to survive on raw vegan if you don't have enough money.

Etc.
We seek to thrive, not just today but continuously. It’s not about money it’s attachment and values 

The reason people eat what they eat is because that's what allows them to survive. Of course this can be changed, but not always. And survival is a much more complex affair than merely meeting your calorie needs.
To an extent I agree, and calories are pretty much arbitrary for survival. We eat what we eat because of tradition, belief systems, knowledge, culture/availability etc.

[Vipassana]

It is very convenient to have a 10 lbs steak wrapped in plastic waiting for you to pick it up but its a whole different story to kill that mf, skin it and eat it. I think most vegans just cannot see themselves killing an animal thus criticizing those who can... on the other hand... people who have all sorts of beliefs and justifications about their diet which incorporates meat, are completely disconnected with the process of animal agriculture. 

I personally can't imagine myself chopping a chickens head off in order to eat it.

 

[Applegarden]

@Vipassana i have participated in various slaughters of chicked and pigs, very unpleasant experience.  I literally cried and immediatly at the age of 8 saw the disconnect in the feeding to kill dynamic, and it was so overwhelming.

[remember]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No

You are not going to survive an Alaskan winter on fruits and vegetables.

You are not going to survive on vegan if you have certain health conditions.

You are not going to survive on raw vegan if you don't have enough money.

Etc.

well we could say raw is not made for everyone - but you can survive an arctic winter with enough stock on coconut oil and other plant oils — and a stock of various beans and carbohydrates. lets say this was not possible before, there was only what people could get and that was equally shark and whale and seal on the menu. took a long time to get people to understand not to eat extinctive species.

could you be more specific with the certain health conditions - because that sounds a little bit like asking an oracle about giving a prescription for a condition you wouldn’t even want to tell what the symptoms are and then afterwards saying: see an oracle is not a doctor.

you can survive on vegan if you don’t have enough money - fresh veggies and dried pulses and fermented foods are less expensive in a lot of cases than meat and dairy products. and some of these things you can even store for much longer. aside from the toilet paper what was sold out here in the first weeks of corona panic first was farina, dried lenses, canned tomatoes and coconut milk. if people would buy more fresh veggies that would mean they would have to cook - and that‘s where creativity ends for a lot of people already.

how good you live in a desert, you could probably survive of various cacti alone.

Edited April 4, 2020 by remember

[Eren Eeager]

Most important is not whether the animal is killed or not , he will die at the end and he doesn't care because he doesn't know or percieve that he could live longer. What is most important is whether the animal suffers during his life. If he is kept in a cage where  doesn't do anything but eating and sleeping this is really brutal. Free ranging is the most important aspect of animal rasing not killing them. Killing doesn't make the suffer for more than one minute, keeping them in captivity make them suffer for months.

[remember]

20 minutes ago, Eren Eeager said:

Most important is not whether the animal is killed or not , he will die at the end and he doesn't care because he doesn't know or percieve that he could live longer. What is most important is whether the animal suffers during his life. If he is kept in a cage where  doesn't do anything but eating and sleeping this is really brutal. Free ranging is the most important aspect of animal rasing not killing them. Killing doesn't make the suffer for more than one minute, keeping them in captivity make them suffer for months.

this is partially true but you assume animals are even less social beings than you are.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Vipassana said:

I personally can't imagine myself chopping a chickens head off in order to eat it.

But that's exactly what mankind has done for a million years. It's in your blood. You will do it when required or pay another to do it.

We live in a complex economy where it's not feasible to do every detail of life yourself. A lot of ugly stuff is hidden within the vast complexity of the economy. And yet you cannot avoid the economy. Oil and gas might be killing the planet, but our economy cannot survive without it.

[remember]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

But that's exactly what mankind has done for a million years. It's in your blood. You will do it when required.

or you would keep the chicken as a perpetuum mobile alive, one egg a day is a little more intelligent than one chicken a week if there is only one chicken to catch, because what would you otherwise eat next week?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Yes, because they had to. But today in the west this is just cruel and completely unnecessary.

Following that logic we could reintroduce slavery, too.

If it was truly unnecessary we would be able to easily eliminate it. But it's not so easy. So maybe it's more necessary than you imagine?

I'm not saying it can't be done. Just that it's gonna be a lot harder than vegans think.

[gswva]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

But that's exactly what mankind has done for a million years. It's in your blood.

The hunter-gatherer trope is popular as a preconceived image in most artist's works featuring human ancestors, but it doesn't have much basis on reality. Through the entire history of mankind, most civilizations have thrived on a diet that mostly consist of starch, whether it's wheat/barley in Europe, rice in Asia, millet in Africa or quinoa in south america. We have evolved to eat cooked starch, which is a novel source of energy that allow us to efficiently fuel our brain and store plenty of food during the winter. Human is one of the animal with the highest amount of starch digestive enzyme in the saliva, as well as the exclusive one in it, and having the highest number of gene duplication. https://elifesciences.org/articles/44628

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

If it was truly unnecessary we would be able to easily eliminate it. But it's not so easy.

The issue is easy to eliminate, but it is our fate as God. The only one who can take the tragic responsibility of causing suffering is ourselves.

Edited April 4, 2020 by gswva

[Tetcher]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No

You are not going to survive an Alaskan winter on fruits and vegetables.

You are not going to survive on vegan if you have certain health conditions.

You are not going to survive on raw vegan if you don't have enough money.

Etc.

The reason people eat what they eat is because that's what allows them to survive. Of course this can be changed, but not always. And survival is a much more complex affair than merely meeting your calorie needs.

You keep finding excuses to keep eating meat when it not only causes tremendous suffering but is also terrible for the climate and environment, which are all things you stand for otherwise, aren't those supposed to be green values ?

Check this video instead maybe it will change your mind :

 

[Carl-Richard]

@Tetcher Regardless of the valid ethical, environmental and health concerns addressed by veganism, changing individual minds through activism is not an efficient strategy. Even if the majority of people in the world were to be on board with the philosophy, it would still require a huge shift in how society functions to even start to see anything resembling global change. Of course this doesn't mean you shouldn't start somewhere, but don't expect too much too soon.

[PenguinPablo]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:17 PM, Vipassana said:

It is very convenient to have a 10 lbs steak wrapped in plastic waiting for you to pick it up but its a whole different story to kill that mf, skin it and eat it. I think most vegans just cannot see themselves killing an animal thus criticizing those who can... on the other hand... people who have all sorts of beliefs and justifications about their diet which incorporates meat, are completely disconnected with the process of animal agriculture. 

I personally can't imagine myself chopping a chickens head off in order to eat it.

 

That may be true but if you grew up in a different time period or different part of the world, you would not think twice about it. It would just be routine, like picking apples from a tree. Hard to imagine since we've never had to do this ourselves.