Being muscular = more attraction?

[BETGR164128]

@IJB063 I'm not stating these as absolute truths. I'm saying that these are limitations of scientific thinking and understanding this opens the door to more exploration of what is going on. It's an invitation for unlimited discussion about the relative nature of life rather than just closing the discussion down by trying to claim the absolute truth. 

[BETGR164128]

47 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

many people have ego investment in their appearance and they don't like objectivity as it hurts their precious feelings, the game that is being played that there is no objectivity is a biased ego game

That's just his opinion that he's trying to pass off as a fact to support his idea that there is such a thing as objective beauty. His thinking is almost child like. 

[IJB063]

2 minutes ago, BETGR164128 said:

It's ok to being labels into a discussion. It's probably not ok to start labelling yourself. Which you did all by yourself. I never said you were stage orange, I said if you're here to defend science and rationalism rather than being prepared to think about it's limitations then you might get frustrated here. I think labelling people with a colour is limiting and unnecessary, just play the ball rather than the person. 

I haven't labelled myself, as I said I was joking, its fine to bring labels into the discussion, you bought them into the discussions and then said I should'nt label myself for some reason which I didn't, as I said you implied that I was stage orange, you brought stages into this discussion, I'm fine with discussing the limitations of reason, but in general discourse when discussing points e.g. do muscles make you more attractive we presuppose truth and reason, its very esoteric to get into a ontological argument about truth, and now we're not even discussing anything of substance, you'll labelled the guy in the school of life video as orange, I'm finding this now boring and tedious, you pulled the discussion away from the main point of the thread by practically stating there is no such thing as objective truth/absolutes, there no real arguing that and this thread isn't the place, I don't know if there is or isn't buddy, neither have I claimed to in this thread 

[IJB063]

18 minutes ago, BETGR164128 said:

Am I? Point to where I did this. All I'm doing is pointing out areas that I have mastered for the benefit of clarifying my thinking. Maybe others will benefit from it. But there is no way I'm stating absolutes.

I have to now rewrite this as I just lost what I'd written because I wanted to check what you had written on the third page, this is now spanning three pages 

This quotation is responding to me pointing out that you to are using the powers of deduction to derive at a premise

The quotations of yours show this

[Forestluv]

If building muscle and getting in shape is an expression of a healthy mind, body and spirit - that will be very attractive to a lot of women. Yet if an unhealthy guy gets muscular on steroids, it won't increase his attractiveness to a lot of women. Perhaps a bit at a surface level, yet he won't get too far. 

[BETGR164128]

12 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

I haven't labelled myself, as I said I was joking, its fine to bring labels into the discussion, you bought them into the discussions and then said I should'nt label myself for some reason which I didn't, as I said you implied that I was stage orange, you brought stages into this discussion, I'm fine with discussing the limitations of reason, but in general discourse when discussing points e.g. do muscles make you more attractive we presuppose truth and reason, its very esoteric to get into a ontological argument about truth, and now we're not even discussing anything of substance, you'll labelled the guy in the school of life video as orange, I'm finding this now boring and tedious, you pulled the discussion away from the main point of the thread by practically stating there is no such thing as objective truth/absolutes, there no real arguing that and this thread isn't the place, I don't know if there is or isn't buddy, neither have I claimed to in this thread 

Are you just here to win arguments?

[BETGR164128]

23 minutes ago, IJB063 said:

I haven't labelled myself, as I said I was joking, its fine to bring labels into the discussion, you bought them into the discussions and then said I should'nt label myself for some reason which I didn't, as I said you implied that I was stage orange, you brought stages into this discussion, I'm fine with discussing the limitations of reason, but in general discourse when discussing points e.g. do muscles make you more attractive we presuppose truth and reason, its very esoteric to get into a ontological argument about truth, and now we're not even discussing anything of substance, you'll labelled the guy in the school of life video as orange, I'm finding this now boring and tedious, you pulled the discussion away from the main point of the thread by practically stating there is no such thing as objective truth/absolutes, there no real arguing that and this thread isn't the place, I don't know if there is or isn't buddy, neither have I claimed to in this thread 

It sounds to me as if you're here to win an argument rather than explore your assumptions about the fact that you think that muscles make you more attractive and that studies done to try to support theories of biological genetic selection are to be taken as reliable statements of fact. The point is that there is obviously a lot more going on than just good looks, and I think you're here to tell everyone how it is because you are invested in whatever research you have done concerning the subject. I don't personally feel you're in the right place for an open minded discussion that would make you me and others grow. I think you're here to defend what you think you think is right. 

[IJB063]

16 minutes ago, BETGR164128 said:

Are you just here to win arguments?

Yet again we're not even talking about anything of substance, Jesus is this boring, no I'm not just here to win an argument, this is starting to remind of this Monty Python sketch

Now I'm forced to define what an argument is, so for convenience sake I'll use the video

"An argument is a collected series of statements to establish a proposition"

I said that there is such thing as objective beauty, you contradicted me saying beauty is subjective

You changed the argument to there is no such thing as objective truth 

I explained maybe there is maybe there isn't, this has no relevancy to objective beauty and now we are here

I am trying to establish a proposition, and you are to 

And I'm not going to try to spoon feed you why you are 

I'm done with this argument, its now boring me, I don't care if I've won or lost

We are going to have to agree to disagree instead of resorting to contradiction

Godspeed

Edited March 2, 2020 by IJB063

[BETGR164128]

1 minute ago, IJB063 said:

Yet again we're not even talking about anything of substance, Jesus is this boring, no I'm not just here to win an argument, this is starting to remind of this Monty Python sketch

Now I'm forced to define what an argument is, so for convenience sake I'll use the video

"An argument is a collected series of statements to establish a proposition"

I said that there is such thing as objective beauty, you contradicted me saying beauty is subjective

You changed the argument to there is no such thing as objective truth 

I explained maybe there is maybe there isn't, this has no relevancy to objective beauty and now we are here

I am trying to establish a proposition, and you are to 

And I'm not going to try to spoon feed you why you are 

I'm done with this argument, its not boring me, I don't care if I've won or lost

Godspeed

Well maybe I'm not the right person for you to be talking to? If you are bored then you should take that you are speaking to somebody who can't live up to your intellectual standards and just move on

[IJB063]

1 minute ago, BETGR164128 said:

Well maybe I'm not the right person for you to be talking to? If you are bored then you should take that you are speaking to somebody who can't live up to your intellectual standards and just move on

That's what I'm doing

[Identity]

@Marinus Depends what the question is really asking. Are you curious about the effects building muscle on attraction?

That is a debate to have. What degrees, what situation, attractive to whom etc.

But if the real question is, how can I become more attractive? Than building muscle is a very indirect path.

It’s like asking how important running shoes are in running a marathon. We can sit and talk about that. And there might be some validity to the claim that there is. However, it would seem training would be way more important.

Training here would be changing the essence of your being. How do you feel in life. How do you see yourself. How do you see woman. What presence do you bring. What is your eye contact like. What is your body language communicating. How much do you allow yourself to feel turned on around woman. Are you sub-consciously inviting them into your life, or pushing them away. Etc. Etc.

Also, the bait must match the fish. If you’re looking to get laid at the club with some girls who spend half the evening brushing up their face and making their boobies pop, some big biceps will have quite an impact. 
If you are trying to get into a relationship with a self-actualized woman, she will look past your biceps right into your soul.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Identity

[BETGR164128]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

If building muscle and getting in shape is an expression of a healthy mind, body and spirit - that will be very attractive to a lot of women. Yet if an unhealthy guy gets muscular on steroids, it won't increase his attractiveness to a lot of women. Perhaps a bit at a surface level, yet he won't get too far. 

This is a little bit more nuanced than what @IJB063 has been trying to assert. For me it shows a more thoughtful approach than just relying on data and narrow minded theories like genetic selection. But even what you said here is partial because there are a vast amount of women dating very immature guys but who look great. We really can't pinpoint this thing down to a few causes. There is something greater going on, but I've noticed that the human mind has this need to reduce reality to a handful of ideas that it can handle. 

[tom rAy]

no, it won't get you any significant  attention from women, (if you are not  Arnold and it's not seventies), but you'll certainly have much more attention from guys, mostly jokes though  

[randomguy123]

idk if mentioned above, but also depends on the country and culture. If you're living in country with emergent orange, like say East-Europe, I'm sure it matters quite a bit. Take your muscles to Scandinavia and nobody will care.

[Emerald]

It depends. To me, a guy who is muscular in an average way is more physically attractive body-wise than a guy who is not muscular at all. Basically, a guy who looks physically strong but not bulked up is the most attractive, judging only on the look of the body alone.

But guys who are extremely muscular are less attractive to me body-wise than guys who are non-muscular (skinny or hefty). I don't care for the big and bulky body-builder look at all. 

So, the answer is yes... but it reaches a point of diminishing returns once you get past a certain point. 

And I think this is pretty typical for women, in general. Guys like themselves to be more muscular than women do. 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Emerald

[ajasatya]

Muscles can be attractive but if you want to go for a better bet, I'd recommend developing a huge passion for your Life. Enjoying Life and having a huge vision is hundreds of thousands times more effective than being a muscular dude. Extinguish the neediness inside you and you will be unstoppable.

[Marinus]

To give some background: I was and am skinny. I want to build not only muscle, I want to become athletic and vital to the best of my ability. It's part of my physical actualization and I really like to move my body in sports, dancing etc., because it feels so good to be able to do all of that. It has nothing to do with girls, but if it's a nice side effect I won't complain. It won't be my primary way of attraction, but it can serve as an invitation whenever a girl sees me and thinks "wow an attractive body has he" and then when we talk she will get to know who I am and that I am as awsome as my looks.

And people that say "personality is what truly is attractive" then I either have a shitty personality or those people deny the shallow nature of appearance. Appearance is what you see and if you don't feel attracted enough you won't talk to that person and that way you won't discover someones personality. People that say they don't care about appearance are either lying to themselves or in the minority.

 

 

[randomguy123]

1 hour ago, Marinus said:

Appearance is what you see and if you don't feel attracted enough you won't talk to that person and that way you won't discover someones personality.

 

 

Well, that is sure the case if the other person cares about that stuff, but that tells you more about them than about you. Really, what's going on is you want to appeal to these kind of people in that way. Because you care about their opinion in that way. That doesn't make it the end all be all, you can get over this and you have the freedom to choose how. By going down the path you layed out here or dropping it all together, which is likely very difficult for you. There's no wrong choice, just be aware of what you are doing.

1 hour ago, Marinus said:

People that say they don't care about appearance are either lying to themselves or in the minority.

 

 

Or they got over it, which very few people admittedly have.

[Hemant]

I can tell you my own experience, I am 6'1" and in my early 20s I used to be lean without much muscles (though a little bit), at that time I used to go to running in morning and gym (with no supplements). At that time and used to get tons and tons of attention from women. 

 

I'm 30 now, few years back I started taking body building seriously and started taking protein supplements (bcaa, whey, creatine, and some other) I have built quiet muscles and many people call me bodybuilder wherever I go, but now I get fraction of women's attention I used to get. But now I do get tons of men's attention ?

I read somewhere something like "when you become bodybuilder, you start getting other men's attention" I think it's so true. Women probably don't like bodybuilder but just slight muscles and lean body.

[Globalcollective]

I'm naturally very skinny but have gone through many stages of bulking up at the gym. I always got alot more girls when I was skinny but that could also be due to the fact if you go to the gym alot you don't really have as much time to meet girls all the time. One guy I know who use to be skinny became very well tonned and got a well built body but he gets way less girls then he did skinny.  Also the guys I know who do the best with girls are normally quite skinny tbf or skinny fat. I think there is to many other factors involved. 

Some people's frames don't look good with added muscle takes a certain frame to pull it off.