Stage Red examples

[Matt23]

I don't know how to create a megathread.  But I thought why not work on completing the Spiral Dynamics megathread examples.  

I'd personally like to know and learn more about the lower stages since they aren't covered as much.

 

Questions I have

- What does a healthy stage Red/Purple/ or even Beige look like?  But in this case, Red.

-Is it like, storming out of a job or relationship after taking abuse?  

 

I dunno. 

Post post post away!  

Cheers

[Matt23]

 

[Derek White]

Maybe a healthy red would be someone who doesn't take abuse from anyone. Someone who's independent, does what he wants type of a person. Because purple is conformist so red is a reaction to the negatives of conformist purple. 

[Matt23]

Yeah.  I agree.  

Tom Sizemore (the actor) in Saving Private Ryan really, to me anyway, seems to be Red and oozes a ceratin maybe healthy red...  Like in battle scenes when he gets hit or something, all he does is get super frustrated and yells and just goes berserk on his enemies instead of shrinking back in defense or being ok with it. 

[Matt23]

Using frustration as fuel for survival.   

 

[Matt23]

 

I always thought the military uses both a lot of Blue and Red.  Then, dpeending on where you are, Orange.  

I heard Ken Wilber saying that stage Blue knows how to handle stage Red...?

[Derek White]

@Matt23 Idk if someone of the examples you gave are red. Being emotionally charged is not something exclusive to red, it's something tier 1 stages do. I haven't seen the movie you mentioned so I can't comment on that. I'll try to see if I can find a healthy red.

Burger king one seems green and the marine corps seems blue.

7 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

I heard Ken Wilber saying that stage Blue knows how to handle stage Red...?

Ya, blue uses conformism and morality to handle red. 

[Apparition of Jack]

I've thought about this, and to me an example of healthy stage Red might be something like a journalist breaking the law in order to get a scoop that exposes widespread corruption. The journalist themself might be at Green, but that desire to expose the truth no matter the legal consequences to me would be them utilising a healthy Red aspect.

I'm not sure what a healthy example of someone centered at Red would look like though. From the POV of our modern societies that moved up to Orange and even Green Red can seem violent and backwards, but I'm sure there are examples of it being healthy and useful. Maybe a tribal leader in India who has seen their tribe succumb to poverty and in-fighting due to exploitation / discrimination uses their wits and cunning to bring the disparate parts of the tribe together and push for their rights on the legal stage might be an example of healthy Red. I don't know.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Matt23]

I could see the Burger Kind guy being perhaps more Orange, maybe Green, but then perhaps using Red to fight for a just cause.  

I was thinking the drill sergeants when they were yelling and screaming in their face were using Red, though, they may be mostly Blue or Orange regularly.  Like the majoirity of Army is probably Blue and Orange (in the states), but I could see how using aspects of Red at times would be handy (instead of being a victim in combat, rising above that and getting shit done ---->  "Anger is a more construct emotion than victimization" paraphrasing the Terminator...----->   

----> Terminator... stage red?  

I could see maybe a tribe, like vikings or something, getting that blood-berserker furry in them to combat their enemies to save their village or something.  

 

[Apparition of Jack]

You know, I just had a thought as to might be healthy Red. A self-disciplined bouncer or bodyguard might make a good example of Red. Someone who doesn't necessarily have qualms overstepping boundaries in order to achieve their goal but isn't necessarily vindictive or vicious about. They will be restrained and respectful and will resort to violence only as a last resort, but when they do there's no hesitation is seeing the fight to its completion.

[Matt23]

I think my brother exhibits a lots of stage Red.  One thing he often said was that if someone fucked with me he'd beat the hell out of them.... Positive and coming from love (to a degree), though probably misguided and not what I'd want him to do.

[Derek White]

You might wanna double check with Leo or some of the mods. They know the model better than most of us. 

[Matt23]

Or maybe someone who does a lot of solo-types of work.  Like old prospectors or something  .  They go out, totally for their own gain, but not really about hurting others (though they might if others got in their way).  Out in the wilderness, focusing on survival, making it, fighting the elements, building up their "I can!  I'm a dominant force of nature!"  types of mentalities.

I remember doing a sea kayak trip on a course I did.  One day it was raining and the waves were rough and high.  Me and a friend were in a tandem-canoe.  We just got super hyped about being out in the elements and started chanting and loving the adrenalin rush of it all.

 

... I think adrenalin and dopamine are largely associated with stage Red

[Matt23]

@Derek White  Haha wanna hear an example of stage Red?  Right when you posted that the first thought that popped into my head was "Fuck the mods and Leo.  We don't need them or their authority."  

Maybe that can be another positive of Red (depending on circumstances I suppose).  It doesn't appeal to authority

[Derek White]

Just wanna drop this here.

[Matt23]

Red could be useful if there was some totalitarian regime or something  repressing people.  Fighting back.

I think Red helps keep leaders in check too.

@Derek White Ah, cheers.

Side-note:  does anyone know how to create megathreads?

Edited March 2, 2020 by Matt23

[Derek White]

Leo gave this example once. 

On 2/6/2020 at 0:29 AM, Leo Gura said:

Ugh... just seeing that title and thumbnail makes me want to vomit.

No, most bros I know are pretty solid Orange. At least in urban parts of America.

Red is pretty rare these days in developed parts of the world.

The difference between Orange and Red is that Orange will posture about being macho and alpha and may start a drunken bar fight, while Red will stab you in the throat with a fork and strangle your dog.

Joe Pesci from Casino, that's Red:

Don't fuck with Red.

I don't think fighting or anger is red in it of itself. 

[Roy]

I know you asked for Red (sorry lol) but how do you feel about Native Americans being a good example of healthy Stage Purple? I know they are romanticized a lot in this day and age because of the Stage Green recoil to how they were treated in history (and still to this day really), but I see a lot of cool aspects and things going on with Native Americans;

- Extreme respect for environment/land/ecology in general. They have a humble inner acknowledgment about being in balance with the land and not exploiting it.

- Strong sense of community. They actively look to heal without reparations and are very welcoming.

- They have a competent and interesting understanding and interpretation of the value of psychedelics and  other alternative medicine.

Those are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head. Of course Purple is still a very low stage. They can be mired down by religious mysticism and tribal feuds. It just appears poignant that Native Americans were and are treated so bad when it seems like they were ahead of their time. Can't many of those aspects be considered Stage Green? It seems like modern Western society could undergo immense lesson learning by tapping into what they've been practicing for thousands of years.

@Leo Gura What do you think?

I'm also curious how moving up the Spiral to Red from this seems to be productive in any way? Red doesn't seem to have any redeeming qualities except it has a more successful orientation towards power structures and being able to dominate others, but that is a step backwards is it not? I'm glad you posted this thread I need to look into the lower stages some more.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Roy

[Matt23]

@Roy I dunno.  I hesitate to peg Native Americans (today) at any one stage since there are many cultures and people widely spread who fall into that category.  Also consider there are different lines of development.  So perhaps some Native American culture may have a higher spiritual line of development since they use psychedelics and do communal healing (etc.), but then their interpersonal lines or moral lines (etc.) aren't as developed.  I live in Canada and the story I hear is that many Native Americans were brutalized (physically and mentally), even up to the 1970s (with residential schools:  they took kids from their parents and forced them into schools and treated them very poorly).  I think this had a huge impact on the health and development of generations to come.  Though, even prior to European settlement, it does seem like many Native Americans nations weren't yet at stage Blue or higher levels of development (generally).  They were still hunter-gatherers.  Nothing wrong with that per se.

Just remember though, excesses of anything can become unhealthy.  So yeah, maybe they have more community-togetherness.  But that also means individuals are probably less able to be and express their individuality more.  All those cultural codes and rules will be more dominant, and if you for some reason don't agree with those codes or rules (they may not be exactly healthy rules/codes either), you might find it hard to live with them.

[Preety_India]

I think a person who stands for the truth and upholds it is a healthy red