Time (what it actually is)

[ivankiss]

@The Lucid Dreamer If you want to look at it that way, sure.

But I'm actually saying it's not an illusion. Time is real and actual. I just pointed out how it's created and why are we experiencing it the way we are.

There is no trick. No one is being tricked. Everything is exactly as it is. Therefore there is no illusion.

It's merely a matter of becoming aware of what's already going on.

Saying that there's no time can be helpful to some on a certain part of their journey - I agree. But it surely is not something to hold onto for too long. It could prevent one from expanding more.

What I share is not relevant to all, obviously. We're all at different stages of awakening.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Time:

the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

 

Past and Future are always concepts happening in the "now" with no exceptions. That is the illusory nature of time. Try and understand what people are pointing to when they say time is an illusion instead of saying "this is the way it is". Making a spiritual and new-agey sounding thread saying there isn't any illusion isn't going to liberate you from illusion any more than the next pretense. If an illusion had you tricked, you wouldn't be conscious of it, thats how illusions work  

Saying "everything is exactly as it is" therefore no illusion is silly. Practically speaking, this is not helpful to 99% of people who are asleep. "Everything is exactly how it is", is a truism, yet people are still asleep. Why are they asleep, because they are trapped within illusion in some form or another. 

"Illusion" is just one way to think about it, just another concept. If you don't want to use that word, theres nothing wrong with that. But your whole message is mostly just a word game, despite your good intentions. 

[The Awakened Viking]

Sometimes this forum is 1000 years ahead of its time

[Ananta]

4 hours ago, Consilience said:

but time is still illusory. The illusion of time does not contradict with what you’re writing about here. 

I agree.❤

[ivankiss]

@LastThursday Sorry, somehow I overlooked your post.

Well, considering that this moment before me right now could be labelled as a "memory", my answer is: whatever you decide or choose to believe. As I understand; the "me" that sat on the plane and the "me" that's in Paris are two completely different realities. Different timelines. The one who's on the plane had a different past and has a different future. Same with the one who's in Paris. No correlation whatsoever.

What's connecting them and unifies them is Consciousness. That which is conscious of both, and many more.

Explaining retrospectively something that you don't really have a "memory" of - meaning you were/are not conscious of "the in-between" can end up looking like anything. I imagine you would probably tune into or pick up on a random bunch of parallel realities and arrange them in your mind in a way that they make some sort of sense to the "current you".

Imo; it's not about trusting the memory, or the thought. It's simply about being aware of how things roll  Sticking with what seems like the best conscious decision at any given moment. For whatever purpose.

Knowing the steps you're taking.

[ivankiss]

@TrynaBeTurquoise There just is no illusion where I'm at. Never really was. I just thought it's a cool term to throw around for a while. It was a short phase. "Illusion this, illusion that". All until the "aha moment".

I'm just offering a different way to look at things. Why does that bother you so much?

I'm literally only sharing my experience of reality here. If it helps someone; great. If not: awesome. I enjoy writing and sharing here. Of course it's a word-play. Has the potential of pointing one in the right direction tho.

And if it's not the particular word-play and mash of concepts you would use... sorry not sorry. I'm not going to use symbols that are more acceptable on this forum just so I wouldn't trigger anyone.

I express things as they want to come through naturally.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ivankiss

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

9 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise There just is no illusion where I'm at. Never really was. I just thought it's a cool term to throw around for a while. It was a short phase. "Illusion this, illusion that". All until the "aha moment".

I'm just offering a different way to look at things. Why does that bother you so much?

I'm literally only sharing my experience of reality here. If it helps someone; great. If not: awesome. I enjoy writing and sharing here. Of course it's a word-play. Has the potential of pointing one in the right direction tho.

And if it's not the particular word-play and mash of concepts you would use... sorry not sorry. I'm not going to use symbols that are more acceptable on this forum just so I wouldn't trigger anyone.

I express things as they want to come through naturally.

Because you personally used the term "illusion" just to sound cool in the past, as you just said, and woke up from that pretense, does not make you immune to more pretense. That should in fact tell you what your mind could be doing right now. Yet here you say "there is no illusion where im at" aka making yourself even more prone to self-deception. 

I am not bothered, or triggered by your perspective as you are projecting on to me. Just as you like to share your experience of reality, I am sharing my own insight into the matter.

[ivankiss]

@TrynaBeTurquoise Did not use the term to sound cool but because I believed it was the best way to describe what I was experiencing at that time. And it simultaneously sounded cool 

Now I use other words and phrases that seem appropriate.

And yes; I'm still growing and evolving. Who knows what's the next concept or bundle of words I'll let go of in the future and replace them with whatever.

Appreciate your input.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ivankiss

[Ananta]

7 hours ago, ivankiss said:

"Time is an illusion. It doesn't exist."

Must've heard that a million times. 

Yes, because as I see it, all there is is now. You can think about a past "now" or think of a future "now" and they would both be illusion, because they are made up in the mind "now".

Any time point that is different then another is still only ever "now". We create time in the mind with calendars, watches, clocks,  etc., otherwise we would be living in the moment and time wouldn't exist other then perhaps the sun rising/setting, seasons changing. 

Memory is also used after the fact to build a timeline which seems like there was a thing called "time", but still all just moments happening "now".

Psychological time is one of the greatest reasons ppl suffer, regrets of the past and worry for the future, both creations of the mind.

[wesyasz]

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@TheAvatarState But I did experience jumping between timelines on a smaller scale. As well as the total an utter collapse of linearity

Would you be willing to share a little bit more? 
Any insights about changing the past?

Edited March 2, 2020 by wesyasz

[Eph75]

While time being a mental construct and also the past only existing in the mind as a mental construct that past is very much prone to being a misrepresentation of reality even more so than what the perception of the current moment is. That illusion of time doesn't negate the representation of perceptions of moments experienced "in the past" even if we should say that there is only this moment. Well, unless they are fully false memories and not false in the sense of inaccuracy through perception. 

The past happening right now in the mind whenever the thought of the past occurs means it is experienced right now and we own the capacity to change the past by reinventing or reinterpreting the perception of that past. We do that with or without intent. It happens all the time. 

IMO it adds confusion when trying to make sense of this when applying the idea that everything is happening in your mind and hence is only an illusion.

I find the topic interesting yet hard to make sense of all the thoughts that are being thrown out there, there's a lot of implicit subjective assumption in these kind of topics. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by Eph75

[The Lucid Dreamer]

20 hours ago, ivankiss said:

@The Lucid Dreamer If you want to look at it that way, sure.

But I'm actually saying it's not an illusion. Time is real and actual. I just pointed out how it's created and why are we experiencing it the way we are.

There is no trick. No one is being tricked. Everything is exactly as it is. Therefore there is no illusion.

It's merely a matter of becoming aware of what's already going on.

Saying that there's no time can be helpful to some on a certain part of their journey - I agree. But it surely is not something to hold onto for too long. It could prevent one from expanding more.

What I share is not relevant to all, obviously. We're all at different stages of awakening.

Well I suppose what we really mean when we say that time is illusory is that it’s relative, and not absolute.  And in the process of awakening, we make that distinction between relative and absolute but at some point we need to collapse even that duality to include the relative in the absolute truth.  So in that sense, I certainly agree that time is “real” in the sense that whatever we experience(linear sequence of time in this case) is a part of the absolute.  The whole issue here is we are trying to convey non-dual truth using a necessarily dualistic medium such as language, which only allows you to describe something as one thing as opposed to it’s opposite, when in actuality, non-duality is all inclusive and indiscriminate. So if you say that time is real, that’s not entirely true, because it’s also illusory in another sense. And if I say that time is only illusory, that’s also not entirely true, because it’s also real in another sense. In a relative sense.  The duality of reality and illusion also collapses. Reality simply will not bend to our simplistic notions of what constitutes reality or illusion.

Edited March 2, 2020 by The Lucid Dreamer

[ivankiss]

@Anna1 We disagree mainly because we view and understand time differently. As well as "the mind". We have different definitions.

To me; time is not merely a mental construct that people came up with. It is actually a quality of consciousness.

Precisely because everything is happening  now; Time exists. 

"Living in the moment" requires Time. Without it all there is is static, frozen snapshots. Pure, crystallized consciousness that leaves no time and no space for any movement whatsoever.

Which is, actually, exactly how I became aware of the stuff I'm describing here.

[ivankiss]

@The Lucid Dreamer Time being illusory or not is not even the point I wanted to emphasize, really. It's just that people got triggered by my first two sentences.

Point is; you are shifting now. And now. And now. All the time. At the speed of light. That's what creates the effect of time.

[ivankiss]

What you think of as thoughts of the past or the future is actually just you tapping into parallel realities that are all happening simultaneously. You're never thinking really. You are picking up on endless probabilities. 

Also; this moment right now before you that you would label as "actual" and "real"...is a thought. It's just that you're fully tuned into it. Which makes it seem real and tangible. It is a materialized thought.

[Nahm]

@ivankiss Ever seen, heard, or felt time?

[Ananta]

Show me the past?

Show me the future? 

If I can not step into the past or into the future, then that tells me experience only ever happens in the eternal now, and that is all there is. 

 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@ivankiss “"Time is an illusion. It doesn't exist."

Must've heard that a million times. 

If you're anything like me; stuff like that never really clicked with you. I've always felt like there's much more depth to everything. Everything people like labeling as "illusion" and whatnot. To me that seems like an easy way out. An excuse for justifying denial. A ticket for escaping what is. 

Never really resonated.

The best way to come to know time, or anything else for that matter, is to befriend it. Instead of being in denial about it.

So I became friends with time. I let it do its job. I do not run from it. I am not chased by it. And here's what's been revealed to me”

________________________________________

The very first like third of your original post was about how you don’t like to think about time as illusory.
 

Even if it wasn’t your main point, that’s the point that many of us are contending with because we don’t agree that it’s a bad way of communicating non-dual insight.  And what my point is is that the whole thing about tapping into parallel realities, and all of the parallel realities all happening at once is the same thing as saying that time(is as normally conceived) is illusory. 

 

I’m not disagreeing with it, and I’ll even go as far as to say that it’s a fine and acceptable way of saying the exact same thing.  It just fleshes it out more and it expounds on exactly what is being said when someone who is trying to convey non-dual truth says that time is an illusion.  
 

I’m aware you’ve already expressed that what you’re saying is somehow different from saying that time(as most people conceptualize it) is illusory, but I still don’t understand how you’re coming to that conclusion. 

[VeganAwake]

40 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Show me the past?

Show me the future? 

If I can not step into the past or into the future, then that tells me experience only ever happens in the eternal now, and that is all there is. 

 

"Cause I'm a man of the past
And I'm livin' in the present
And I'm walking in the future
Stepping in the future

Man of the past
And I'm livin' the present
And I'm walking in the future

I'm just a mystic man
Got to be a mystic man"

- Peter Tosh (mystic man)
 

[ivankiss]

@Nahm You. Experiencing it right now.

@Keyhole

@Anna1 I cannot show it to you. But you can see it yourself.

The projection cannot see the projector. The projector can see all projections. All frames. It's what sets them in motion. Animates them and gives them life. Light.

Edited March 2, 2020 by ivankiss