Romantic Love is a LIE

[IJB063]

@modmyth

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

It's a lot like giving to yourself in a way. If you've never loved or cared about anyone enough to get direct pleasure from their pleasure, well... I'm sorry that's unrelatable. Legitimately.

Of course I have, I’m not a psychopath, lol

The point I’m making is that you, you still take pleasure in it, you’re right when you say that you’re really just giving back to yourself, or you wouldn’t do it

If you were in agonising pain every time you freely gave to someone you would’t do it, even Jesus Christ couldn’t have been strung up on that cross for purely altruistic reasons (I’m not Christian) and Jesus has reassurances about reality that we don’t have

Likewise even the belief in a god, is not for rational considerations and observations about reality, but instead the religious to are consequentialists 

Why?

Because if they were told believing in god would send you to hell for all eternity and not believing in god will have them sent to heaven, what benefit would they have to believe in god

If a religion preached that I think it would struggle to spread

Even though the love of god is one of the most selfless loves that people have and even that on a hind brain level is just the weighing of the pros and cons for each action, I don’t know what else would be the best representation of an abundance mentality than the love of the whole universe, but still, it’s consequentialist and primal

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

believe that energy is infinite in a sense, psychoemotional energy, but that tends to have limits as it expresses itself throughout time. In practice, having this sort of belief generates more energy. It is practical; it's not just woo-woo fairy wash.

I’m not sure I know exactly what you mean

But I see no reason why reality can’t be infinite, and it would limit itself as you, you are an expression of infinite reality, and the beliefs you have definitely shape your reality and the way in which you feel, I’m not saying what you’re saying is woo woo, reality itself is woo woo

All I’m doing is observing from my own experience and from my own reading what I think is human nature, and I don’t think it’s as free giving and loving as people portray it 

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

You believe in unconscious and biological drives which are insurmountable. So then, that dictates what you believe is possible for your consciousness. Ok. I am very well familiar with this mode of thinking. I think it's weak ideologically. As well as a recipe for misery.

How is my consciousness limited by a belief in biology? 
People change beliefs, I could change my beliefs, and I already think of my self as an open minded person, this in part is what psychedelics are for 

I don’t think it’s weak ideologically, and you haven’t demonstrated why it’s weak, you’ve just said it will make you miserable, but feeling good and feeling bad isn’t proof that something is wrong, feelings anyway I would say are pretty separate from beliefs, feeling good and bad is more primal and instinctual than abstract 

If you want to prove to me my ideology is weak prove first

How is my consciousness limited by a belief in biology? 
 

How biology/nature can be surmounted?

And prove that anyone can do anything for non consequentialist reason? E.g. out of pure selflessness 

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

Look, I haven't exactly had a good life, especially for my early life. I have had significant amounts of trauma and abuse that I have written about publically here. I am well aware of many negative aspects of the reality of living on Earth. I myself could find many many reasons not to be open as I could, or not to give, to be bitter and to blame people, but I have decided that it's no way to live, even when going through some of those worst phases of my life. I didn't do it because I felt like I should do it. I did it for me, because it feels terrible to think that way. Honestly, does this way of thinking fulfill you?

I’m sorry to hear that

I would say I’m not completely a fulfilled person, currently, though I don’t say that’s because the way I think or the fact that I believe in biology, that humans have an inescapable nature, I’m not even necessarily saying that nature is entirely bad, find me someone who is completely fulfilled and wants nothing else out of life, those people are a rarity, I’m only 19, if I was a fulfilled person I’d be quite the bad motherfucker

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

The unconscious is not a god. Biological tendencies are not a god. They may or may not have great power, but why the defeatist attitude?

I haven’t said that biology is a god, I said in the previous post that they’re these meta-physical, forces that effect us and we cant effect them, at least on a fundamental level, perhaps god acts through the unconscious to steer us (god the universe blah) it doesn’t matter the name

Im not a defeatist lol

And you’re right the unconscious might not have power and might not exist, but it looks to me like it does, so I’m siding right now on that side until something either proves to me that I’m wrong, or I change my mind for whatever reason 

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

Everything that is unconscious/ subconscious, as we understand it to be, is very much capable of disintegration. Everything is capable of being imbued with absolute consciousness (and in another sense, is already present anyway.)

How is it cable of disintegration?

The unconscious is already present anyway, it’s present in consciousness to some degree otherwise it wouldn’t exist, but do we have control over it, not our fundamental nature, there are many forces placed upon us that we have no control over, we don’t have control over space, we don’t have control over time. And these forces drastically effect our lives, for me to believe that currently we can’t effect time doesn’t mean I’m a defeatist, I’m just drawing conclusions from the current evidence. And I believe the current evidence points that we also can’t control our fundamental nature.

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

Look, I have skepticism about romance as it's understood to be too. I probably lack a certain kind of idealism at this point. But love is so much more than what you get, and it's not just about feeling good and fluffy. Real 'unconditional' love is absolute love, and it is the fabric of our reality. It's literally everywhere.

Yeah, well I don’t see people as absolutely loving creatures, considering all the death, war, senseless violence and needless poverty. Maybe you can have real love bordering on unconditional on mdma or if you’re bordering on insanity, but for the average person with the average brain it’s probably not something that’s achievable 

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

You have to set pure intentions for reality despite whatever reality presents you, AND also not put the blinders on. It's not mutually exclusive.

Reality is not separate from us, we are reality, so those intentions emerge from reality, I don’t know what you mean by “pure” what loving intentions, well reality doesn’t seem loving, also I think it’s contradictory to say that despite what reality presents you, no matter how unloving reality seems, still have loving intentions, and that somehow isn’t putting on blinders. Why is it not mutually exclusive?

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

Why? Well, you don't actually have to, but the alternatives suck.

Life sucks for most people most of the time.

8 hours ago, modmyth said:

People usually can either smell that shit (consciously or subconsciously to varying degrees), so you keep mysteriously attracting people to you who perpetually take advantage.  It's really unfortunate and not right at all, but it is what it is.  We're all stuck dealing with the reality of it one way or another, until we're not. Also mysteriously, when you change your mindset and manage to resolve certain things, you stop attracting or you actively repel certain types of people as well.

I don’t let people take advantage of me

If I do for whatever reason, then I deserve it for not having the balls to not let myself be taken advantage of

Maybe though youre just deluded because you changed your mind about people and then set on blinders but now you think you’re not attracting the same people but you really are

Anyway @modmyth , real good stuff ?

Got to the bottom of this probs with these posts

Edited May 30, 2020 by IJB063

[Amil]

I do not believe in romance in a relationship. More precisely, it can be present but only at the beginning of a relationship, romance is followed by addiction and routine. One way to get out of such a routine is to have a variety of leisure activities and experiments in bed. Recently, my husband and I decided to try BDSM, it was something new and forbidden for us. We were inspired by the Alt website for this experiment. You can read the review on it here https://hookupmasters.com/adult-dating-sites/altcom-review/. Now our relationship has come to life and constantly want to experiment. we will try something else new.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Amil

[Epikur]

double

Edited June 12, 2020 by Epikur

[Epikur]

Just now, Epikur said:

@IJB063

Ok let me show you where you are wrong:

I actually can't find anything wrong with your  perception. 

I can only give some ideas which you probably know anyway. Love is basically like the will to survive. In the language of "The Joker" we are like dogs running after the car but we have no idea what to do with the car. The reason seems to be that we follow biological triggers. Though it is not really meaningful  it makes literally sense because our senses are getting triggered.

So what is the bottom line? If you have decided to live you want to follow a path and love is a good enough goal for the lizard brain and for the big brain to keep moving and that is something.

It is mostly frustrating when you "not reach the car" you feel like missing out. Or you "reach the car and it produces pain after awhile. What might be an option is to get it in small dosages and create art with it. Normally the brain creates fantasy on it's own already. Then it's kind of a safe space so that you don't lose everything by making huge mistakes.

One of the reasons why we get addicted to the project of love is because we are bored. If you are already full, love has no place to go in. So it is good to be not to open that is being empty but to be little bit full. Epikur says being intellectually curios is the best method for it. You seem to be on it already so it's good. 

tl dr
It's a drug, story, addiction
Microdose it as a psychedelic and create art that is higher level stories
Channel your energy for intellectual curiosity










 

 

[IJB063]

@Amil

On 11/06/2020 at 0:44 PM, Amil said:

I do not believe in romance in a relationship. More precisely, it can be present but only at the beginning of a relationship, romance is followed by addiction and routine. One way to get out of such a routine is to have a variety of leisure activities and experiments in bed. Recently, my husband and I decided to try BDSM, it was something new and forbidden for us. We were inspired by the Alt website for this experiment. You can read the review on it here https://hookupmasters.com/adult-dating-sites/altcom-review/. Now our relationship has come to life and constantly want to experiment. we will try something else new.

Yeah, that’s my point

The fact that you have to spice things up in the bedroom proves that sex is a drug

And just as a junkie has to progressively up and up his dosage and move to harder drugs, so do you to still enjoy sex with your husband, have to experiment and try forbidden activities 

Romantic love is present at the beginning because that’s when the drug hits hardest, after that it’s all down hill, and you wind up stuck in a family or relationship you’re obligated to continue, given the kids, car, job, dog, house and wife or husband, all those responsibilities, but you don’t actually like it

To keep your relationship alive youre probably, like a junkie, going to have to experiment with kinkier and harder stuff until your either both too older and your sex drives die, or either of you get bored of one another, that either ends in divorce or probable disappointment with life, only because you were sold this scam of romantic love, if you didn’t believe in it you’d have accepted that fact already

[IJB063]

@Epikur

17 minutes ago, Epikur said:

Ok let me show you where you are wrong:

I actually can't find anything wrong with your  perception. 

Let me tell you where you’re wrong

I can’t find where you’re wrong

lol, sorry I haven’t read the rest yet so you’re probably going to explain but I thought that was funny

18 minutes ago, Epikur said:

can only give some ideas which you probably know anyway. Love is basically like the will to survive. In the language of "The Joker" we are like dogs running after the car but we have no idea what to do with the car. The reason seems to be that we follow biological triggers. Though it is not really meaningful  it makes literally sense because our senses are getting triggered.

So what is the bottom line? If you have decided to live you want to follow a path and love is a good enough goal for the lizard brain and for the big brain to keep moving and that is something.

It is mostly frustrating when you "not reach the car" you feel like missing out. Or you "reach the car and it produces pain after awhile. What might be an option is to get it in small dosages and create art with it. Normally the brain creates fantasy on it's own already. Then it's kind of a safe space so that you don't lose everything by making huge mistakes.

The lizard brain just wants you to pass on it’s genes, it doesn’t believe in love

The rational higher mind does, but it’s really a product of our culture, and culture sells you a lie not for your own good but its

I think I get your point, that it’s better to have an aim all though it’s pointless than to have no aim and have nothing to do. You don’t need the aim of romance in life, there is more to life than women or men. A lot of people don’t understand that and cling, because of there lizard brain, to romantic love, when it’s not a real thing. 

 

[IJB063]

@Keyhole

2 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I agree with you that romantic love is a lie.  I think that the sort of love that lasts is something that starts off slow and burns steady and that sort of love could come from a variety of different relationships, not just romantic.

We get sold the fast food version of love via media because everything has gotta be fast, immediately accessible and no road bumps, but that is just not how life works.  But that's the image that sells.

Amen ?

“Fast food version of love”, great quote, everything in modern culture is the fast food version of everything, because that is what sells, the entire point of self actualisation is the understanding that things aren’t immediately accessible and a lot of work has to be put into getting what you want

And I personally find it better that there is no romantic love, it makes thing more interesting and in a weird sense more romantic because of the finiteness of all things, it’s a sort of melancholy that most people are too afraid to accept

[zeroISinfinity]

Romantic Love=conditional Love. 

Since I always enjoyed testing, figuring stuff out. 

When I want to break up with girlfriend this is what I do. Some of the stuff. 

• Placing empty wallet in front of her on desk so she can see it. 
• Placing minimal amounts of food in fridge
• Complaining about future
• Dressing badly
• Calling her and asking her how she is. 

Etc

 

 

[IJB063]

@zeroISinfinity

On 19/06/2020 at 9:44 AM, zeroISinfinity said:

Romantic Love=conditional Love. 

Since I always enjoyed testing, figuring stuff out. 

When I want to break up with girlfriend this is what I do. Some of the stuff. 

• Placing empty wallet in front of her on desk so she can see it. 
• Placing minimal amounts of food in fridge
• Complaining about future
• Dressing badly
• Calling her and asking her how she is. 

Etc

 

 

All love is conditional that’s the point of the thread

Why don’t you just grow some balls and tell her you’re breaking up with her instead of doing all this manipulative bullshit

[remember]

On 1.3.2020 at 4:43 PM, IJB063 said:

In the Western World we have an obsession with the pursuit of happiness

? are you kidding me? maybe if happiness is a happy meal and a coke. 

if you talk about the western world, which wild west are you talking about?

[IJB063]

@remember

4 minutes ago, remember said:

? are you kidding me? maybe if happiness is a happy meal and a coke. 

if you talk about the western world, which wild west are you talking about?

???

I didn’t say we were good at it

[zeroISinfinity]

2 hours ago, IJB063 said:

@zeroISinfinity

All love is conditional that’s the point of the thread

Why don’t you just grow some balls and tell her you’re breaking up with her instead of doing all this manipulative bullshit

Well I done this things when I was younger. Still do them to some extent but mostly to prepare fertile ground. Also I do enjoy doing this things. Now things changed a lot then I was just chimp in Universe exploring. 

Man are not manipulative, woman are. Men are mostly very naive. Man connect and care about relationship not woman. Ofcourse this is generalization but it is mostly true. 

 

[IJB063]

@zeroISinfinity

5 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Well I done this things when I was younger. Still do them to some extent but mostly to prepare fertile ground. Also I do enjoy doing this things. Now things changed a lot then I was just chimp in Universe exploring. 

Man are not manipulative, woman are. Men are mostly very naive. Man connect and care about relationship not woman. Ofcourse this is generalization but it is mostly true. 

 

Why bother with the preface of I did these things when I was younger, followed by I still do them now 

Reminds me of that Mitch Hedberg joke

”I used to do drugs, I still do but I used to too”

6 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

prepare fertile ground

What does that even mean?

6 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Also I do enjoy doing this things

These things are manipulative, if manipulation is for woman you are behaving like a woman

 

[zeroISinfinity]

Love yourself. Why wasting time, why not test her? 

Why beleiving her stories about herself when you can actually check how she actually is. 

If you want to stay with her it's better to actually know reasons why she is staying with you in first place. 

Some girl said here on forum most accurate thing ever. Woman want adventure they are not with you because you are something special or from love. Also survival aspect has biggest role. Being naive will not bring you any good. 

There is saying. In war and love everything is allowed. 

She is with you because of her's subconcious calculation. What serves her. 

So why not take advantage of that? 

Edited June 20, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[Onemanwolfpac]

Romantic love is a cute narrative like the political lie "change!" sheep fall in line. It keeps order. It is a nice story but it is a falsehood. 

[zeroISinfinity]

Yes exactly like most of the stuff we got brainwashed by society and culture. Be your own master. 

Don't manipulate be naive sheep when everyone manipulates and deceives you from birth to death. 

[Bulgarianspirit]

A mere instinct for animals to reproduce.

Reality is often disappointing.

I wish it was different. 

God i would give anything to be in a reality where real love was possible xd. Only your mom or grandmother or sister love you truly. All other thing mostly fall apart a 50 percent divorce rates proves my point better than anything. Humans were never designed to be monogamous. I will just go monk f it. xDD

Edited October 3, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Thestarguitarist14]

Yup, we have all been lied to.

[Thestarguitarist14]

43 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Romantic love is when you have something which the other one likes.

If you don't have anything to offer you are condemned to loneliness.

Obviously there is no such thing as unconditional romantic love.

It has been painfully obvious to me: when I have said the right things the girl has said that she really likes me or loves me, but when I have said one thing wrong she suddenly hates me and ditches me. This has happened to me several times.

So romantic love= saying the right things.

As soon as you say something which she doesn't like the romantic love is poof gone in an instant.

But this is obvious, this shouldn't be any news to anyone. We just wish that there would be some kind of magical unconditional love.

I don’t think you have any idea what romantic love.

 

It is never about saying the right things.  Words are what never reaches a woman’s or a man’s for that matter, heart.  Romantic love is simply a strong attraction that occurs when two people’s attachment style fit to a tee and they believe that they are in love.  Two people think that they are the next Romeo and Juliet even in fact one is a love addict and the other is a love avoidant so their damage matches perfectly.  Then they get married and two years later they hate each other.  
 

Relationships today are so dysfunctional.

[Thestarguitarist14]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Of course it is about saying the right things. Think it through.

No, only inexperienced men/stage orange men think that way. 
 

Go ahead, keep trying to say the right things to a woman.  You will never get her heart.  Probably won’t get her pussy either.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Thestarguitarist14