Romantic Love is a LIE

[LfcCharlie4]

Rupert is AMAZING as always. 

'The COE should change their wedding vowels, so at the end, you simply stare your partner in the eyes and say 'I don't need you. I don't need you for my happiness.' 

'If the peace of your being, is only accessible when you aren't interacting with the world, that's a fragile peace, not a true peace.' 

'It is necessary to take that (inward) understanding out to the world, and not only express this understanding but also test it in a relationship and for most of us intimate relationships. These are the most testing relationships.' 

 

 

[Anubis]

4 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Rupert is AMAZING as always. 

'The COE should change their wedding vowels, so at the end, you simply stare your partner in the eyes and say 'I don't need you. I don't need you for my happiness.' 

'If the peace of your being, is only accessible when you aren't interacting with the world, that's a fragile peace, not a true peace.' 

'It is necessary to take that (inward) understanding out to the world, and not only express this understanding but also test it in a relationship and for most of us intimate relationships. These are the most testing relationships.' 

 

 

[IJB063]

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

it depends on what YOU want on an individual level, if you don't want a romantic relationship then don't have one, but like with most things, it isn't a one size fits all solution. 

We can generalize, there is nothing wrong with generalizing, its your prerogative what you do with your life

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

f you don't know then you haven't experienced being in love, there would be no doubts there if you had I think, plus 16 is really young for a relationship, I would say don't rule out the potential since you are only 18 mate. 

If you say so say so, although you don't really have much of a basis for that, different people can interpret different experiences in different ways

I haven't ruled out any possibilities, that is why I made this post, and have read all the posts in this thread whenever I get the chance, I still haven't responded to some of them

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

finding out what YOU want, not what philosophers wanted, or what anyone else wants. 

That's what I'm doing

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

In regards to your comment about Spirituality, I hate to break it to you but you don't 'Transcend' mundane life post-awakening. A true awakening is when The Ordinary, becomes The Extraordinary. Perfection can be found in EVERYTHING, despite it not being 'Perfect' by the conventional sense of the word. You can't transcend past this life, unless you want to leave this body. But, why do you want to transcend past this life? 

 

Definition of transcendent -

Beyond or above the range of normal or physical human experience

I understand what you saying, I agree with it, I just haven't explained myself very clearly 

Obviously you can't transcend past this life, what would that even be, becoming an alien?

Transcendence, as I mean it is, is a shift in consciousness, away from mundane consciousness, if there was no shift than there would be nothing significant about spirituality, that shift is not normal

Literally in the other other post I made, I made the exact same point as your making on boredom

8 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Also, I used age to indicate the other guys' responses, as they were quite childish. Can you please explain what age has to do within my context? 

Also I don't really care if my posts come across as "childish" or "immature"

You sound like a school hall monitor 

I'm not going to censor myself and have a squeaky clean post and responses, that is boring

This is not an essay, this is for my personal infotainment 

 

 

[IJB063]

17 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

P.S. I dunno what teachers you follow/ read/ listen to, but in your case, I would recommend teachers such as- Rupert Spira, Francis Lucille, Ramaji& Ananda Devi, and Adyshanti. These are fully self-realized beings, a lot of teachers are of course awake, but haven't 'gone all the way' so to speak.

for now, as the language and cultural differences are hard I would stay away from Ramana and Nisgardatta. Only because if you take them literally, it can leave you more confused than before. 

I've made a note, I'll look into them when I get a chance

[topazann]

No love is not a lie it's a sign of hope in your. Heart and longing God gave to us our souls and hearts know when we found the right one we can't let go of them no matter how hard we try he will give you a vision of the one your to be with when you know.

[Fathime]

Love isn't necessarily a mechanism you have to work on to upkeep, but it can be broken, irreversibly in some cases depending on what happens. There will always be split opinion on this topic, but just to put my two cents in as personal experience opened my eyes to something I previously didn't know about myself (5-10 years ago if someone told me I'd feel this I would laugh in their face), you can feel love to a degree where you simply collapse in on yourself if you feel that person goes away. It's the most shattering thing I felt in my life, and I've had more than enough experience by now, am typically a cynical person who doesn't like the whole romantism idea, but sometimes I think that love can strike you hard and knock you out. Love should be universal too, we should care for each other and not harm even those who harm us, try to be the better person. But when it comes to love, I must say I believe in it.

[The observer]

Oh, you don't know...

Of course, when you think about love, it doesn't make sense. You have to experience it. Conditional or unconditional is irrelevant, because all love is conditional in different degrees, even the so-called "God's love" is conditional and it depends on different factors. Love by definition means bias. If you love something, that means you have to hate something else. That's bias. Romantic love is about finding a partner who shares your biases and cares about them the same way you do or more, while at the same time you doing the same thing in return, without expectations from both sides. It's a perfect looking out for each other's best interests, even if the whole world is against either or both of you.

The best metaphor I find is a lock and key. You find someone that completes your imperfections so that you feel perfect and complete, even when they're not there anymore. You may part ways with them, but you never become enemies. Love remains as it was, only it changes in form. Anything short of that is not true love. If you haven't found that yet, then you don't know what love is. The key opens the lock forever. There's no lock anymore.

Of course, you can object to all of that with all sorts of arguments. And no one is forcing you to love or believe in romantic love. But that's my perspective from my experience. Make whatever you want out of it.

[IJB063]

@The observer

8 hours ago, The observer said:

Of course, when you think about love, it doesn't make sense. You have to experience it.

It’s not so obvious as you may think

Most people believe in the Western world hold to the idea romantic love

What I was talking about when I made this post isn’t the experience of romantic love, that’s quite real

But it isn’t, ironically, as romantic as people portray it, it’s actually brutal and pragmatic and care nothing’s for the idealisations that we thrust upon it

Yeah there’s the experience of the high which is romantic love, but there’s also the experience of the high which is heroin, both are malignant crutches, both can be said to fill some void, heroin can be the perfect key for your lock, doesn’t mean it’s a good thing

As a man or a woman you should be completely independent and not reliant upon someone to 

8 hours ago, The observer said:

completes your imperfections

You should be happy with who you are and where you are

And if romantic love isn’t unconditional, and gods love is not unconditional, than how could it be said to be special, therefore it should not be cared for in any special way

For example if you leave your door open and your dog takes that as the perfect opportunity to run away, did that dog ever really love you?

If you marry a woman you love and eventually she fucks some other guy who’s bigger and better, leaves you without skipping a beat, takes all your shit and you’re now leaving out of your car for the next 2 years, did she ever really love you?

If youre a woman and you squeeze out some kids and they grow up and leave the house, and never visit though you’re lonely, and you wither away without even a phone call, did your children ever really love you

Not in anyway that’s significant or deserves any reverence 

Just in a way that in that moment, served a primordial self interest

Thats the way you should look at romantic love

But people don’t like it cause it hurts their fee fees 

Personally I believe the idea of romantic love should be done away with because it’s a servile mentality for the weak and dependent, how can you self actualise if you’re dependent upon somebody else for your happiness and self worth?

Edited May 26, 2020 by IJB063
Autocorrect

[The observer]

1 hour ago, IJB063 said:

@The observer

But it isn’t, ironically, as romantic as people portray it, it’s actually brutal and pragmatic and care nothing’s for the idealisations that we thrust upon it

Yeah there’s the experience of the high which is romantic love, but there’s also the experience of the high which is heroin, both are malignant crutches, both can be said to fill some void, heroin can be the perfect key for your lock, doesn’t mean it’s a good thing

Too many assumptions here. And it's definitely not like heroin. When you have it, you will feel complete and stop seeking more. The high is not addictive by itself like heroin, but the person can get addicted to it. It's on the person to be aware of that. An idiot can get addicted to anything, even very ordinary things like food. That doesn't make food a bad thing, obviously. However, when you find your soul mate, they will cure you even if you are that idiot. Not that they will do anything in particular. Simply their presence is transformative. It's Ineffable. It's like being cured by God.

2 hours ago, IJB063 said:

@The observer

As a man or a woman you should be completely independent and not reliant upon someone to 

You should be happy with who you are and where you are

Certainly, but you shouldn't lie to yourself about it either. If you aren't happy with who you are and where you are, then acknowledge it first. Having these ideals can be counter-productive. No one is born completely independent. It's a work-in-progress, and a soul mate can boost the process. If you can't be independent and happy, that's fine. Your soul mate will understand that and help you grow towards it. They won't try to possess you like other people will, but they will want you to choose them freely without pressuring you to love or accept them. That's the most beautiful and profound thing about it. Because they free you of obligation, you love them even more.

2 hours ago, IJB063 said:

@The observer

And if romantic love isn’t unconditional, and gods love is not unconditional, than how could it be said to be special, therefore it should not be cared for in any special way

Conditions are as important as no-conditions in love. There cannot be love without them, it's simply unmaintainable. Conditions give shape to the relationship and they're good for both partners. But there needs to be communication, which is the easiest thing when you meet the one.

[IJB063]

@The observer

7 hours ago, The observer said:

Too many assumptions here. And it's definitely not like heroin. When you have it, you will feel complete and stop seeking more. The high is not addictive by itself like heroin, but the person can get addicted to it. It's on the person to be aware of that. An idiot can get addicted to anything, even very ordinary things like food. That doesn't make food a bad thing, obviously. However, when you find your soul mate, they will cure you even if you are that idiot. Not that they will do anything in particular. Simply their presence is transformative. It's Ineffable. It's like being cured by God.

List the assumptions and I’ll elaborate on them 

No, it is like heroin, they share many similarities 

https://www.discovermagazine.com/mind/in-the-brain-romantic-love-is-basically-an-addiction

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/loves-effect-on-the-brain-is-as-powerful-as-heroin-2015-10%3Famp

Romantic love is highly addictive 

You don’t feel complete with romantic love, you become very dependent upon it, so much so that many men off themselves when it gets shattered or they go on detox

Also my intention when using the heroin analogy wasn’t to focus on romantic love’s addictive properties, of which it has many, my focus was on the high

Romantic love is a high

That is all it is, not some airy fairy bullshit

Just the primitive biological urge to fuck and have kids

Whats bad is dependency and the need for someone else to you fulfil 

7 hours ago, The observer said:

Certainly, but you shouldn't lie to yourself about it either. If you aren't happy with who you are and where you are, then acknowledge it first. Having these ideals can be counter-productive. No one is born completely independent. It's a work-in-progress, and a soul mate can boost the process. If you can't be independent and happy, that's fine. Your soul mate will understand that and help you grow towards it. They won't try to possess you like other people will, but they will want you to choose them freely without pressuring you to love or accept them. That's the most beautiful and profound thing about it. Because they free you of obligation, you love them even more.

No one is born completely happy. It’s a work-in-progress, and heroin can help boost that process to happiness. If you can’t be sober and happy that’s fine. Your drug dealer will understand and sell you more heroin.

You sound like a junkie trying to justify his addiction.

Just because you are born dependent doesn’t mean you should stay in a state of infancy.

We are adults, those of us who are self actualised do not need any crutches, we can stand on our own two feet.

Romantic spouses are extremely possessive, that’s the entire point of monogamy. Of course you are obliged to act in certain ways and they love will you much less if you don’t conform, hence my point, romantic love is a bullshit lie, that we’re sold to breed.

7 hours ago, The observer said:

Conditions are as important as no-conditions in love. There cannot be love without them, it's simply unmaintainable. Conditions give shape to the relationship and they're good for both partners. But there needs to be communication, which is the easiest thing when you meet the one.

You can’t both have conditions and no conditions

Yes exactly, you can’t have love without conditions, that’s why romantic love is bullshit, you just refuted what you said on the previous paragraph

Yes we require conditions, and what are the conditions TRANSACTIONAL, not because someone looks at you soul and love you for you, no they love you for what you give them, no moment you stop giving that the moment you’re worthless

There is no one

There are no souls mates

[The observer]

@IJB063

It's okay dude. Keep living in your little pit of misery.

[IJB063]

@The observer

I will

its dark down here

[EddieEddie1995]

Replace Romantic Love with Actualization.  Its the same thing. Everything we do, we do it for love. Maybe you need a partner who will show you and triger the "high" feelings you didn't experience before, this is the way to know yourself, or maybe you need to read books and watch Leo so he can do the same. It feels to me that you are avoiding relationship because you got hurt or can't feel the "love" or "heroin high" "they" (not you) are talking about. Im assuming ofcourse

On the other hand, yes! You don't need relationship to be happy, but its a long way to get there. And if you don't need it, it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. 

Its a long way my friend. Be like water my friend ??

[IJB063]

@modmyth

10 hours ago, modmyth said:

@IJB063

I have started writing more about this issue, starting with this post:

And another post which I wrote earlier today, which is related:

Definitely, there is something childlike about that particular notion of unconditional love, where you spend your whole life standing around waiting to receive it. I call it waiting around for a payout. Or in general when it comes to human interactions, playing the toll collector, which is expecting love or understanding as a sort of payment for what you give out (or alternatively, simply for existing). It's not a winning strategy; as in it's not practical. It's miserly by design. 

So literally, be the love and understanding that you want to see in the world, to receive from others, etc.

Give freely, or don't give at all. (Ironically but not accidentally, this is actually a display of a sort of unconditional love).

 

I read the posts you linked

I say that as mammals and biological creatures there is nothing that we can do for purely altruistic motives, just for the benefit of others

There is always a deeply primitive, biological reasoning behind all of our actions

Even cemented into the very evolutionary process, is this brutal, pragmatic, efficient process by which that which doesn’t optimally fulfil our Darwinian imperative is selected out of the gene pool

For example, take self sacrifice, someone who is a martyr, or a dog who dies defending its master

If the act of self sacrifice had no biological benefit, than the martyr and dog have just selected themselves out of the gene pool, those traits that made them on the surface seem altruistic, but when you peer behind the curtain, they cant possibly be

Of course any functional relationship should be built upon a healthy amount of reciprocity, e.g. mutual respect, desire and understanding 

This does not mean that you do it for unconditional reasons/freely, you do it in the hopes that you’ll receive dividends on your investment

If you do treat all people with this philosophy you will otherwise soon bankrupt yourself (if you understand my analogy) 

What you’re saying is similar to Gandhi’s 

“Be the change you wish to see in the world”

The issue with that is it doesn’t work, because the world doesn’t give a fuck, and will chew you up and spit you out when you attempt that shit, it’s a good philosophy for those who want to live in misery and as failures

10 hours ago, modmyth said:

I'm not really onboard with biological determinism though (or is it biological pessimism?) I find this way of processing rather lazy; like you settled for reality as it presents itself but can't fully accept that you do have the power to influence experience. When you truly accept something, the "making an issue" of it is dissolved.

Also, consciousness itself transforms the so-called biological imperative and everything else with it, even though it is a sort of lens of perception for our experience as humans. If you truly inhabit it in high consciousness. But even "relatively unconscious" biological drives exist in interaction with our consciousness. It's not a one-way relationship, nothing is. It's not our god.

Looking to the past for proof of the future is a recipe for misery. Looking around you for proof of the best possible reality is also a recipe for misery. You don't have to do the opposite though, which is putting on the blinders. 

The best possible reality starts with you, realistically speaking. If you can manage to make this idea of 'romance' sustainable, it's probably because of you.

I haven’t settled for anything, I’m acting upon the way in which the world presents itself to me, and I don’t think if you look at the world with detached eyes that you’ll find it’s optimistic

Maybe it’s better to live in ignorance but the truth will set you free, and I prefer freedom than bliss

Biology is our current understanding of consciousness, it’s not our god, it’s the meta physical forces that are placed upon us of which we had no say and possibly could never even fathomably have a say

The unconscious effects of our consciousness still exist within consciousness, it is a figment of our conscious experience, the same with the subconscious 

I’d argue that we are mostly subconscious and unconscious creatures, the only substantive thing that separates us from the animals is our neo cortex and higher brain, our ability to abstract and communicate effectively 

Besides that we are just impulsive, base biological animals 

Animals don’t do anything purely out of love so how could we

Also

10 hours ago, modmyth said:

Looking to the past for proof of the future is a recipe for misery

How can you predict the future without looking at the past?

Legitmately curious

Im not looking for the best possible reality, I’m looking for reality, if there is such a thing

I try to not have blinders

I don’t think that I’ll ever make the idea of romance sustainable, if I ever have a long term monogamous relationship with a woman, it’ll be out of fondness, respect and mutual desire, never out of “unconditional” love, as that is not possible and I don’t expect it from her, and I’d prefer that the two of us wouldn’t lie to each other, play make believe and pretend that we’ve magically achieved some idealised version of love, that our souls are some how magically connected

We’re just people, and we’re all gonna die, and be forgotten, but for the time being we can take pleasure in each others company, I think that’s more romantic than the shit we’re sold today

[IJB063]

 

[IJB063]

@EddieEddie1995

7 hours ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

Replace Romantic Love with Actualization.  Its the same thing. Everything we do, we do it for love. Maybe you need a partner who will show you and triger the "high" feelings you didn't experience before, this is the way to know yourself, or maybe you need to read books and watch Leo so he can do the same. It feels to me that you are avoiding relationship because you got hurt or can't feel the "love" or "heroin high" "they" (not you) are talking about. Im assuming ofcourse

 I need to watch that Leo Love video again, for why “everything we do is for love” because it seems to me that it’s faulty.
I’m not avoiding relationships

If the special girl comes along that’s great, I’m just not going to believe in the soul mate shit

To be fair I do have a weird thing with girls where the moment I know they’ve become interested in me I lose interest

Ive only ever shagged 3 girls, I’m 19 btw, so I’m not talking from a well of experience, but I relate to 

The saying - “I wouldn’t want to be part of any club that would have me”

Because the moment I can join, I want the next best thing

So maybe there’s some mental fuckery going on there

7 hours ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

Its a long way my friend. Be like water my friend

Okay ? 

Thats sounds like some Bruce Lee shit

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by IJB063

[IJB063]

6 hours ago, EddieEddie1995 said:

or maybe you need to read books and watch Leo so he can do the same.

Watch Leo and he can do the same 

lol

 

[EddieEddie1995]

 

18 hours ago, IJB063 said:

On 5/27/2020 at 10:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

or maybe you need to read books and watch Leo so he can do the same.

Watch Leo and he can do the same 

lol

 

Hahhahahaha YOu know what I meant Although I can't say Leo didn't help haha 

18 hours ago, IJB063 said:

To be fair I do have a weird thing with girls where the moment I know they’ve become interested in me I lose interest

Ive only ever shagged 3 girls, I’m 19 btw, so I’m not talking from a well of experience, but I relate to 

The saying - “I wouldn’t want to be part of any club that would have me”

Because the moment I can join, I want the next best thing

So maybe there’s some mental fuckery going on there

The mind fuckery is real ! Its a loop ! I will tell you my story, and tell me if you can relate  And,  its probably off the topic because I only red few comments, but never mind... I hope it helps  

Long story short. I got traumatized often when I was a child and that created a split where: 1. I em mad, angry and hurt and I want revenge and 2. I want to do good to people who are hurt because I know how it feels. So because I was punished for the "bad" things and reveorded for the "good" things I created Stage Blue Trauma that was running my whole life. To feel love I need to prove myself, but I can't get the love because Im the one sabotaging it . And ofc I blame others . Then I hurt them because Im hurt, and then I blame myself for being bad. So again... I  need to prove myself that Im good so I can feel love, but deep  down I know that Im bad and don't diserve it .And this went on until I got  depressed (I couldn't love myself so I blamed myself for that -.-)  .  I started pushing people away because even though they loved me , I  cant feel it , so because I cant pretend  and give back I pushed them away . Every girl that loved me I push her away, every girl that doesen't I chase . Its a loop! 

Conclusions  

The love that I thought was love was constructed In my head. I didn't felt the love I theorized about it because there was automatic reaction where I needed to think "do I diserve it or not?" instead of feeling it ....

I pushed people away because I felt that the game Im was playing I always lost. This is why Actualized gave me feelings I did't felt before I started working on myself etc. But also it was an escape where I fed the voice in my head "ohh you see, you don't need others, you can do it by yourself" "I will prove myself etc" ... so I feel that you are doing the same 

I see that you are trying to prove your self to you ( you need to confirm that idea that you don't need "conditional love" from others, you can do it on yourself )  , and  not to the people on the forum(but of course, you are projecting that ). This is why it feels to me that you seem arrogant(lack of love trying to get some love) , and this is why maybe some people are "opposing" you because you just can't drop the idea that you are maybe wrong (but consider that this people here are more conscious, in your daily life I bet you get into arguments and fights :P), and it became a debate where everyone is holding their position  . This is what I meant when I said be like water my friend  Im young too. Im 24. I started Actualizing 2 years ago , and what made me grow so much last years is that I started holding my ideology loosely, I can't say I stopped debating because it is uncounscious deffensive mechanism, but I spend more time reflecting, observing and changing my behavior, and not debating that robes my growth  

Keep it up my friend ! I wish I was debating those things when I was 19 haha instead of playing LOL and jurking off to porn  

 

[IJB063]

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

To feel love I need to prove myself, but I can't get the love because Im the one sabotaging it . And ofc I blame others . Then I hurt them because Im hurt, and then I blame myself for being bad. So again... I  need to prove myself that Im good so I can feel love, but deep  down I know that Im bad and don't diserve it .And this went on until I got  depressed (I couldn't love myself so I blamed myself for that -.-)  .  I started pushing people away because even though they loved me , I  cant feel it , so because I cant pretend  and give back I pushed them away . Every girl that loved me I push her away, every girl that doesen't I chase . Its a loop! 

I feel as though I can relate somewhat to this, I tend not to blame others though, I blame myself for my own failures

I wouldn’t say a girl has ever “loved” me though

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

The love that I thought was love was constructed In my head. I didn't felt the love I theorized about it because there was automatic reaction where I needed to think "do I diserve it or not?" instead of feeling it ....

I

I don’t relate to “do I deserve it or not” though, it’s just when a girl becomes interested in me I lose interest almost instantly, because a girl who be worth my time wouldn’t be interested in me

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

pushed people away because I felt that the game Im was playing I always lost. This is why Actualized gave me feelings I did't felt before I started working on myself etc. But also it was an escape where I fed the voice in my head "ohh you see, you don't need others, you can do it by yourself" "I will prove myself etc" ... so I feel that you are doing the same 

No I don’t think so

How it an escape to be happy with yourself?

I don’t consider that arrogance  

I’m know I’m great

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

see that you are trying to prove your self to you ( you need to confirm that idea that you don't need "conditional love" from others, you can do it on yourself )  , and  not to the people on the forum(but of course, you are projecting that ). This is why it feels to me that you seem arrogant(lack of love trying to get some love) , and this is why maybe some people are "opposing" you because you just can't drop the idea that you are maybe wrong (but consider that this people here are more conscious, in your daily life I bet you get into arguments and fights :P), and it became a debate where everyone is holding their position  .

Maybe I’m wrong

The debates interesting because someone who might be reading this can weigh what I’m saying and what others are saying and come to there own conclusions 

And it’s not like it’s a bad thing to debate, especially if it’s in text and saved because you can go back through this stuff and see people’s thought processes

I avoid getting into debates with people, 90% of the time, unless they ask for my opinion

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

This is what I meant when I said be like water my friend  Im young too. Im 24. I started Actualizing 2 years ago , and what made me grow so much last years is that I started holding my ideology loosely, I can't say I stopped debating because it is uncounscious deffensive mechanism, but I spend more time reflecting, observing and changing my behavior, and not debating that robes my growth  

You can debate and reflect, observe etc...

Debates are meaningless most of the time if your trying to change people’s mind, but in a forum when people make points and I respond to them, if I say something stupid then people can point that out and say where I’m wrong and I can come back to that and change my opinion 

On 28/05/2020 at 11:54 AM, EddieEddie1995 said:

Keep it up my friend ! I wish I was debating those things when I was 19 haha instead of playing LOL and jurking off to porn  

Cheers bud 

Your doing good stuff anyway with this post, seems like you’ve done some introspective work

 

[Onemanwolfpac]

I don't know. Its not something I am aware of. Its explosive, furniture breaking, and destroying bedposts. Its all short lived fling. Longevity like say our grandparents 50+ years is a rarity. It was before apps, lower promiscuity, and far less opportunity. Its an attempt to keep social order.