Debunking Solipsism confusion All is one in a positive way

[charles1]

And at the same time, you're conscious of the same "Leo" avatar the "Charles1" avatar is conscious of... In the end , Who does truly exist ? LoL

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The mind cannot intellectually go there.

Thanks, the debate is over ! 

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, charles1 said:

Fucking paradox...  Don't make any sense from my perspective...  If I buy into it, It means that the "Leo" character I imagine is so well imagined that he is conscious of the fact that there is only him and no Me to learn from him. ???????? 

And for the reader of this comment ( if I'm not talking to myself ), there is a triple paradox and the "Charles1" character is so well imagined that it images a "Leo" character that is conscious that nothing but him exist ????? ?????? ???? ???? 

I think I simply can't fathom it from my relative perspective. 

It's very simple. The only thing that exists in the universe is what's in your experience this second. The end.

You have absolute access to the whole of Creation at all times. But the trick is, the whole of Creation is nothing other than what you see now. No object has a backside. If you can't see it, it does not exist. Very similar to how a video game is rendered. There is nothing more but the rendered POV.

That means you image the moon, the stars, the Earth, trees, clouds, your parents, your first day at school, your car, your pet dog who died, that time you went to the dentist, your last meal, that time you had sex, etc. You are imagining all those things right now in order to create the illusion of reality. Because that's all you are: infinite consciousness.

[charles1]

@Leo Gura  How can you believe that and talk to me ?  ( + the certainty I have that you're not in my direct experience and thus that I solely exist ? ) 

Am I imagining all this, Am i imagining that you're imagining all this ? 

 

It is useless to continue I think... can't understand it without experiencing it. 

[Ya know]

@Leo Gura Reality is a dream and we imagine ourselves

[charles1]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No object has a backside.

WOW, ok, I'm out for now. I'm not conscious enough to see the difference between that and solipsism

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, charles1 said:

@Leo Gura  How can you believe that and talk to me ?  ( + the certainty I have that you're not in my direct experience and thus that I solely exist ? )

I don't believe it. It simply is the case. Literally.

You are here. Nothing more. The end. What you see is precisely what there is.

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Am I imagining all this, Am i imagining that you're imagining all this ? 

Of course.

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It is useless to continue I think... can't understand it without experiencing it. 

It's not hard to understand. It's just so radical you don't want it to be true.

You probably don't like the idea of being all alone, forever. Which is why you imagine me! Ta-da! Clever devil.

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, charles1 said:

WOW, ok, I'm out for now. I'm not conscious enough to see the difference between that and solipsism

The difference is, you are God.

This part requires serious awakening to see.

What is God? You are not conscious of that at all.

Ask yourself this simple question: have you ever seen the back side of an object, ever?

Well, there you go. The answer is so obvious it was right under your nose the whole time. Stop asusming stuff which isn't literally here.

[Free Mind]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Like I said, the mind cannot fathom Awakening so it tries to fit it into some category it knows, like solipsism.

Awakening is not solipsism, but it's also true that you/God is the only thing that exists. So to you that sounds like solipsism and you can't tell the difference.

To create that distinction between the absolute and the relative is already a mistake. The relative isn't real. Only the absolute.

Yeah, if you want to qualify as "relative", then we can say that you are not alone. But this is precisely the illusion which we're trying to transcend.

It's sort of like if you said, "Yeah, I understand that Santa Claus isn't real in the absolute sense. But in the relative world he's real." Okay, but what we're interested in is the absolute sense here, not the relative world of illusions. As an illusion, sure, everyone you know seems "real".

No, you're not correct.

You imagine that there is a person who imagines you. But actually there is only you imagining others imagining you.

When you talk to someone you imagine, you are imagining that person's body too, not just their mind.

To put frame it another way, your imagination is so powerful it IS reality! Right now you're still under the dualistic illusion that there is a difference between imagination and reality. As if imagination is somehow inferior or bad. But the difference between reality and imagination is itself something you imagine! This is what allows you/God to create reality out of thin air. Ta-da!

Where did all the people you know come from? They were NOT born from biological parents. They were imagined by your mind! If you stop imagining them, they will cease to exist.

What makes Awakening very different than classical solipsism is the God part. Classical solipsism has no recognition of self as God. Once you reach God-consciousness, the solipsism stuff becomes pretty irrelevant because you are so amazed at yourself as God.

So what are you then? If I stab you in the eye you’re gonna be in serious pain. Are you saying that I’m just imagining the visual image of your body and there’s actually no one who’s conscious of that pain? 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Free Mind

[Rinne]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You know crashing the virtual plane makes no difference at all. Yet you still try to fly carefully, avoiding virtual trees and stuff.

??ode

[Rinne]

50 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have absolute access to the whole of Creation at all times. But the trick is, the whole of Creation is nothing other than what you see now. No object has a backside. If you can't see it, it does not exist. Very similar to how a video game is rendered. There is nothing more but the rendered POV.

That means you image the moon, the stars, the Earth, trees, clouds, your parents, your first day at school, your car, your pet dog who died, that time you went to the dentist, your last meal, that time you had sex, etc. You are imagining all those things right now in order to create the illusion of reality. Because that's all you are: infinite consciousness.

... Speechless 

42 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You probably don't like the idea of being all alone, forever. Which is why you imagine me! Ta-da! Clever devil.

This is a hard feeling to stomach. I felt this and had to distract myself from it. I wont forgot that day i looked out the window and had this experience/realization dawn on me. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Rinne

[Inliytened1]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple. The only thing that exists in the universe is what's in your experience this second. The end.

You have absolute access to the whole of Creation at all times. But the trick is, the whole of Creation is nothing other than what you see now. No object has a backside. 

Its absolutely marvelous when you get it.  Its pure brilliance   

 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Rinne said:

... Speechless 

This is a hard feeling to stomach. 

Yes because taking it all the way is death.  

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Free Mind said:

So what are you then?

I am your own consciousness.

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If I stab you in the eye you’re gonna be in serious pain.

Yes, you will imagine it to be so, and so it will appear to you.

That's what "stab you in the eye" means. It means you're imagining an other who is getting stabbed by an imaginary you.

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Are you saying that I’m just imagining the visual image of your body and there’s actually no one who’s conscious of that pain? 

Obviously you're imagining my body and my pain.

What's less obvious is that you are also imagining your body. If you pay close attention you can notice that right now you are imagining your heart. You have no heart until we cut your chest open, at which point you will imagine a heart there, and it will appear. << This is what we call reality.

And thus the illusion of reality is created. You imagine everything at precisely the moment it is needed to render the illusion. A video game engine does not render anything other than those pixels necessary to create the current frame.

Why would God waste its time creating things it cannot see?? In fact, the problem runs even deeper: it is impossible for God to do that because God is omniscient. So God cannot hide from its own awareness. Anything God creates must be fully accessible to it at all times. If a coffee table had a backside, God would have to be aware of it. So if God wants to see a coffee table from one angle, it must create only that face of the coffee table and nothing else.

4 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its absolutely marvelous when you get it.  Its pure brilliance  

You got it

[OBEler]

30 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Why would God waste its time creating things it cannot see?? In fact, the problem runs even deeper: it is impossible for God to do that because God is omniscient. So God cannot hide from its own awareness. Anything God creates must be fully accessible to it at all times. If a coffee table had a backside, God would have to be aware of it.

So a coffee table has a backside because god is omniscient and created this 3D space time object called coffee table and has full access to every little detail (atoms, structure, energy, spirit whatever).. But when I as an imagined person look at a coffee table, I (not God) just imagine the backside of a coffee table. Because I dont have access to the backside of the coffee table with my eyes (I would if I could have x-ray vision).

But in fact the backside of a coffee table is still there thanks to God who is omniscient.  Did I understood you correctly? 

Edited March 23, 2020 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, OBEler said:

So a coffee table has a backside because god is omniscient and created this 3D space time object called coffee table and has full access to every little detail (atoms, structure, energy, spirit whatever).. But when I as an imagined person look at a coffee table, I (not God) just imagine the backside of a coffee table. Because I dont have access to the backside of the coffee table with my eyes (I would if I could have x-ray vision).

But in fact the backside of a coffee table is still there thanks to God who is omniscient.  Did I understood you correctly? 

No!

You are still in the trap of imagining God as some other magical thing somewhere behind the scene, holding stuff in his mind but only revealing parts of it to you.

No!

There is no behind the scene! This is all there is! What you see is the whole universe right now.

If you only see one side, the coffee table only has one side. If you were to see 10 sides, that's how many sides a coffee table would have at that moment in time.

It's not that you don't have access to the backside of the table. It's that you have access to the fact that there is no backside, only the side you're seeing. That's what is. That's Absolute Truth. The rest is thoughts.

You are God. God sees precisely whatever you see. Nothing more!

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura 

I talk here from limited human form perspective in this relative world:  what is when two imaginated people look at the coffee table at the same time, the one from the frontside the other from the backside, the coffee table has then a backside in this moment because one of them is aware of the backside. Correct?

And what about the corona virus? this should not exist for me because I as limited human am not aware of it. Therefore it should not be there. But I can still die from it.

And what about the internet, no one is aware of it right now but it still functions if you open a website.

So there is something behind the scene which I as limited human being am not aware of. Correct?

Edited March 23, 2020 by OBEler

[zeroISinfinity]

Yeah MYSELF.

Some misconceptions. You do not perceive, you are. 

Awareness is not a Camera it's Love quite literally. 

Even notion of body is quite false what you are is pure Consciousness. Unlimited Being. 

Enlightenment is not nihilistic devoid flat thing just to stop any ?. 

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[remember]

mine is radius 3mm pure magnetism.

[Free Mind]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I am your own consciousness.

Yes, you will imagine it to be so, and so it will appear to you.

That's what "stab you in the eye" means. It means you're imagining an other who is getting stabbed by an imaginary you.

Obviously you're imagining my body and my pain.

What's less obvious is that you are also imagining your body. If you pay close attention you can notice that right now you are imagining your heart. You have no heart until we cut your chest open, at which point you will imagine a heart there, and it will appear. << This is what we call reality.

And thus the illusion of reality is created. You imagine everything at precisely the moment it is needed to render the illusion. A video game engine does not render anything other than those pixels necessary to create the current frame.

Why would God waste its time creating things it cannot see?? In fact, the problem runs even deeper: it is impossible for God to do that because God is omniscient. So God cannot hide from its own awareness. Anything God creates must be fully accessible to it at all times. If a coffee table had a backside, God would have to be aware of it. So if God wants to see a coffee table from one angle, it must create only that face of the coffee table and nothing else.

You got it

Okay, so quite literally whatever my awareness is on is the only thing that exists? This increasingly makes sense to me because of psychedelic experiences and understanding sciences like qp and neuroscience. But there’s one thing that I struggle with most and can’t seem to reconcile: if I fly over to Vegas and actually stab you in the eye, you’ll report your subjective experience. Yet you say that I’m just imagining some body with a mind (which is a concept on top of the body’s visual appearance). So that subjectivity that you report to me; all the awakenings that you have, I don’t have access to any of it. So what is that?
 

Basically, how do you reconcile the imagination of others with their reports of having subjective experience? 

Edited March 23, 2020 by Free Mind

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura 

I talk here from limited human form perspective in this relative world:  what is when two imaginated people look at the coffee table at the same time, the one from the frontside the other from the backside, the coffee table has then a backside in this moment because one of them is aware of the backside. Correct?

No, not correct.

You're imagining people, self, other, and the other's mind.

There is only you looking at the coffee table and imagining the other looking at it. In this case, the coffee table still only has one side.

If you ask the other person to describe another side of the coffee table, you will hear some words, but the coffee table will still only have one side.

To be even more precisely, there is not even a "you" looking at the side of a coffee table. There is only the side of the coffee table without a "you" who is "looking". "You" and "looking" are already an illusions of the ego.

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And what about the corona virus? this should not exist for me because I as limited human am not aware of it. Therefore it should not be there. But I can still die from it.

But it DOES exist for you because you're imagining viruses, atoms, molecules, immune systems, etc.

Imagination is extremely complex. It's as complex as reality itself. You don't have to literally see a virus for it to affect you because it affects you in many ways besides through vision.

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And what about the internet, no one is aware of it right now but it still functions if you open a website.

So there is something behind the scene which I as limited human being am not aware of. Correct?

There is nothing behind the scene. Ask yourself why a behind the scene is necessary? It's totally extraneous. Everything that exists is PRECISELY what it appears.