Debunking Solipsism confusion All is one in a positive way

[Bulgarianspirit]

 

I saw topics on the forums and experienced this myself when starting the spiritual journey. Solipsism aka all is in my head is a misconception that can lead people to madness and pain. I saw this topic adressed incorectly in the forums and thought i can help remedy this issue.God or consciousness is infinite as Leo Gura pointed out.However all the points inside are conscious. Every person is experiencing an ego just like you. A sense of self,thoughts a feeling of separate experience. Not just people animas trees plants and other beings as well. So yeah thats what is revealed a being of pure infinite experiencing itself through us.Have a good one and love others as yourself because they are you.

[Nahm]

@Bulgarianspirit Beautiful video! Subscribed, thanks! 

[Leo Gura]

Solipsism is not awakening. The mistake is thinking that what I'm talking about is solipism when I never made such a claim.

The mind desperately wants some way to understand awakening so it grabs at every philosophical system is can: solipsism, nihilism, panpsychism, Buddhism, etc. And all of that is not awakening.

[BETGR164128]

@Leo Gura I agree. Your teaching is the exact opposite of Solipsism as far as I'm aware. People who make these assumptions against you don't understand how the human mind works and hypnotises us all into individual imaginary realities. 

[Bulgarianspirit]

Yes this is true the teaching Leo is spreading is oneness not solipsism.However i saw five different topics in which people were mistaking the two through misunderstanding the role of ego.They were scared and anxious as they didn't go down enough.I hope this topic makes it clear for beginners who are confused and can't fathom what they saw.

Edited March 1, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Javfly33]

@Bulgarianspirit One last objection... I am aware that other's including me are consciousness. That is not solipsism but non duality in fact. However consciousness is having the POV of a person space, in this sense it's a kind of solipsism because for your experience there's only this POV. That's what I still find unsettling.

[Bulgarianspirit]

48 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Bulgarianspirit One last objection... I am aware that other's including me are consciousness. That is not solipsism but non duality in fact. However consciousness is having the POV of a person space, in this sense it's a kind of solipsism because for your experience there's only this POV. That's what I still find unsettling.

However when you become enlightened you will see the other egos of your universal self are also having this POV.And not just people animals,insects etc.Consciousness is not limited to humans.Furthermore if you didn't start this life from this POV you wouldn't think you were human would you

Edited March 2, 2020 by Bulgarianspirit

[Javfly33]

3 hours ago, Bulgarianspirit said:

However when you become enlightened you will see the other egos of your universal self are also having this POV.And not just people animals,insects etc.Consciousness is not limited to humans.Furthermore if you didn't start this life from this POV you wouldn't think you were human would you

Thanks, that is something I need to contemplate. I'm sure the 'joke' will make sense at the end 

[Gsk]

@BETGR164128 @Leo Gura In his What is God part 2 video, at 24:02 he says "There are no human beings. Human beings don't exist". How the Fuck is that NOT solipsism??
These words of his have caused me immense suffering. I can't talk to anyone. I  can't do anything. I can't function at all because I am constantly doubting other people's existence 24/7. All because of Leo's words here. This loneliness is fucking killing me.  There is only 1 thing keeping me from killing myself right this very second, that is this:

at 24:09, he says "What you call human beings and the thing you think you are as a human being, this is the universe being sentient of itself, this is God-consciousness."

If 'other people' are the universe being aware of itself, does that not mean other people are real, because they are conscious?? This is what I will never understand. If they absolutely are conscious,  How do they NOT exist?

I am truly suffering. Please, Leo, I am begging you, have some fucking compassion for once and help me. I guess in a way, if you truly believed this yourself, you wouldn't continue making videos, because there would be no one to watch them. But even while seeing that, I am still struggling with this extremely.

Someone, anyone, help me with this.  I cannot take this torturous loneliness any longer. I am desperate. I just want this nightmare to finally fucking end.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Gsk

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@Gsk Okay, look. It’s like this: You are God, experiencing itself currently from Gsk’s point of view.  I am God currently experiencing itself from Chase’s point of view.   Gsk’s and my point of view are only 2 out of an infinite number of points of view within the mind of God, and all the other people you come in contact with are other points of view within God’s mind, because absolute infinity includes a reality where you as God are experiencing itself from that other person’s point of view.  
 

When we say that humans don’t exist, all we mean is that the concept of a human is simply that: a concept. It is a relative notion. That is not to say that other people don’t exist as another point of view within reality. 
 

Solipsism is the idea that the only point of view that exists is yours and that all the people you come in contact with have no point of view of their own and that they are essentially philosophical zombies.  This is simply false, and it doesn’t even come close to the truth that is realized during awakening.  
 

You mustn’t take Leo’s words so seriously to the degree that your entire life can be thrown into turmoil over a simple misunderstanding of the theory. Investigate these truths for yourself. 

[Gsk]

@The Lucid Dreamer Thank you for responding.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but after thinking deeply about what you've said, it sounds like you're implying that all of these infinite points of view are real.

The problem is, according to Leo, they are all completely imaginary. In the video I mentioned, he literally says this multiple times.  For example, he talks about being skeptical of your parents being real. This is where I am deeply stuck.

If God is truly gaining something from having all these imaginary points of view, then perhaps they can't all be 100% imaginary, perhaps they can't all be 100% fake like he constantly says.

But, if it's just the concept of humans that is imaginary, not the actual point of view of them like you said, then that's obviously totally different. I just wish he would say it in a way that isn't so damn misleading and therfore sound so horrifying and depressing.

I find it to be a joke that on the front page of this website, it says "How to create a profound life". If he keeps wording his "teachings" in this way, the only thing that is profound is the pain, loneliness and subsequent suffering his words cause.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by Gsk

[The Lucid Dreamer]

@Gsk I wouldn’t get so caught up on the notion of “real” or “imaginary”. When we say that things are imaginary, all we mean is that they are relative, and only exist for the one who is observing it or making it into a “thing”.  If your mother exists for you, then she exists for you from your ego’s point of view and vice versa. You as God are living a life where you were born to your mother, and you as God are living the life of your mother who birthed you and cared for you through your upbringing.  These points of view are as real as anything could be.

After all, if we say that everything is “imaginary”, that term only makes sense in contrast to it’s opposite.  So if we said that your mother is imaginary, you have to ask “as opposed to what?” What is imagined aka what is experienced is as real as real can be.  The duality of real and imaginary collapses into a unity as do all dualities.  Your life is true and real. It’s just not ULTIMATELY true.  It’s relatively true. The ultimate truth is that all there really is is consciousness/the present moment, and everything else is concept which can be interpreted differently from view point to view point. Your life is conceptual.  But that doesn’t mean it’s not real.  
 

But like I said, don’t get so caught up on these ideas of “real” or “imaginary”.  Just spend all your time contemplating what Absolute Infinity really means, and the answers to these questions will become clear to you.  

[OBEler]

Quote

But, if it's just the concept of humans that is imaginary, not the actual point of view of them like you said, then that's obviously totally different. I just wish he would say it in a way that isn't so damn misleading and therfore sound so horrifying and depressing.

Exactly. I ABSOLUTELY understand you. Leo is very good teacher, the one problem with it is when he repeats and repeats in almost EVERY video that all is imaginary. This is brainwashing. He should be careful  because you can easily misunderstand him here. He should use sometimes other words, phrases or analogs like spirit, life force, consciousness or whatever. A little variation. But he chooses the  scariest word: imaginary. Everything is imaginary. these words will burn in your brain. Why not saying sometimes everything is magic? 

The problem is, your subconscious mind made a belief about it and then it is hard to change, even through logic. All I can say to you: have faith. That you will come back to reality, it takes just time. You are trapped right now in your beliefs. The final truth will show  to you anyway what leo really means by this so keep going. 

 

Edit: ok leo has sometimes variations. He says also everything is love/ infinity/ god. Maybe this phrase "Everything is imaginary" I just rememberes the most or he says it lately a little bit more often.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by OBEler

[Leo Gura]

Be careful.

The person in the above video is not awake and his explaining is incorrect.

There are no others. Period. It's only you imagining stuff.

But awakening is far more radical than simple solipsism.

[Javfly33]

10 hours ago, OBEler said:

Exactly. I ABSOLUTELY understand you. Leo is very good teacher, the one problem with it is when he repeats and repeats in almost EVERY video that all is imaginary. This is brainwashing. He should be careful  because you can easily misunderstand him here. He should use sometimes other words, phrases or analogs like spirit, life force, consciousness or whatever. A little variation. But he chooses the  scariest word: imaginary. Everything is imaginary. these words will burn in your brain. Why not saying sometimes everything is magic? 

The problem is, your subconscious mind made a belief about it and then it is hard to change, even through logic. All I can say to you: have faith. That you will come back to reality, it takes just time. You are trapped right now in your beliefs. The final truth will show  to you anyway what leo really means by this so keep going. 

 

Edit: ok leo has sometimes variations. He says also everything is love/ infinity/ god. Maybe this phrase "Everything is imaginary" I just rememberes the most or he says it lately a little bit more often.

 

 

@OBEler What is really what is scary about the concept "imaginary"?

Notice that the one who is scared is the ego who has a lot of at stake. Really how mindfuck reality is is not a problem as long as Ego is not trying to make it "his way". I honestly haven´t experienced in my direct experience that "is all imagination" but I am not denying it could. I would have to go way deeper to reach such place. But I do know one thing for sure and is that any notion of how reality is is only risky for the ego. You should be skeptic of emotional reactions or thoughts like "This can´t really be true, why Leo says this. He shouldn´t really be saying this". This is the ego showing signs of being scared for reality being a certain way. At the end reality will be what it has to be. Either ego submits to truth or keep living in delusion. But all I want to say is that is only ego the one who is making a problem out of this. It´s really no problem even if my parents wouldn´t exist aslong as an ego i dont have an agenda of why my parents must exist. Because obviously my agenda includes my grounding in physical reality, which is a basic pillar for my life as entity/individual.

[Gsk]

@Elijah Gura I don't care about physical objects being imaginary, it's only other beings that I will NEVER be okay with. If that's just my ego saying that, so be it, idgaf.

 If every single thing is made of consciousness, then I will never understand how other beings could be imaginary, since at the deepest level, they are literally made of the only thing that is real. How can something absolutely real be imaginary, just because it's expressing itself in a different form?

 

@The Lucid DreamerI can kind of see what you're saying, so I appreciate that. it's just very difficult to get out of this horrible mess I've been in for so long.

 

 @Leo Gura You are truly truly sick. Your videos are literally the worst possible thing for my mental health. I am done with your repulsive content.  I'll never know how you could ever sleep at night, let alone function. What you're constantly saying is true is narcissistic insanity. If I honestly stated exactly how I felt about you, I would likely be kicked off this website instantly. Not that it really even matters at this point since I'll probably never feel any desire to return to it.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gsk

[RendHeaven]

@Gsk Leo's words are not meant to be taken as beliefs.

You are currently trying to reconcile his words as beliefs.

Drop them.

Besides, you acknowledge that they are not helpful to you.

So drop them.

I'm seeing a lot of blaming coming from you.

Quit externalizing your pain. Leo hasn't "done" anything "to" you. You're making that up.

He's literally just a dude talking to a video camera.

There's nothing to be enraged about.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Gsk said:

 

 @Leo Gura You are truly truly sick. Your videos are literally the worst possible thing for my mental health. I am done with your repulsive content.  I'll never know how you could ever sleep at night, let alone function. What you're constantly saying is true is narcissistic insanity. If I honestly stated exactly how I felt about you, I would likely be kicked off this website instantly. Not that it really even matters at this point since I'll probably never feel any desire to return to it.

This is highly advanced work for serious people.

If you can't stomach it, find some newbie self-help teachings.

This works assumes you are mentally stable and grounded. My teachings are not suitable for people struggling to make it through their day.

And watch your disrespectful and accusatory tone.

If the idea of solipsism triggers you, you got a lot of work to do.

[Shadowraix]

@Gsk Sorry to hear that you're going through a lot. I don't think you're in a state to be taking in these kind of teachings. Sounds like you got a lot of shit to work through. Start there instead of trying to figure out the fundamentals of reality. 

I'm sure you have a lot of objections and confusions, but awakening is the only way you'll truly understand. Your ideas of imaginary and real are not the same as it is to an awakened person. When we take on teachings as beliefs and not from direct experience, the teaching immediately becomes distorted. Your understanding of Leo's teachings is not what he is trying to say. It's only a pointer to it. This is a huge source of suffering. 

And even if we were given the truth, you seemed inclined to deny it. I wonder why that is? Truth will not baby your survival needs. This is a huge hurdle people struggle with. Whether you are ok with it or not, will not change what reality is. What it always has and will be. 

There's a reason ignorance is bliss. While the truth can set you free, it is not without its own challenges. You must be prepared to give up life as you once knew it and radically accept what is. 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Shadowraix

[Baotrader]

@Gsk Both Awakening and Leo's work are not suitable for most people. Leo's work can be dangerous for the people who are too incompetent but always deem themselves as the most competent in the world. 
Honestly, I suggest you seek a doctor. You show a sign of having a psychosis