White Privilege

[ravlondon]

Does white privilege exist?  (socially, culturally, institutionally etc.) 

What are your opinions? 

 

[Chakra Lion]

Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

White privilege is just another instigating word to draw a reaction and create separation. For sure there are advantages to being a white person in a society that has stood under the control of white people. Black Privilege exists in the eyes of a white person in South Africa. Jewish Privilege in Israel, Muslim Privilege in Saudi Arabia, even White Catholic-Christian Privilege in some places. 

Its good to point out an unbalance of rights or services, especially if it is unfairly directed towards certain individuals. No Soul should feel disadvantaged. But grouping hundreds of millions of individuals into a two word 'truth' is very dangerous. This is normal warfare tactic. You begin to view the enemy as inhumane, like an animal, or a devil. This was the case in Rwanda where the Houthis publicly called the Tutsi people pigs.

We cannot raise the world to prosperity if we have to take prosperity from certain people. To come to together, we have to come together. 

[Preety_India]

Depends on culture. 

Maybe in places where racism is given a pass. Redneck places. 

But elsewhere it's really very liberal and globalist. Cosmopolitan. There you can't expect white privilege because there are organizations that protect rights of minorities as well. 

In some places white privilege is a real phenomenon. 

In others its just an illusion.. 

 

[SOUL]

Social 'privilege' is a cognitive bias shared by enough of a populace that it creates a dynamic in society where there is accepted different treatment of different groups. It doesn't have to rise to be written into law for it to effectively act as 'institutional', either.

It takes a sufficiently 'awakened' populace to transcend this discriminatory behavior among it's different groups in all forms and currently it doesn't seem like there are very many places in the world where this exists let alone is probable to happen.

Edited March 2, 2020 by SOUL

[RareGodzilla]

Obviously a rich black man is more privileged than a poor white person, and vice versa.

It's all about socio-economic factors. Just being white doesn't help shit. In my opinion identity politics while they hold some truth are a major distraction from the real problems caused by neo-liberal politics. 

 

[Milos Uzelac]

I think this term primarily got traction in the first world developed Western world (e.i. The U.S., Canada, and Western European countries with ties to history colonialism and a pronounced segment of the population being first or second generational migrants from undeveloped or developing countries) political, historical and socio-economic context. I also think it I read somewhere long ago can't remember the site or the article (correct if I am mistaken and if you can link me an article) got widespread public attention and got traction as a term in public discourse by the efforts of Black Lives Matter activists and founders (a lot of the former Black Panther Party members) and by the activism and speeches of prominent black left-wing intellectuals such as Cornel West. And it was primarily aimed at raising awareness of disproportionate discriminatory targeting and police brutality directed towards black people for a petty non-violent crime much more so then the dominant white population (regardless of class position) for the same crime and they argued it was because of the existence of a deeply ingrained tradition of institutionalized racial prejudice and stereotypes in the law-enforcement on the basis of skin color and the remnants of that tradition kept in its past historical role and conduct of that sub-system in the past in American politics hence the term white privilege in terms of unequal law-enforcement conduct and treatment of different ethnic and racial groups. And also in the judicial systems rulings on petty crime sentencing (most pronounced being drug possession) being unequal and discriminatory towards poor black people much more so than whites giving them some times unreasonable multiple life sentence (oftentimes life sentences to poor black teenagers and adolescent youth) for non-violent crimes such as illegal drug or gun possession and also the penitentiary system in the U.S. being disproportionately more filled with blacks and other minority groups more so than whites for decades now (some describing it as neo-slavery due to exploitation and striping the rights of black prisoners by private firms in state prisons and the rising amount of private prisons that pay prisoners almost nothing for virtually free labor that they do in them many of them for decades).

Also, this term is some times also used on a systematic level globally in my opinion too as a lens to view how the history of imperialism, colonialism, and racism amounted in the unequal wealth distribution and possession in majority Western white countries even today and the a much bigger slice of the populace there having much more potential advantages of that centuries ahead wealth accumulation and industrial development much more so than developing and undeveloped majority brown and black nations on which sweat's and back's was it gradually built and shipped and concentrated in those Western white nations - so white privilege in a regard to the accumulated and existing remnants historical privilege of opportunity in Western majority-white industrial nations to inherited lane of opportunity and better standard of living in them by means of colonialism and imperialism (or as the author Domenic Losurdo and critic of classical liberalism put it democracy for the '' master races'' on a planetary scale).

It's a divisive and ''warfare-like" term for a populace, and also consensus status quo politicians and their business allies, that's oblivious and not mature enough in terms of honestly looking and educating themselves more on the truth of the history of their countries and how they got to their current position and being fearful of peer pressure and public consequence for their status and even job status for holding and declaring without fear such opinions and facts. As with any term that holds some water and truth around it and sums up advocation and calls for fundamental social changes in the world, in that regard, there is a lot of resistance, fear, and denial around it.

My opinion based on some research around it.

[Emerald]

Yes. The non-white communities in America and elsewhere are still feeling the effects of Colonialism. 

The black community deals with generational poverty that's a hold-over of not being able to accrue wealth like white people, due to a ripple effect stemming from Colonialism and slavery, to segregation, to redlining, gentrification, institutionalized racist policies and unconscious biases that proliferate through society. It has also been studied that, when there's a job application that has a black-sounding name it's less likely to get a call-back then a job application that has a white-sounding name... even if it's the same exact application. 

Also, schools in America are funded by property taxes. So, the poorest schools with the fewest resources are located in minority communities. And the wealthiest schools with the most resources are located in upper class mostly-white neighborhoods.

The Latino community is also hit from many of these same racist forces. Native Americans are barely around anymore because of the stealing of their land and mass genocide of their people. Native Americans are actually a really small group... despite the fact that they are Native to America. And they're still living on reservations... of which many are poor ghettos. 

And the infant mortality rate for people of color is higher than for white people. 

For White people, we get to walk around mostly not thinking about race. Situations that pertain to our race rarely even come up to the point where it feels really awkward to us if it does. We are thought of as "race neutral"... which is the biggest privilege of all. It means that we'll have representation in the media and the actions of one white person won't be used to define the whole group. We are also less likely to be poor per capita compared to those in marginalized communities.

And we are unlikely to be profiled based upon race, even if we're just as likely to commit the same crimes... like smoking marijuana.

But White defaultism is the biggest White Privilege.

 

[Raphael]

It clearly exists and it creates more racism in less developed countries.

Some white people go to poor countries because they think their life will be better and easier than in Europe or North America which is the case as the cost of living are much lower in these countries so they easily have access to many things that are not accessible to locals. At the same time, many locals prefer to do business with white people because they can charge them higher for housing and some other stuff, but it pisses off the rest of the local population as it raises prices for them and makes their life even more difficult. While looking for an apartment in my own country, I literally saw ads that were reserved only to European people as the local population earns a lot less money and are financially less stable.

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, RareGodzilla said:

Just being white doesn't help shit.

It does and many people in less developed countries also see white people as a superior race and act differently with them. There have been many cases of begpacking in Asia (young European people who travel in poorer countries without money and fund their trip by begging in the streets where the local population earns a lot less money than them).

https://thetab.com/uk/2017/04/11/backpackers-begging-money-streets-se-asia-epitome-entitled-white-privilege-37352

 

I don't think it would work the same way if they were poor black people from Africa.

[Apparition of Jack]

It exists, but I personally feel one of the problems with it is simply a matter of language - saying that White Privilege exists is accurate, but a lot of people will respond negatively to the phrase, because they don't understand what it actually means and they have will become defensive claiming that they don't experience privilege in much of their own lives, which would be accurate for a lot of them (for instance, being poor.) I prefer the term "privilege of Whiteness", since rather than saying some immutable thing about you (being white) is privileged, rather one of the factors that you possess (having whiteness) is privileged, which is a much less controversial thing to accept.

White Privilege - or Privilege of Whiteness - is the phenomenon that when stripped of all other elements (class, health, etc.), someone with whiteness will be unfairly advantaged over someone with blackness, or someone of colour, and so on. Yes, a poor, working class white person might not feel privileged in their day-to-day life of poverty and financial stress, but that white person is far less likely to have a negative interaction with a police offer than the exact same person if instead they were black, for instance. Of course, many white people aren't aware of this, and due to self-bias assume that their cordial interactions with police officers are the "norm" for everybody else, so they will not accept that they get treated better than others based on one aspect of their being.

Of course, the problem with getting too caught up in white privilege dynamics is that, if not met with Yellow-level integral thinking, it can become an ideology unto itself, and people can build up whole worldviews around taking down white privilege and seeing every interaction through that specific lens (when another lens may be more useful), and can create an "us vs. them" mentality. For instance, it's true that Bill Gates benefited from white privilege in his quest to become super wealthy and develop a revolutionary technology company - (would Microsoft have taken off if it was headed by a couple of black or Latino college students instead? Perhaps not, and even less likely so during the early days of the 80s and 90s when it was being founded) - but does that mean that every bit of hard work and personal insight that Bill Gates used in order to manifest Microsoft is now discredited because he had this one particular area of unfair advantage? I would say no. Bill Gates is still a visionary in his own right, ignoring the race he was born into.

Honestly it's a complex subject, and I don't want to dismiss the very real concerns that non-white people have with it. It's still a very real phenomena and it does create a lot of social injustice that doesn't otherwise have to exist. Being aware that exists and and taking conscious steps to counter-act it is very beneficial, but it doesn't have to become an all-encompassing worldview too. There are greater dynamics in society, politics, economics, etc. than just whiteness vs. non-whiteness, but it is still an important one that has to be considered.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify, the solution to solving it is, as with most other things in life, increasing consciousness and cultivating Love / Truth / Awareness and so on. As you grow and develop in consciousness, you will begin to identify with more and more of the world, and you will begin to recognise that any benefits or injustices other people experience due to their race are intimately tied with your own well-being. From that period onwards, the dynamics of privilege will become increasingly untenable to you and you will want to do whatever you can to help elevate society beyond them.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Apparition of Jack

[Yog]

If used very carefully, in conjunction with other perspectives from which some are out of the post modern branch, than yes, it can be a useful lens, one that can help see things. Its better to see it as majority-group-privilege, or group-in power-privilege I think. This saves one from getting locked inside this premade box.

The reason I feel the concept itself gets into questionable waters is because 99% of the time, we see it being used in a religious way as an ideological weapon, mostly by integral green. When adopted by T1s mind it behaves as racism 2.0, a nuanced form of discriminating based on low-rez snapshots, you can also away with it, so there is that.  There is nothing wrong with the concept per se, its the way it is most commonly used.

So in this sense I find the question quite valid.
T2 will grapple with it in a far more graceful manner.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Yog

[Rilles]

its completely relative, stop thinking so narrowly

[Milos Uzelac]

@Emerald Thanks for articulating that more precisely than I did, giving more concrete examples in which other parts of the political and economic system does the dynamic of white privilege play out on a structural level of keeping and advancing systems of racial inequality and of course sharing your first-hand experiences from your country in giving credibility to the fact in contrast to my theoretical ramblings and rants about white privilege just from youtube research, articles, stats, and books that I read 

@Apparition of Jack I would just add to your excellent sum-up, the origin of the term Whiteness and what was meant by it at least when I first heard it. 

I heard the term first being used by social scientists to explain the dynamic of a sort of phenomena among white European (or from other majority-white countries) immigrants of developed first world countries such as Canada or America, who before migrating had a recent political history of ethnic animosity (such as Ukrainians and Russians, Croats and Serbs, Irish and English, German and French, etc.) or stereotypes among their former countries neighboring ethnicities,  forgetting that pre-existing dynamic that existed before among themselves when migrating to a multiracial and multiethnic developed country and rallying up together and forming communities on the basis of their shared skin pigmentation against different looking racial and ethnic minorities in those developed countries and effectively infusing themselves with the domestic majority white populace's treatment and relationship towards those ethnic and racial minorities in the country they migrated to.

 

This phenomenon was particularly observed in the past migrational cycles of white European immigrants that arrived in the first and second waves of migration to the USA and Canada in the 19th and 20th century but also is still observed to be present as a new group identity creation among newcomers among white immigrants and as a newly formed and often observed to be spontaneous racial solidarity to contrast solidarity of other present minority groups. The historian of black people in the USA, Canada, and in other Western colonial nations Gerald Horne talks more accurately, eloquently and precisely than me about this phenomenon and existing migration dynamic.

@Raphael thanks for another excellent example, I forgot about that pernicious dynamic in developing countries and thanks for sharing, had no clue about the scale of that begpacking practice in developing Asian countries and elsewhere.

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Milos Uzelac

[PlayTheGame]

Yes definitely , in all places in the world.

In the USA its the most potent of course, because of the history of slavery.

all other western countries colonized the rest of the world for 500 years.

this history doesn’t just dissolve in a few years.

most of the white privilege happens subconsciously of course. You don’t have to be racist to subconsciously have prejudice.

But in the next 500 years we have to make sure all cultures/ethnicities are equal.

[Roy]

All privilege exists for almost every kind of person.

Being good looking will grant you privileges in a society that values appearance.

Being an outstanding Muslim will grant you privileges among a group of Imams in an Islamic country.

Being white will grant you privileges in a majority white society.

Privilege can exist for anyone just by having an identity or certain qualities. People's tribal affinity causes them to act biased outsiders and favorable towards those most like them.

People keep trying to politicize this it will only go away when people transcend identity and expand their circle of love.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Roy

[nahtanoj]

This is one of the best videos on white privilege, but there are other privileges in other cultures that mirror white privilege. 

[Derek White]

In India the idea of beauty is being white. Men and women risk their lives to bleach their skin. Calling someone dark or black is considered an insult, and white a compliment. Indians are constantly bombarded by not-so-subtle ads, movies, songs, and cultural ideals about white superiority. Being white gives you such power and confidence there. If you happen to have colored eyes and hair on top of being white then you would be considered so beautiful that you would counter-intuitively be at a risk of getting molested. 

This idea of beauty predates colonialism. It is there since ancient times. Probably due to light skin being associated with indoor nobility and dark being associated with tanned laborers who work under the sun. This probably got exaggerated due to a rigid casteism and foreign invaders who were light skinned.

Many Indian women and men, but especially women, would kill to look like white women because of racism. 

Sad but true.

[Hansu]

I think the idea of white privilege has the problem of poor imago.

White privilege exists in the ways described in this thread, but the reason why I think there is such high opposition to it is that first of all its name implies that white skin gives you privileges. One of the other major implications I have seen around this idea is that due to being white skinned, your ancestors thus took part in the colonialism. Go tell that to an Estonian, I dare you. Tell them how their white privileged asses colonialised Sweden and Russia and swam in resources while doing so, their country flourishing in the immense riches of others, I double dare you.

I think the idea of white privilege needs a major revamp, the biggest of all being given a better name if we want more people to accept it. Second of all, more recognizion around the fact that not all white's are created equal, but there are vast differences in the cultures. This one might be a difficult truth for a white American tho, lol.

Otherwise its never going to be looked closer by those who resent the absurd brain farts some people have created around the idea.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Hansu

[RareGodzilla]

On 03/03/2020 at 6:30 AM, Raphael said:

It does and many people in less developed countries also see white people as a superior race and act differently with them. There have been many cases of begpacking in Asia (young European people who travel in poorer countries without money and fund their trip by begging in the streets where the local population earns a lot less money than them).

 

Try doing the same experiment with an old white bum that reeks of piss, you likely won't get the same result. 

[outlandish]

On 3/4/2020 at 5:14 PM, Roy said:

Being white will grant you privileges in a majority white society.

Being white will grant you privileges in any society.

I've spent years and years living outside of my home (majority white) country, and this is extremely apparent. In east Asia, south Asia, South America, Central America, North America, Europe, from the poorest ghettos in Brazil to the poshest clubs in London, to airport security, to emergency room admissions it has never been to my disadvantage to be white. It would definitely be a different story if I was black, latino, asian, south asian.. the world has a very long way to go before it's an even playing field.