how can you be concious if you are made of conciousness?

[Mongu9719]

I, in my normal everyday state, am conscious that I exist and of all the colours and sounds in my visual field. How does this concious experience, differ from “conciousness”. What exactly does it mean to raise my level of conciousness if “I” don’t have any conciousness to raise? If everything is made from conciousness how can “I” become concious of it, if “I” exist within conciousness and am made of it. If “I” am not concious but exist within conciousness , then I am no different that a physical object which also exists within conciousness. Then how can I become concious of something if I didn’t have any conciousness to being with? 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Mongu9719

[Leo Gura]

You are consciousness itself and consciousness has infinite capacity for self-awareness precisely because it is itself.

[Mongu9719]

@Leo Gura then does a rock have an infinite capacity for self-awareness? It is also made of conciousness.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Mongu9719

[steenadrianmr]

@Mongu9719

10 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

I, in my normal everyday state, am conscious that I exist and of all the colours and sounds in my visual field. How does this concious experience, differ from “conciousness”. What exactly does it mean to raise my level of conciousness if “I” don’t have any conciousness to raise? If everything is made from conciousness how can “I” become concious of it, if “I” exist within conciousness and am made of it. If “I” am not concious but exist within conciousness , then I am no different that a physical object which also exists within conciousness. Then how can I become concious of something if I didn’t have any conciousness to being with? 

I have NEVER had any mystical experience that I have noticed, however I imagine some wise dude on a mountain saying ''Who is this I?'' or something. Perhaps something along the lines of ''Your level of consciousness? Who is this you?''

I have no idea what I am talking about, but to ME, with NO experience, again, it seems you are seperating yourself.

I also imagine someone saying that you cannot become conscious of everything being made from consciousness, however you can peel off the layers of person-hood and belief of stories about this someone in your head (your experience).

 

Again, I just pulled this straight from the depths of my ass and should not be followed blindly - at all. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by steenadrianmr

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Leo Gura then does a rock have an infinite capacity for self-awareness? It is also made of conciousness.

The difference between you and a rock is imaginary.

[Mongu9719]

@Leo Gura didn’t you say that there were relative levels of conciousness? That’s what spiral dynamics is right? But also everything is conciousness. Do these relative levels only exist because I think I’m a human being? If I erased that distinction then I would realise that everything is conciousness? I think I’m finally begin to grasp what you have been saying for so long.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Mongu9719

[Forestluv]

@Mongu9719 The term "consciousness" is often used in various relative ways. For example, we could say that someone in a coma is "unconscious" and that I am aware (conscious) right now as I type on my computer. One could also talk about a "social consciousness" or a "collective consciousness". As well, we could talk in terms of an "absolute consciousness" which is everything. A lot of confusion arises when someone is unaware or doesn't understand a term. For example, if I am using the term "consciousness" in the context of a collective consciousness - that will appear odd and confusing to someone that has not contemplated or had direct experience with collective consciousness. They are thinking in terms of personal consciousness - since that is all they are aware of.

SD is a theory that uses context of conscious "levels". This incorporates both personal consciousness of an individual and social consciousness of groups of people. Yet it does not use absolute consciousness. (it does somewhat in the Turquoise stage). 

[Mongu9719]

@Serotoninluv isint “personal conciousness” just an aspect of the “absolute conciousness”? So making that distinction is actually false but useful nonetheless. We can transcend our self-illusory “personal conciousness” and become one with the “absolute conciousness” because ultimately everything collapses into one. Right?

[Leo Gura]

23 minutes ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Leo Gura didn’t you say that there were relative levels of conciousness? That’s what spiral dynamics is right? But also everything is conciousness. Do these relative levels only exist because I think I’m a human being? If I erased that distinction then I would realise that everything is conciousness? I think I’m finally begin to grasp what you have been saying for so long.

Spiral Dynamics isn't really a measure of consciousness, it's a measure of mental development. Ultimately this is a minor and existentially insigificant thing. Awakening does not map to Spiral Dynamics at all. SD is just a handy model for understanding average humans.

Consciousness is the sense of awakening in a totally different league.

Look around you. Can you point to anything which isn't consciousness? Try.

[Mongu9719]

@Leo Gura hmm ok. I guess there is no point in trying to intellectualise  this beyond a certain point. Might as well  just ask the machine elves to show me or start doing the enlightenment work. 

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Leo Gura then does a rock have an infinite capacity for self-awareness? It is also made of conciousness.

I would focus more on becoming directly conscious that you are Universal Mind rather than conceptualizing on whether a rock has an ego or a sense of self or a survival instinct.   Realizing that you as God are imagining all of it and simultaneously are the whole of it will kinda render these types of questions moot.  

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Mongu9719 said:

Might as well  just ask the machine elves to show me

The machine elves are your own mind.

[Mongu9719]

@Inliytened1 @Leo Gura can you as God, imagine what being a rock is like? Can you limit yourself if you wanted to? People become all kinds of things on salvia. One guy become Beyoncé’s birth certificate. Can we manufacture a psychedelic which creates the experience of you being Beyoncé’s birth certificate? We can target neurotransmitters in the brain which can create the experience of being that. Could we also create a psychedelic in which you can speed up time for yourself and see future events? Can we create one in which I reverse time and become 10 years old? Are the possibilities truly endless or can our stream of conciousness only be altered in specific ways? Are there limits to what a psychedelic can do?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Serotoninluv isint “personal conciousness” just an aspect of the “absolute conciousness”? So making that distinction is actually false but useful nonetheless. We can transcend our self-illusory “personal conciousness” and become one with the “absolute conciousness” because ultimately everything collapses into one. Right?

I think I'm using the term "consciousness" too promiscuously here and it's causing confusion. Phrases like "personal, collective and absolute consciousness" are things I'm imagining and don't seem to be helpful in this context. 

A better term for SD might be "cognitive development".  For example, a mind at stage yellow has reached a stage of cognitive development in which it understands relativity - yet a mind at stage orange hasn't reached this stage of cognitive development and would not understand relativity.

In terms of consciousness, you seem to be using the term in the context of human awareness. For example "how could a rock be conscious? It doesn't have self awareness like I do". 

Another way of looking at it would be "ISness". Everything is ISness, right? Point to something that isn't ISness. . . . Now imagine being that ISness. . . 

[Mongu9719]

@Serotoninluv so self-awareness is NOT conciousness?

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Inliytened1 @Leo Gura can you as God, imagine what being a rock is like? Can you limit yourself if you wanted to? People become all kinds of things on salvia. One guy become Beyoncé’s birth certificate. Can we manufacture a psychedelic which creates the experience of you being Beyoncé’s birth certificate? We can target neurotransmitters in the brain which can create the experience of being that. Could we also create a psychedelic in which you can speed up time for yourself and see future events? Can we create one in which I reverse time and become 10 years old? Are the possibilities truly endless or can our stream of conciousness only be altered in specific ways? Are there limits to what a psychedelic can do?

Consciousness is unlimited.

You don't need to create any new psychedelics. The ones which exist are more than enough to blow your mind.

[Mongu9719]

@Leo Gura not for personal development but for practical purposes. For example, if my neighbor is killed and they need to do an investigation of the crime. The police could take a psychedelic and travel back in time to the moment the crime took place to identify the suspects. We could also predict future natural disasters or terrorist attacks.  As you said, science will make more progress in 1 decade with psychedelics than any other field. I don’t see why it can’t be applied practically.

[Forestluv]

16 minutes ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Serotoninluv so self-awareness is NOT conciousness?

I think this is a great question to contemplate. What if the belief that "consciousness is self-awareness" was a limiting belief? What if I let go of this belief?

Many minds want grounding for security. They want to define things in concrete terms. "If consciousness isn't limited to self-awareness, what is it?". Then the mind can be obsessed with defining it and creating grounding. My mind was very much like this, however it's become much more fluid and comfortable with groundlessness. This is part of the magnificence.

If consciousness isn't limited to self-awareness, that is a game-changer. That opens up a whole new world of exploration. This can change one's relationship to reality. Imagine walking through nature without being restricted to "consciousness is self-awareness". All sorts of new things will arise. It's can be so juicy. Go explore with a fluid mind, without pressure of figuring it out. You needn't be attached to any idea that pops up. It's freedom. 

And on a sidenote: Being able to explore these existential questions is a luxury few people have. 99% of the world's population doesn't have this luxury because they are consumed with surviving. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Mongu9719 said:

@Leo Gura not for personal development but for practical purposes. For example, if my neighbor is killed and they need to do an investigation of the crime. The police could take a psychedelic and travel back in time to the moment the crime took place to identify the suspects. We could also predict future natural disasters or terrorist attacks.  As you said, science will make more progress in 1 decade with psychedelics than any other field. I don’t see why it can’t be applied practically.

You are getting lost in fantasies.

Awaken first. Then you can speculate.

[Mongu9719]

@Serotoninluv so your answer is that conciousness is not self-awareness? Then what is self-awareness? What is conciousness? My brain hurts. Think I’m gonna rest for a bit.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Mongu9719