Are You Enlightened?

[VeganAwake]

17 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

I understand that. But please describe "fully conscious." It's a misnomer. The Dial is infinite, and your consciousness of God deepens and broadens all the time. At what point do you say, "now you're fully conscious."? I'm baffled that something you recently described as a complex set of dials has now been reduced to a binary on/off. From my experience and others, it's clear that the dial analogy is much more accurate. 

It sounds like you are caught in a sneaky trick of the ego.

If the ego can get you to believe the seeking never ends, it knows it will never die...

You'll be constantly perpetuating the the belief that there is a separate individual here that needs to find something out there... the answer is just around the next corner the ego tells you... the problem is there's nothing to find and the corners never end.

All you can do is get off the hamster wheel recognize you were always whole and complete and never needed to seek anything...

What you are seeking is the end of seeking and it's what you are already ❤

[TheAvatarState]

1 minute ago, VeganAwake said:

You'll be constantly perpetuating the the belief that there is a separate individual here that needs to find something out there.

No I'm not. I specifically pointed that out as a trap. 

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

All you can do is get off the hamster wheel recognize you were always whole and complete and never needed to seek anything...

What you are seeking is the end of seeking and it's what you are already ❤

Yes ???

[VeganAwake]

5 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

Yes ???

Sorry I may have not read all of your comments thoroughly enough ❤

I really find this guy authentic and truthful... has messages always resonate with me. You may be aware of all this already but they're great reminders ?

 

[Inliytened1]

You guys are overthinking this way too much.  When you meditate in the present moment long enough...the observer and the observed merge into one and the present moment is all there is. And you are it.

When consciousness becomes conscious that it is consciousness - boom.  Pure Consciousness.   Thats why language can't grapple with this.

Your whole body will tremble and shake and you will have to surrender to become Infinity.  It feels like its tearing the body in half.    The Love is too much.  It drowns you and comes on like a tornado.    Its an orgasm x billion billion billion to infinity and its total.

When this happens to you all of this talk kinda dissipates.   You are never the same after that.

[VeganAwake]

22 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You guys are overthinking this way too much.  When you meditate in the present moment long enough...the observer and the observed merge into one and the present moment is all there is. And you are it.

Totally agree ❤

What happened here was a falling away of the Observer. 

There was nothing left to merge... The observed or THIS was all that remained ?

 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Totally agree ❤

What happened here was a falling away of the Observer. 

There was nothing left to merge... The observed or THIS was all that remained ?

 

Yes exactly.  

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

I understand that. But please describe "fully conscious." It's a misnomer. The Dial is infinite, and your consciousness of God deepens and broadens all the time. At what point do you say, "now you're fully conscious."? I'm baffled that something you recently described as a complex set of dials has now been reduced to a binary on/off. From my experience and others, it's clear that the dial analogy is much more accurate. 

It is an infinite dial, but there are points on the dial where God awakens to itself as God.

God realization is a distinct event. Either it is, or is not occuring. This point delineates awakeness vs asleepness. But even so, there are many degrees to God's self-awareness. Hence many levels of awakeness.

Almost no one has reached the highest levels. Not even your favorite enlightened teachers. I consider most of them asleep.

[TheAvatarState]

40 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is an infinite dial, but there are points on the dial where God awakens to itself as God.

God realization is a distinct event. Either it is, or is not occuring. This point delineates awakeness vs asleepness. But even so, there are many degrees to God's self-awareness. Hence many levels of awakeness.

Almost no one has reached the highest levels. Not even your favorite enlightened teachers. I consider most of them asleep.

Thank you for the response. So does this one Satori event mark you forever, in your view? Or can you be awake one moment and asleep the next? Here's the thing, an experience like that changes you forever... you'll never forget. However, you may not be directly conscious of it throughout all your waking life. So does this mean the "enlightened" person becomes "un-enlightened" many more times throughout life? 

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, TheAvatarState said:

Thank you for the response. So does this one Satori event mark you forever, in your view?

Forever is relative concept.

Quote

Or can you be awake one moment and asleep the next?

Yes

Quote

Here's the thing, an experience like that changes you forever... you'll never forget. However, you may not be directly conscious of it throughout all your waking life.

Yes

Quote

So does this mean the "enlightened" person becomes "un-enlightened" many more times throughout life? 

Depends on many factors.

The very notion of enlightenment as temporary or permement is dualistic and untennable since time is imaginary. From God's POV it makes no difference if you awaken for 1 minute or 100 years. As a human you may not like only being awake for 1 minute, but that's not God's problem.

You are only as conscious as your current state of consciousness. It could change any second.

There are states of awakening so high that you could not function as a human from such a state. You could not walk or eat because you'd be too conscious. Life is impossible in such states. So in practice awakening gets tuned down to functional levels or the person would soon die. The highest states are temporary for such practical reasons.

It is not practical to have your car's gas pedal permanently pressed down at max.

[Inliytened1]

@TheAvatarState If you think about it everything in this realm is relative.  That would include enlightenment too - because all form is finite and impermanent.    You aren't walking around in a non-dual state 24/7 - you couldn't function like that.  As a matter of fact - its very hard to function being directly conscious that everything is One - that is also a mystical state.  I don't mean knowing it conceptually - i mean being it.   Being directly conscious of it is Being (or being it)   because direct consciousness removes the "someone to be conscious of something".  

Its like when you are looking directly at your hand and acknowledging it the hand is actual.  When behind your back it is conceptual.

Ofcourse if you stare at it long enough you and the hand become one and you are actuality.

So afterwards you are conscious that you are It but you are not being it - (the hand that was actual is now behind your back) -  until the next time you are pure Being.    But the hand was actual to you - it is no longer based only on concept or someone telling you there is a hand.   

Furthermore you are now aware that this right here is Infinity.  That everything here is just pure infinity and you are conscious of that in the back of your mind always.  You could forget for an hour or two.  But you will temember it again - until this form is done.    The beauty of reality is magnified.

And there is, with this, a permanent expansion of consciousness from your starting point.  And this can be infinitely expanded upon.   So this is a sort of non-dual awareness which is not a non-dual state but an awareness that everthing is non-dual not stemming from a belief or concept.

So if you consider enlightenment a pure non-dual, mystical state then yes it is not permanent until the expiration of the "physical" body that you are imagining yourself as, and the exiting of this dream to become the dreamer.  If you consider it having died and then being reborn and becoming conscious of the nature of reality and that you are God - then it is permanent..hehe..until it's not (until you forget again)

  

[TheAvatarState]

22 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

I really find this guy authentic and truthful... has messages always resonate with me. You may be aware of all this already but they're great reminders

It was a great reminder, thank you. Whatever you believe the ego to be, that is a bundle of concepts and images you created to give meaning and form to the formless. While I believe it can be useful in some contexts, ultimately it isn't real. And probably in most contexts, it's more of a hindrance than an aid. It's possible to create an enemy out of thin air. 

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are states of awakening so high that you could not function as a human from such a state. You could not walk or eat because you'd be too conscious. Life is impossible in such states. So in practice awakening gets tuned down to functional levels or the person would soon die. The highest states are temporary for such practical reasons.

Yes indeed. Even "practical" states of Awakening can make life difficult in many ways, such as hypersensitivity, overanalyzing, difficulty in relating with normal people, etc. I'm sure that will get better with time.

16 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

afterwards you are conscious that you are It but you are not being it - (the hand that was actual is now behind your back) -  until the next time you are pure Being.    But the hand was actual to you - it is no longer based only on concept or someone telling you there is a hand.   

Furthermore you are now aware that this right here is Infinity.  That everything here is just pure infinity and you are conscious of that in the back of your mind always.  You could forget for an hour or two.  But you will temember it again - until this form is done.    The beauty of reality is magnified.

I'm not "being" it at all times, but I have the knowledge in the back of my mind. I often bring it to the foreground, where I'm aware of the beauty and infinity of the present experience, and this knowing stems from direct experience. It is not a belief or dogma. I guess I'm about as awake as is practical.

16 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

So if you consider enlightenment a pure non-dual, mystical state then yes it is not permanent until the expiration of the "physical" body that you are imagining yourself as, and the exiting of this dream to become the dreamer.  If you consider it having died and then being reborn and becoming conscious of the nature of reality and that you are God - then it is permanent..hehe..until it's not (until you forget again

This is the answer I was after, thank you. I still have an issue calling myself or others "enlightened," but now I recognize I fit the description. At least this particular and relative description.

Going back to the original quote of the thread from Kryon, I actually resonate with that more. It describes a further realization of nonduality, one that is impossible to actualize without being awake. It's like the union of "enlightenment" and unconditional Love and acceptance for all of Creation. I believe that to be a much more potent description, and something I feel necessary to work towards. 

[Inliytened1]

24 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

This is the answer I was after, thank you. I still have an issue calling myself or others "enlightened," but now I recognize I fit the description. At least this particular and relative description.

Going back to the original quote of the thread from Kryon, I actually resonate with that more. It describes a further realization of nonduality, one that is impossible to actualize without being awake. It's like the union of "enlightenment" and unconditional Love and acceptance for all of Creation. I believe that to be a much more potent description, and something I feel necessary to work towards. 

That's a great quote and that is more about embodying God in your everyday life after becoming conscious that you are God and realizing that the Absolute has no bias and only Love and acceptance for what is.   So yes that is how to truly embody and actualize your enlightenment.

And yeah as far as bringing it to the foreground (your awakening) yes its easy to go about our daily life and forget about the metaphysics.  But then we are able to bring that back to the forefront and be conscious of it.  Because when you arent thinking about a thing it really doesn't exist for you.  So i kinda left out the hours thru our daily grind where we temporarily forget.  It doesn't make you less awake by my 2nd definition because you can bring it back to your direct consciousness.   (Until you can't hehe)

 

[TheAvatarState]

32 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

(Until you can't hehe

We've already died, brother. We're just chilling in the dreamscape  conscious that we are one dreamer. Enlightenment is lucidity. 

Two strangers passing in the street, by chance to separate glances meet.

I am you and what I see is me. 

[Inliytened1]

18 minutes ago, TheAvatarState said:

We've already died, brother. We're just chilling in the dreamscape  conscious that we are one dreamer. Enlightenment is lucidity. 

Two strangers passing in the street, by chance to separate glances meet.

I am you and what I see is me. 

Indeed ??

[Martin123]

On 28/02/2020 at 1:11 AM, Leo Gura said:

Just no.

It was created by people who actually seriously awoke.

There is a clear difference between those who awoke and those who have not. Stop muddling the waters by saying everyone is woke.

While there certainly is a difference between awakened and unawakened beings, it has nothing to do with the term enlightenment, it is more about how the awakening changes the way that person moves through and navigates life. Enlightenment isn’t actually about knowing yourself as god. If you still have the need to know yourself as god, or proclaim it in any way, it is a rather immature and unintegrated stage of awakening that can be a huge sticking point.

 

Thats for a couple of reasons.

firstly, only something ‘other than god’ would need to proclaim itself as being god. Why would god need to say ‘I’m god’,.. I mean... should I write it in my resume now that I’m enlightened? Do I get a free parking spot at selected restaurants that says ‘reserved for god’?

Secondly, If you’re proclaiming that you are god, you can only say that to god. I mean think about it, why would you need to say ‘I am god’ and by the way, I won’t even say that you’re speaking to yourself, because that’s another trap the ego likes to hide in, but it just simply implies that you consider the person you’re proclaiming it to something other than god. Such energy can only perpetuate arrogance and entitlement, which are sticking points of ego, not enlightenment.

 

tldr: saying ‘I am god’ is the most unenlightened thing you can ever say, you’d be probably much more spiritually aligned by sharing about how much you love bagels, as opposed to how deeply you know yourself as the divine.

 

ps: bagels are amazing I haven’t come from an American culture and didn’t know how much I was missing out.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Martin123 said:

firstly, only something ‘other than god’ would need to proclaim itself as being god. Why would god need to say ‘I’m god’,.. I mean... should I write it in my resume now that I’m enlightened? Do I get a free parking spot at selected restaurants that says ‘reserved for god’?

Secondly, If you’re proclaiming that you are god, you can only say that to god. I mean think about it, why would you need to say ‘I am god’ and by the way, I won’t even say that you’re speaking to yourself, because that’s another trap the ego likes to hide in, but it just simply implies that you consider the person you’re proclaiming it to something other than god. Such energy can only perpetuate arrogance and entitlement, which are sticking points of ego, not enlightenment.

tldr: saying ‘I am god’ is the most unenlightened thing you can ever say

You are speaking nonsense.

You haven't realized what it means to be God. You are playing games.

When you finally realize you are God, you will shout it from the top of your lungs. And all of your logic will fly out the window.

You need to say "I am God" precisely because you're not conscious that you are. False humility is not a virtue here.

[Martin123]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You are speaking nonsense.

You haven't realized what it means to be God. You are playing games.

That’s a rather interesting interpretation of my words. Thanks for sharing.

[Martin123]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When you finally realize you are God, you will shout it from the top of your lungs. And all of your logic will fly out the window.

That would be a rather unproductive way to spend my day.

I think what you are referring to is the existential high and the relief of being completely free and boundless, which is a common occurrence on psychedelic trips.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but it’s kinda impossible to function  like that.. The reason for that is that no one is supposed to function in that state. That’s why we have bodies that we inhabit. Not to be boundless, expansive and free. That’s what you were before you had a body. 
 

It wouldn’t make sense for god to incarnate into a body just so it can go back into its completely boundless inifinitness. 
God is rather excited about being in a human body. It’s the tragedy of human conditioning that wants to be boundless as a way of escaping what they originally signed up for upon incarnation. Strangely enough, lasting and relieving boundlessness can then be felt fully while being completely grounded, and living out the joy of your every day life. It’s a paradox.

Its not really a state of enlightenment before you can take it back to the body, simply because it is motivated by a desire to move away from the dense feelings within the body. It’s an act of avoidance, over-use of the upper chakras and frying your 3rd eye and crown open, simply because safety to be fully embodied has not yet been found.

[VeganAwake]

It really boils down to recognizing there aren't any should or shouldn't's...

Every way is the great way... because it's what's happening.

The conditioned mind has all kinds of opinions/thoughts about this chosen way....

Whether you become identified with these thoughts makes all the difference...❤

 

[Martin123]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You need to say "I am God" precisely because you're not conscious that you are. False humility is not a virtue here.

Sorry Leo you keep adding things to your post it's a little confusing.
I think the phrase 'I am god' has a merit as a way of allowing a seeker to finally admit their innate oneness with the divine and giving them a break from thinking themselves to be anything else or separate from the juicy goodness of all of existence. The flipside of this is saying 'I am God' as a way of perpetuating separation and division. It just depends on the approach you take. Does the phrase 'I am god' bring more relaxation and sense of connection to be felt in your body, or does it build up more tension within your mind and less attention in the body...