Projections, awakening and purification

[tsuki]

36 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Yes, but you've seen me in full force. Should I just let that go without judgment?

Is this happening right now, or are you imagining things about future? Does this worry help you stay aligned right now, or are you afraid of losing alignment in the future? How does "being aligned in the future" even work? Have you ever been aligned in the future?

Notice that when you were projecting full force, you were aligned as fuck, in stark contrast to when you were judging yourself for doing it later.

36 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The recent example of this was that I realized that I never stopped needing emotional support from my mother. When I awakened, that problem was fixed but I also consciously realized that I could never go to her again for emotional support for the real challenged I was facing, the ego backlash that came on the heels of a mystical experience or awakening.

Please write something more about "emotional support". Does it not feel good when she hugs you and tells you that everything is going to be okay? What other support do you need to distract yourself from the self-harm that your mind is doing by judging itself? You seem to want to be completely independent of others, as if others existed in the first place. You are consoling yourself when you ask your mother for consolation, it's YOUR decision to go there!

36 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I was alone. I mourned my real life relationships. I saw then that the connection I sought from them and always hoped to get would never be found. Out of the nonacceptance or that, or needing to integrate that over time I became reliant on other people here, projecting my need for emotional support on them. The need to be "seen" persisted, but now it was projected onto people who I thought of as awake, people here on the forum. 

All of that is a thought story. Here's an all-caps for you cause I know you love them:

OH LORD, MY GOD, PLEASE LET ME NEVER MAKE A MISTAKE EVER AGAIN BECAUSE MISTAKES ARE OBJECTIVE FACTS AND NOT ME, JUDGING MY PAST SELF FROM A WISER PERSPECTIVE THAT I INHABIT RIGHT NOW. I PROMISE THAT I WILL JUDGE MYSELF FOR THIS FOR WEEKS, SO PLEASE, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE PROTECT ME FROM MISTAKES SO THAT I WILL NEVER HAVE TO INFLICT HURT UNTO MYSELF AS A PUNISHMENT EVER AGAIN!  I AM HURTING MYSELF RIGHT NOW TO FEEL GOOD LATER AND I'M DOING THIS FOR YOU, GOD, MY LION, MY TRUE SELF, BECAUSE I LOVE YOU. YOU ARE THE ONLY RELATIONSHIP I CAN HAVE, SO I WILL RIP MY HEART OPEN AND GIVE IT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE SOOOOO MERCIFUL THAT YOU WANT ME TO SUFFER. 

Fuck, I had so much fun writing this, I hope that it shows.

Edited February 26, 2020 by tsuki

[mandyjw]

@tsuki

40 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Please write something more about "emotional support". Does it not feel good when she hugs you and tells you that everything is going to be okay? What other support do you need to distract yourself from the self-harm that your mind is doing by judging itself? You seem to want to be completely independent of others, as if others existed in the first place. You are consoling yourself when you ask your mother for consolation, it's YOUR decision to go there!

It does not feel good when I seek something outside me, not because it would be nice to have and for fun, but because I NEED it and am unfulfilled without it. It feels good to connect with others, to feel supported from others, but only when there is no need to do so.   

It's like if I have candy in the house, if my kids are happy when they sometimes get a piece of candy as a reward, that's great. But if more times than not they throw a fit because I say they can't have it then, if they have that sense of entitlement and everyone suffers for it, the candy goes in the trash. 

If you apply this metaphor to spirituality and relationships, there is great potential to learn, grow and work together. But if there's a whiny inner child who needs that connection, who projects all kinds of meanings and attachments onto it, the candy goes in the trash. 

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by mandyjw

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I have young kids and because of that responsibility I still require the support of my husband to responsibly use psychedelics, which I currently do not have. It's not a convenient time in my life to be going through this but it's happening anyway. 

 

Both. My wife and I support each other. That’s precisely why we do not require each other’s support (we already have it / it’s a given / relatively you might say, we made this commitment to each other). It’s honestly hard for me to even grasp the experience of putting her in a position where she feels she doesn’t have my unconditional support. But then again, I don’t require it. 

You might be assuming responsibility when this topic comes up in the household, rather than a more present, actual, response-ability. 

Calmly discuss, and play it all the way out. What exactly is the “problem”?

Our commitment is for life, not the fruit of that “other” tree. The wizard reveals the lion lyin.

 

“I'm finding it incredibly difficult to relate to people without them being a perfect mirror of all my hidden unconscious psychological stuff”

Wild how ‘right in front of us’ it is, no?

Ohhhh it came round again....The son of man can’t be the reason. 

[tsuki]

39 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

It does not feel good when I seek something outside me, not because it would be nice to have and for fun, but because I NEED it and am unfulfilled without it. It feels good to connect with others, to feel supported from others, but only when there is no need to do so.   

Looks like you're resisting your feelings of insecurity. I have that too, can't stand being low on the emotional scale.
Supposedly, fear, insecurity, jealousy, hatred and anger are all love, but I don't feel that. I can kind of see that they are simply saying that I'm far away from being myself, so I'm being lovingly guided back to alignment. My lack of acceptance of these emotions seems like trying to be something other than myself I guess, trying to take the steering wheel and become a different person, in accordance with my shoulds. It's like I already want to be there, complete, but not accepting directions from anybody, even myself. 

47 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

It's like if I have candy in the house, if my kids are happy when they sometimes get a piece of candy as a reward, that's great. But if more times than not they throw a fit because I say they can't have it then, if they have that sense of entitlement and everyone suffers for it, the candy goes in the trash. 

If you apply this metaphor to spirituality and relationships, there is great potential to learn, grow and work together. But if there's a whiny inner child who needs that connection, the candy goes in the trash. 

You do realize that the difference between the child that is being rewarded and the child that is entitled is entirely of your own making? Not to lecture you on raising your kids, just trying to get back to depriving yourself of contact and throwing it down the trash when you're feeling insecure.

[zeroISinfinity]

Oh response-ability OMG that's it. It was all for Nothing(oh you, yeah most amazing Nothing ever) .

 OMG every answer. Just OMG. Love Being so hard so fascinating. 

[mandyjw]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

You might be assuming responsibility when this topic comes up in the household, rather than a more present, actual, response-ability. 

How did I MISS that one??? 

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

Both. My wife and I support each other. That’s precisely why we do not require each other’s support (we already have it / it’s a given / relatively you might say, we made this commitment to each other). It’s honestly hard for me to even grasp the experience of putting her in a position where she feels she doesn’t have my unconditional support. But then again, I don’t require it. 

You might be assuming responsibility when this topic comes up in the household, rather than a more present, actual, response-ability. 

Calmly discuss, and play it all the way out. What exactly is the “problem”?

Our commitment is for life, not the fruit of that “other” tree. The wizard reveals the lion lyin.

“I'm finding it incredibly difficult to relate to people without them being a perfect mirror of all my hidden unconscious psychological stuff”

Wild how ‘right in front of us’ it is, no?

Ohhhh it came round again....The son of man can’t be the reason. 

 

The last time I brought it up, it really touched a nerve. He implied that he might call the cops on me himself if I dared, and wouldn't talk to me for days. I've been avoiding the discussion since, without giving that avoidance much thought, until now. I also got the sense from it at the time that things weren't what they seemed and maybe my motive was different than what I had first thought. When he asked me "why" I couldn't even give him a good answer. I eventually answered depression and anxiety because I thought he'd understand that but then he made suggestions to fix a problem that I was suffering from less at that time than ever before in my adult life. I'll try to discuss it again more sensibly and "presently". 

4 hours ago, tsuki said:

You do realize that the difference between the child that is being rewarded and the child that is entitled is entirely of your own making? Not to lecture you on raising your kids, just trying to get back to depriving yourself of contact and throwing it down the trash when you're feeling insecure.

I do see that, but the control implied in my own making is not as it seems either. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by mandyjw

[Nahm]

@mandyjw Praying for ya. ♥️

[mandyjw]

@Nahm Thanks! It turned out to be a really good conversation. He said that he didn't like how nonduality and spiritual teachers use their own language to speak about this stuff, and how you have to learn it before you know what they are speaking about. My first mistake is that day in, day out I read and immerse myself in this stuff and discuss it with him very little. Then I expect him to just come along with me only when I want his help with something. I compared the language to our understanding of Christianity and the Bible when were kids, specifically terms such as the "Holy Spirit". Then I tried to explain how communion was really a powerful nondual pointer, which he didn't get, but then told me that he was taught several different things about communion in church, including that if your heart wasn't quite right and you still took it, that God would strike you dead. And then I remembered that his upbringing was far, far different from mine, and how fear and control were so front and center for him. Then I realized that I've been a selfish jerk overlooking and under appreciating a lot of things.

Edited February 27, 2020 by mandyjw

[BETGR164128]

@mandyjw Im just curious, but isn't what you're saying a kind of solipsism? Solipsist have decided that there is no way to know anything outside of their own mind. I'm naturally solipsistic because I observed very carefully how nobody really understands what im trying to say, so over a long period of time I just couldn't help but come to the conclusion that everyone is just trapped in a mind , unable to get out , but they believe that what they are seeing and interacting with is an outside world. I believe in an outside world, so I'm not the extreme kind of Solipsist, but I just can't see a time where any real communication ever took place. 

[mandyjw]

@BETGR164128 Everything is happening for you, BUT there's no you. It's a radical way of taking responsibility, yet, there's no doing and no you.  To speak of it sounds very paradoxical. We often like to blame other people or circumstances for our problems, but life is our greatest teacher if we are willing to see the lessons it gives us as opportunities that come from a place of love. The alternative is to be stuck in survival mode and to continue to see the world as an outside threat. It's the negatively perceived outside world and the limited self that creates fear, only ever existing in our perception, which is illusory. 

[BETGR164128]

@mandyjw @mandyjwok, but there is an outside world?

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, BETGR164128 said:

@mandyjw @mandyjwok, but there is an outside world?

No!

There is only your mind.

But your mind is identical to the whole world and other people.

You imagine the entire universe because you are God pretending to be human. You are one. There cannot be anything outside of you.

All outsides are inside your mind.

[zeroISinfinity]

Omg this is becoming interesting the MIND, love it. Absolutelly True. 

Wait until him say that all actions, interactions, activities, talk etc are all fundamentally illusory. Regarding their spiritual quest too. Just a play. 

Nothing happened ever. ?

?

Edited February 28, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[zeroISinfinity]

@mandyjw There is  also Absolutelly zero distance btw you and me who is drinking coffee and laughing. ?

Hard to beleive does it but it very True. 

Nothing exists outside of you because you are Infinite and you always was forever. 

Oh I so love zen mindbending stick, yeah let them scratch their little non existant heads. 

But you  said you like "that dirty thing" more. Yeah but to miss mindfucking myself in same process, way to fun.

You need to have kind of a wierd taste for this I guess. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by zeroISinfinity

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, BETGR164128 said:

@mandyjw @mandyjwok, but there is an outside world?

It's all your own beautiful artistic expression of love. If you look at enough art, a lot of it seems pretty fucked up. The world is such a work of art, that it's a piece of work. That's the beauty in it.

You are one with it all, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the beauty of a flower or a sunset or another with your heart and soul. Your soul is the One of it all. We are One, no inner, no outer. 

@zeroISinfinity  I think you're right about that, like I said above, "work of art, piece of work".