About Leo promoting psychedelics

[ttm]

28 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

im interested to hear, give an example of a psychedilic induced enlightened person?

Maybe Martin W. Ball?

[luckieluuke]

53 minutes ago, ttm said:

Maybe Martin W. Ball?

As close as you´d get id say apart from Terrance. In my eyes I don´t feel He is enlightened being. But I can be wrong ofcourse, I gotta admit I havent read enough about him or his material to be sure. But enough to not equal him to people such as I mentioned.

[ttm]

4 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

As close as you´d get id say apart from Terrance. In my eyes I don´t feel He is enlightened being. But I can be wrong ofcourse, I gotta admit I havent read enough about him or his material to be sure. But enough to not equal him to people such as I mentioned.

I'm not sure what that first sentence means. And If you don't feel Martin's enlightened, then I'm not sure how do you define enlightenment, you include in it much more than direct understanding of what reality and self is? Of course his contribution to society is totally different than those who you mentioned, but I'm not sure if it's "measure of enlightenment". Martin has this straight-forward "stories and rituals are bs"-style, which may offend people who are attached to their stories about reality - which is of course almost everyone. But what I have read from him, I have no doubt that he knows what he's talking about. But yes, I can also be wrong, I don't have direct access to his experiences. And even if I wasn't wrong, he is nevertheless only person who came to mind.

Yeah, whatever may be the case with Martin, I agree with your previous post. 

[luckieluuke]

So if I understand correctly you put Martin Ball as a fully enlightened being such as Ramana Maharishi and the like? If so I can understand your position better. 
My question is still, if psychedelics are what so many of you praise them to be, should not more people get enlightened by them? I mean it´s not for a lack of trying is it? Sure more people are on a sober path and that counts for something, but not all. Martin might be the strongest case if he is enlightened, and lets say he is, should there not be more? You can´t rest the entire case upon his shoulders.

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

If these these RC drugs are as powerful as most here seem to get behind Leo and claim, shouldnt we have see some psychedelic-induced enlightened beings / mystics by now?

Really im interested to hear, give an example of a psychedilic induced enlightened person?

My question is still, if psychedelics are what so many of you praise them to be, should not more people get enlightened by them?

Many examples come to mind, yet I don't know if they qualify on your criteria of "psychedelic-induced" and "enlightened person". You haven't stated what meaning you are giving these terms. 

[ttm]

28 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

So if I understand correctly you put Martin Ball as a fully enlightened being such as Ramana Maharishi and the like? If so I can understand your position better.

What do you mean by "my position"? I do not recognize having any "position" here. I read a question "can you give me an example of a psychedelic induced enlightened person" and answered that perhaps him. I'm not sure what "fully enlightened" means, or how it differs from "partially enlightened". If you answered my questions about what do you mean with "enlightenment", I could understand your question better.

But, I'm not one of those here who get behind Leo and promote psychedelics as an instant magic pill for enlightenment, if you refer to that with "my position".

28 minutes ago, luckieluuke said:

My question is still, if psychedelics are what so many of you praise them to be, should not more people get enlightened by them? I mean it´s not for a lack of trying is it? Sure more people are on a sober path and that counts for something, but not all. Martin might be the strongest case if he is enlightened, and lets say he is, should there not be more? You can´t rest the entire case upon his shoulders.

Yeah, I personally agree to what you said in your first post: psychedelics are tools, not magic pill. Even if they produce non-dual experiences, without other work (and/or amazing luck?) these experiences very quickly degrade to stories and believes.

Although, there could be reasons, why there does not seem to be more enlightened psychedelic people, even if psychedelics were a magic pill. For example, the illegality of drugs and general attitude to them can be too much of a barrier for many people to start advocating them.

Edited February 24, 2020 by ttm

[Gneh Onebar]

21 hours ago, luckieluuke said:

Really im interested to hear, give an example of a psychedilic induced enlightened person?

Christopher M. Bache seems pretty 'enlightening' to me.  

Edited February 25, 2020 by Gneh Onebar