Criticism from loved ones

[Mongu9719]

I have faced a lot of criticism from friends and family. I was at one of my friends houses discussing enlightenment and he kicked me out because he is very rational and didn’t accept what I was saying. He is a neuroscience major and refused to believe that the mind is capable of achieving such states. My girlfriend said that I have changed since 1 year ago and I am a completely different person now whom she doesn’t recognise. I don’t know how to reconcile this. I can’t fall asleep again, but I also have trouble relating to people now. The only like minded person I’ve found is my yoga teacher who had gone through a similar experience where his friends stopped talking to him after he began his spiritual path and escaped the American culture of excess and hedonism. I’m wondering where I can find like minded people and how I can deal with this.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mongu9719

[Mongu9719]

Sorry I was trying to write a different post. But I accidentally edited this one.

[Nahm]

@Mongu9719 Can you give some details, some examples of what was said, what’s going on?

[Mongu9719]

@Nahm well she said that I was brainwashed by Leo and that what I said doesn’t make any sense. My friend told me that I was delusional and got mad when I said that India was in stage blue of the spiral. He claims that India is at stage green and the model is stupid. We were also talking about the movie interstellar and he told me that the scene where Anne Hathaway talks about love as fundamental to the universe and not merely a human concept was the stupidest thing ever.   I also talked about enlightenment and he started talking really aggressively stating  that Marilyn Manson claims he was enlightened but he was a mass murderer. He also showed me this clip from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

He said that Timothy Leary sold psychedelics to people promising enlightenment but it was a disaster. He then proceeded to shake my hand, look at me like I was insane and kicked me out of the house.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mongu9719

[Nahm]

@Mongu9719 Thanks. How’d you feel? I mean, obviously that wasn’t a great experience, but were you able to feel any nuances, emotionally speaking? If you’re willing, can you name two or three emotions that you are experiencing? I’m wondering if the interaction left a trail of breadcrumbs, some unrest in feeling or unsettled energy, which can now be understood, to ‘extract the juice’ of this, such that there is no reoccurrence of this scene, and no discord in your vibration. 

[Mongu9719]

@Nahm I feel like I’m constantly doubting myself. Why if Leo is wrong? What if all of this is in my head? What if im going to lose my mind? Everything i learned shattered my world and expectations in a positive way, but I always second guess myself. My yoga teacher told me that when did 5meo that there was another guy with him that completely lost his mind. He also told me that I’m highschool he had a friend who did acid and had to be put on lithium for the rest of his life and was never the same again. Yet even after hearing all of this, I am still drawn to the actualised.org. It makes me wonder if I’m actually brainwashed, and I’m just convincing myself that I’m not. Leo did gain my trust, but all the comments underneath his awakening video say that he’s completely lost it. My mind is filled with doubt but at the same time I don’t plan on quitting anytime soon. I do feel isolated and I’m trying to find people irl that understand it. I may do an Isha yoga program to meet like minded individuals cause I can’t seem to find people like that in the Matrix.

[Nahm]

@Mongu9719 Appreciating the vulnerability in expression there. I feel like you have a lot of clarity with what’s ‘going on with you’, but are wrapping it all around the one thing which just won’t resonate, if you will. Do you think / feel, there’s a chance that you are hearing from teachers who are communicating from a place of ‘having gone full circle’ on some things...but it doesn’t jive with you? As in, some full circle revelations, when interpreted at the ‘half circle’ so to speak, just, feel the opposite of what the teacher’s intention appears to be?  Is this making any sense?

[Mongu9719]

@Nahm it’s true that I don’t fully understand everything Leo is saying, but I guess my concern is that somewhere along this path I might lose it. One bad trip and it’s over for me. Leo speaks from a place where he has already gone through everything but in my mind he is a pioneer and his ideas will not be accepted for a long time or well understood.  Because you could say this is uncharted territory, there are inherent risks, and so many ways to delude yourself. Now I’m looking into RASA and reiki. I’m going to be forking over a lot of money and time for this. Ultimately it’s up to me to learn the traps, but it makes me question how many on the forum are brainwashed by Leo vs how many are actually Being open-minded. I see so many posts on the forum filled with dogmatic ideas and even Leo’s vocabulary. I guess Leo forewarned this happening . I’m just scared of becoming like those people because I know how easily my mind gets influenced. They use the same phrases and words that he does and dismiss those with countering views. I have also observed that quite a few people on this forum are pretty mature and actually doing their own research independently. I think disagreeing with Leo is a good thing. I am learning from many different sources now, trying to counter any effects of brainwashing I may have accidentally had while watching the videos.

[Nahm]

@Mongu9719

This is going to initially sound odd, but how do you feel when reading these statements? Some might not resonate, and even feel off-putting. If there’s any “triggering” experience, what is the emotion which arises? 

 

”I’ve never actually faced any criticism from friends & family. We just missed, in the heat of a moment, that where each of us is at on our path, is precisely where we “should” be...it is what is...maybe we expected otherwise, and maybe we kinda of ‘paid the price’ for that misunderstanding”.

”Maybe I’m taking where someone else is at, and where people I know are at, and where I’m at...and expecting things to be other than they are, as if there was a “right way”, a “right teaching”, a “correct objective view”, etc. This leaves me feeling some kind of worry, as if I need to figure out which is the “right”, or “rational way”, or “correct way”. 

“I don’t want to suffer like the people I keep coming across in my life”.

“I don’t want to talk about over thinking, nor self referential thinking. I don’t like when people talk about that”.

“I notice sometimes I am so moved & inspired, that I end up frustrated when others don’t accept my understanding”.

”I sometimes notice that I see people through a lens of sameness, but also sometimes through a lens of labeling them, or pigeonholing them, or, differences”.

”My understanding of why stage blue is often offended by stage green, is really clear. I enjoy the feeling of harmony I experience with my understanding of spiral dynamics. I’m so glad I took the time to better understand myself and others, and how we are all connected”.

”Occasionally, I expect people to change to be like me, but then I remember we’re all the same, and we choose different thoughts, and I have a hearty relieving laugh about it all”.

”No one will ever be able to relate to awakening, who has not yet awakened”.

”I relish in putting how I feel, before anything I think or say. The effortlessness of life has been revealed to me, and it is pure joy”.

”If I had the last brownie on earth, and couldn’t share it with anyone - I’d eat it, and enjoy the heck out of it, with a big smile on my face”. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aaron p]

You can literally choose to know what to do in every situation. You can just go "I choose to know what to do" and boom. You are the holy spirit.

[Mongu9719]

@Nahm

 

”I’ve never actually faced any criticism from friends & family. We just missed, in the heat of a moment, that where each of us is at on our path, is precisely where we “should” be...it is what is...maybe we expected otherwise, and maybe we kinda of ‘paid the price’ for that misunderstanding”.

i feel anger. I feel that I have been criticised unfairly by my narcissistic parents.  

”Maybe I’m taking where someone else is at, and where people I know are at, and where I’m at...and expecting things to be other than they are, as if there was a “right way”, a “right teaching”, a “correct objective view”, etc. This leaves me feeling some kind of worry, as if I need to figure out which is the “right”, or “rational way”, or “correct way”. 
Yes I definitely feel my mind trying to moralise things. I feel pressure to follow Leo’s teachings.

“I don’t want to suffer like the people I keep coming across in my life. It is a fate worse than death to be ordinary and live a consumeristic lifestyle. For me it is the definition of hell.

determination. All the people around me I see are blind to the ways they hurt themselves.

“I don’t want to talk about over thinking, nor self referential thinking. I don’t like when people talk about that”.

i overthink a lot myself. So I guess the emotion I feel is denial. I want to stop overthinking but I feel like my mind is stuck in a permanent state of overthinking. It is a mechanism to cope with my problems. 

“I notice sometimes I am so moved & inspired, that I end up frustrated when others don’t accept my understanding”.

I don’t feel frustrated by it. But I do feel dejected for a brief moment. I accept that they won’t understand because the understanding only occurred for me because of a few lucky circumstances and the right mindset.

”I sometimes notice that I see people through a lens of sameness, but also sometimes through a lens of labeling them, or pigeonholing them, or, differences”.

yes, I often get a sense of superiority when I look at people around me. I see them as the same, caught in the matrix of daily human life, even though I was there not long ago.

”My understanding of why stage blue is often offended by stage green, is really clear. I enjoy the feeling of harmony I experience with my understanding of spiral dynamics. I’m so glad I took the time to better understand myself and others, and how we are all connected”.

yes. I feel a sense of relief that I discovered spiral dynamics. I have a sense of clarity that I’ve never experienced before and it is beautiful. It gives me structure as well because I have an end goal of moving up the spiral .

”Occasionally, I expect people to change to be like me, but then I remember we’re all the same, and we choose different thoughts, and I have a hearty relieving laugh about it all”.

i don’t recognise people as the same. I tend to put them down in my mind. It’s something I need to work on. Fundamentally I know we are all the same, but I often forget.

”No one will ever be able to relate to awakening, who has not yet awakened”.

i haven’t awakened, so I can’t really say how I feel about this. But I think I would tend to agree.

”I relish in putting how I feel, before anything I think or say. The effortlessness of life has been revealed to me, and it is pure joy”.

i am still dominated by my mind but over the past year I have really let go of expressing things in ideas and often frame things in terms of emotions, yet because of past trauma, I have not fully opened up yet.

”If I had the last brownie on earth, and couldn’t share it with anyone - I’d eat it, and enjoy the heck out of it, with a big smile on my face”. 

I would feel guilty and feel sad that the other person could not share it with me. I woud give them the whole thing.

Edited February 22, 2020 by Mongu9719

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

i feel anger. I feel that I have been criticised unfairly by my narcissistic parents.  

That. Is. Great. Can you relax, take some deeps breaths, and ‘get down in there’, into the nuance of feeling...and...

Bring to mind, the sheer shittyness of their behaviors, and how it made you feel....and just kind of note how the feeling itself...feels?

Then, consider the perspective “I also have some skin in this, I’m judging them too” ...and just note, in feeling, if the feeling feels better, more releasing / relieving.

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

“I don’t want to suffer like the people I keep coming across in my life. It is a fate worse than death to be ordinary and live a consumeristic lifestyle. For me it is the definition of hell.

determination. All the people around me I see are blind to the ways they hurt themselves.

Note, this , what I’m proposing here In this “exercise” if you will, has nothing whatsoever to do with any current thoughts, logic,  perspectives, or beliefs. Only looking for the feeling. Just trying to feel the feeling, a bit more nuanced.

How does this feel.... “I’m afraid of suffering like I see so many people doing”

Compared to (only the feeling) of this.... “What if I’ve misunderstood suffering, just a bit, and the nature of it, is that we each create it, or don’t, for ourselves? What if my seeing their suffering, is actually my keeping of my own judgement of them going, which is, “my” suffering?”

In terms of determination, in living the life I want to live...is the way I’m looking at people...resistance...or inspiring me?

And ....”Maybe, I hold a belief of what death is, but have never actually seen, heard, anything of it whatsoever. Maybe there’s some fear of death at play here that I could inspect if I wanted to. It might even have something to do with ending up in arguments, when love is, well, love”.

A contemplatable question suggestion....”What’s the feeling difference, between ‘being true to myself’, and needing to be understood?” “Maybe, just maybe, I actually just would enjoy being understood...and maybe, my friends and family have more in common with me already, than I’ve noticed lately”. And maybe even...” Damn. I can really appreciate the forgiving, accepting, loving side of each of them. Maybe nobody’s perfect after all.”

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

I overthink a lot myself. So I guess the emotion I feel is denial. I want to stop overthinking but I feel like my mind is stuck in a permanent state of overthinking. It is a mechanism to cope with my problems.

When you re-read what you wrote there now...how does it compare, in feeling...to this...

”Maybe me and them are actually both suffering from the same thing...overthinking, and self referential thinking patterns.””Maybe I’m feeling a resonating with them, and it’s triggering me, because I don’t like how I feel about my own place on the path.” “Maybe I can take a few minutes, and write about the thought patterns and emotions, and I’ll get a better understanding. This might bring a richness to not only living, but relationships, which I’ve never experienced before. Could be exciting, much more than anything anyone should fear, or suffer over”

Again, though we are reduced to words in this communication format, keep in mind, this is not an appeal to reason, or thought...only looking for how it feels. 

Does living change, when I put how I feel , before what thought I choose to share, or put any focus on?

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

I don’t feel frustrated by it. But I do feel dejected for a brief moment. I accept that they won’t understand because the understanding only occurred for me because of a few lucky circumstances and the right mindset

Likewise.... “maybe, I could take that a step deeper...and inspect....what is “luck”, really? Maybe there’s more to this “reality thing”. Maybe the feeling, is telling me something about my belief in luck, rather than that which I am wanting, and believe I ‘got’, via, “luck”. Maybe, if I see that, I’ll feel more at peace with any given moment...because I’ve seen it’s not about luck at all”

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

yes. I feel a sense of relief that I discovered spiral dynamics. I have a sense of clarity that I’ve never experienced before and it is beautiful. It gives me structure as well because I have an end goal of moving up the spiral .

Just on a “technical note”...keep in mind, that model is not demonstrated in “levels”, but rather, with a spiral which contains no separations. 

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

I don’t recognise people as the same. I tend to put them down in my mind. It’s something I need to work on. Fundamentally I know we are all the same, but I often forget.

Not recognizing that everyone has a fundamental sameness, underlying all thinking...can result in me overthinking, in a “what’s wrong with me, why aren’t I like Jim, or Mike, or Pete, or, why aren’t they seeing things like me?” way. When I do recognize the simple fact that we’re all human, that we all share that most fundamental situation...then I begin to see that it is what thoughts one is choosing, and the momentum of having done so...which makes us appear to be so different. “That could be where I’m at on my path...and it would make sense, at least of the feeling, which has been arising in my social interactions.” Maybe there is much wisdom, a Wholeness found, in balancing my recognition of sameness, as well as uniqueness. That, or God fucked this whole thing up. But, do I really want eight billion Mongu’s here? Maybe all these “differences”, in how my peeps see things...shit...maybe, that’s a Beauty I can unveil.

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

yes, I often get a sense of superiority when I look at people around me. I see them as the same, caught in the matrix of daily human life, even though I was there not long ago.

“Maybe I can ‘put a pin in that one’. I am liberating, and it is Good, real Good. I’ll reserve thoughts on how other people relate to my awakening for now...just kinda, take that off my plate for now, so I can rock this me thing.”     ....comparatively...how’s the feeing of that?

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

yes. I feel a sense of relief that I discovered spiral dynamics. I have a sense of clarity that I’ve never experienced before and it is beautiful. It gives me structure as well because I have an end goal of moving up the spiral .

Delightful. Maybe there’s a stage on the path yet to be walked, the direct experience of what spiritual ego is. “Insight - delicious, I’ll take em all day long, yes please. .....wait...what.....why’d they stop? What happened? Where’d that magic feeling go?!  

The feeling, literally goes to our heads, and gets dualized / conceptualized in thought. Just notice these lessons in life, by recognizing the feelin of receiving insight, and the feeling of claiming it as mine. It will set you free there. If that seems ‘out there’...notice there’s One breath, right now. The walls do not separate the space in actuality, the walls in in The Space. We’re all breathing that same One Space...and as fast as that space is inhaled - boom, dualized by a pair of lungs, and furthermore by the divided hemispheres of the brain.  The sneakiness can never ‘be beat’. It is always right under, right above, and right behind, our own nose.

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

i am still dominated by my mind but over the past year I have really let go of expressing things in ideas and often frame things in terms of emotions, yet because of past trauma, I have not fully opened up yet.

How does that one thought, which arises only now....feel....now?

What healing for the body have you experienced thus far on your path?

What are six or seven you’ll go try this year?

(You will never “beat” the sneakiness)  Which is to say, there will never be a human being who feels good, while focusing on a thought which does not feel good to them.

5 hours ago, Mongu9719 said:

I would feel guilty and feel sad that the other person could not share it with me. I woud give them the whole thing

Ever flown on an airplane?